Vinland Saga

[Amarantine]

I was expecting a breather and possibly budget episode this week, but instead we got one of the best looking (that lighting in the throne room and those backgrounds at the end) and most well directed episodes yet. It really is the sign of a superb show and story when even the build-up episodes are this thrilling and satisfying to watch.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Canute is probably one of the few people who could channel rebelling against god in a positive way...

I think this episode already showed a bit of a dark side to Canute though. The previous episode might have given the impression he was sort of a second coming of Thors, what with Thorkell seeing a similar glimmer in his eyes, but it's clear he's going about things in a different manner than Thors, who I can't imagine saying something like "I'm willing to turn into a demon if that's what it takes to do it."

Originally Posted by Frontier

I take it Askeladd really does not like his mother being called a slave .

Remember back in episode 8, when Askeladd memorably said "Everyone is a slave to something" and many viewers wondered what he himself was a slave to? Well, the face he made when the king insulted his mother and flatly pointed out he was born from a violated slave certainly gives a hint as to what makes the man tick.

Originally Posted by Frontier

That was a much more pleasant sendoff between Askeladd and Atli then I was expecting. I mean, the rebellion was over, Askeladd got what he wanted, and Atli's brother has practically reverted to being a child, so there really isn't much point in holding a grudge. Askeladd may have hated working with his men because of who they were, but giving Atli some gold and making him swear off the sword showed some surprising sentiment on his part. Poor Bjorn though .

Holding a grudge is Thorfinn's specialty. The other members of the Askeladd band, including the man himself, aren't as prone to that. And I would say Askeladd's charitable gesture towards Atli was very much in line with his character, who has always respected men unwilling or unsuited to be true vikings, like Thors and now Canute. And yeah, the news of Bjorn's seemingly imminent death packed a punch, seeing as he was the only man fighting out of loyalty for another in a conflict where everyone was out looking for themselves. Askeladd sure cut a lonesome figure at the end, with only Thorfinn, the boy that wants to kill him, remaining as his follower. A good time for a fresh start indeed.

[Arya]

Well, well, great episode. I felt the tension during the whole confrontation. So, Askeladd apparently found someone on par with him! He needs to pay double attention from now on. Things won't go as "easy" as before, where, despite the dire situations he got into, he always had the control of the situation (until almost the very end when things of course got out of hand even for him).

I'm not surprised Askeladd reacted that way when the King willingly provoked him, if there's something that he care that's his mother. All his flashbacks had her in it, the first one with him carrying her on his young shoulders.
For the same reason him pledging loyalty to Canute I think had a 90% of sincerity in it. His mother tell him about Artorius, in a sense here we have witnessed the realization of what Askeladd's mother wished for his son (in the same vein as Thors wished a different path for Thorfinn, but that will happen prolly at the end of the story).

I won't comment on Canute switching from one person to another in blink of an eye, just because it worked and I bought it, ahah (well the story needed him at that time so I'm fine with it).

Meanwhile Thorfinn keeps being in the sidelines.

[Guardian Enzo]

I would guess Leif’s arrival is going to thrust Thorfinn back into the spotlight pretty quickly.

[Arya]

Yeah, Askeladd told Canute they have to stay still for now, so likely we'll be too, on that front. Giving room to the story to expand Thorfinn situation.

[Applehell]

Yeah, plot-wise seems like thing are coming to ahead and the events at York is gonna be a major turning point for everyone involved. The status quo with Canute, Askeladd and Thorfinn will most likely change. Especially for Thorfinn who is no perosnally invested the outcome between England and Demark's war.

[Arya]

Well, this seems to be the perfect spot for the secret regarding Thors death to be revealed to Thorfinn. Specifically Floki's role in it.
We didn't saw much about Leif, but he seemed sharp enough to have discovered the truth behind it.
This would bind Thorfinn to Canute and his schemes and put Askeladd to a new and even "paternal" light.
Try to say it to Thorkell and then Canute's loyal followers counter would rise of one Thorkell.

[Kanon]

That was an eventful episode.

It shows how obsessed Thorfinn is that he didn't even ask Leif about his mother and sister. Nothing will change for him until Askeladd dies, he's too far gone. He's lived most of his life with the sole goal of killing him.

Bjorn's final moments were poignant. It turns out he didn't know Askeladd quite as well as he thought, as the latter did consider him a friend. The only one he ever had.

[Frontier]

When they need to get a female body double because they couldn't find a guy who looked like you...that poor woman though. At least Canute felt for her .

Leif finally gets his heartfelt reunion with Thorfinn after all this time, albeit after he just stabbed a guy to death right in front of Leif. Which I guess sums up how much Thorfinn's changed since they last met .

It's pretty telling that Thorfinn cares more about Vinland then about what happened to his family after he left. He can dream about this perfect, free, settlement, but he can't deal with his mother and sister, because dealing with them would mean giving up on his revenge or acknowledging he had a life before this. A life he basically abandoned for revenge .

I think we see the perfect contrast between Thorfinn's idea of a warrior and Askeladd and Bjorn's. Thorfinn fights for revenge, but neither Askeladd nor Bjorn hold any real ill will towards the people they've fought, nor those that have wounded them. I don't know if Akseladd or Bjorn embody the true warrior ideal Thors did, but I do believe that a true warrior does not live for revenge .

At least Thorfinn apparently had enough respect for Bjorn to let him have first dibs on fighting Askeladd .

I figured Bjorn would want to go out fighting, and who better then the one man he respected the most .

I think Bjorn hit the nail on the head that Askeladd, for as joyful as he acts at times, is extremely isolated and lonely. He hated the people he called friends and allies that he was with for years, he hates himself for the man he's become, and he's never been truly open or honest with anyone. It's a tough life for anyone to live .

I honestly feel Askeladd did regard Bjorn as his only friend, at least as much as he could see anyone in that way. Bjorn may have participated in the same cruel acts Askeladd was disgusted by in the Danes (even when he helped perpetrate them), but never maliciously or excessively. And Bjorn was always loyal and steadfast, even when everyone else practically gave up on Askeladd. Askeladd's interaction with Bjorn always did feel genuine and open, the only other characters I feel share that right being current Canute and, to some degree, Thorfinn. Killing Bjorn, while what he wanted, may have gutted Askeladd as much as it did Bjorn...

"I'll play with you." Yeah, I'm not feeling for Thorfinn in this duel. Still seems like Askeladd is not taking him seriously .

[Wandering Soul]

Thorfinn's reunion with Leif really makes it clear how much the young boy has lost his way. The fact that he doesn't even bother asking about his mother and sister is all the indication you need that everything Thorfinn has done since Thor's death has been a mistake.

Bjorn got what he wanted as he died in battle while having Askeladd acknowledge him as a friend. Though I wonder to what extent Askeladd could see someone as a friend.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I think we see the perfect contrast between Thorfinn's idea of a warrior and Askeladd and Bjorn's. Thorfinn fights for revenge, but neither Askeladd nor Bjorn hold any real ill will towards the people they've fought, nor those that have wounded them. I don't know if Akseladd or Bjorn embody the true warrior ideal Thors did, but I do believe that a true warrior does not live for revenge .

Thors' ideal of a warrior is someone who doesn't need a sword, as in, someone who doesn't kill (and remember he didn't kill a single one of Askeladd's men). So they definitely don't embody it.

[Amarantine]

I've been waiting to see Askeladd and Bjorn's "duel" animated since the anime was announced, as I always found it to be one of the highlights of this arc and indeed the whole manga. And thankfully it didn't disappoint. That's as powerful a death scene as they come.

For over a decade, Bjorn was a brave and fearless warrior who followed Askeladd to any hellish battlefield, and yet, in all that time, he never once had the courage to be upfront about what he really yearned for deep down. He longed for a true friendship with Askeladd, but the latter keeps everyone at arm’s length, and never once opened himself up to his right-hand man about what really goes on in his heart. And Bjorn was never able to bridge that gap between them while he lived. They’re vikings, after all, fierce warriors who would probably find such a conversation too awkward and embarrassing to engage in. But when your life is fading before your eyes, that all becomes irrelevant. And that is what makes this scene so tragic — over ten years together, but Bjorn could only tell Askeladd how he felt in his dying moments, when there was nothing left to hold on to.

By the standards of the era, Bjorn was a brave and accomplished warrior surely headed for glory in Valhalla, but in truth, he was just a lonely man who, at the end of it all, simply and desperately wanted to hear that the person he had spent his life beside considered him a true friend. It's no wonder that when he asked Askeladd, "Aren't you lonely?" you could really feel the utter loneliness in his voice (Yasumoto Hiroki's performance was heart-wrenching).

And of course, that very line, “Isn’t it lonely? Rejecting everything like that?” can be applied just as well to Thorfinn, who has also pushed everything and everyone away, as we just saw earlier in his reunion with Leif. This episode did a really good job in highlighting how emotionally isolated both Askeladd and Thorfinn are, which adds even greater meaning to their upcoming duel.

Originally Posted by Frontier

"I'll play with you." Yeah, I'm not feeling for Thorfinn in this duel. Still seems like Askeladd is not taking him seriously .

Those words seem playful, but the tone of his voice is more telling. This was Askeladd in their last duel in episode 8. Now it's different. Yukimura-sensei, the mangaka, put it best on his twitter, in his reactions at the end of the episode: "Askeladd in a bad mood is scary."

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

The fact that he doesn't even bother asking about his mother and sister is all the indication you need that everything Thorfinn has done since Thor's death has been a mistake.

Speaking of his mother and sister, in the anime they only showed Leif talking about Helga, but in the manga he also said that Ylva had three children now. Not sure why they skipped that here.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Bjorn got what he wanted as he died in battle while having Askeladd acknowledge him as a friend. Though I wonder to what extent Askeladd could see someone as a friend.

I do believe the scene gives enough leeway for it to be ambiguous to a certain extent whether Askeladd was voicing his true feelings or was merely telling a merciful lie to a dying man who had always been loyal to him. But for now, I would say the best evidence of Askeladd’s sincerity (besides his panic after failing to give Bjorn a quick, painless death with his first strike) is the impact that mercy killing Bjorn seems to have had on his mood, which Thorfinn himself seems to be able to sense, hence his troubled and hesitant expression at the end.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Amarantine

Those words seem playful, but the tone of his voice is more telling. This was Askeladd in their last duel in episode 8. Now it's different. Yukimura-sensei, the mangaka, put it best on his twitter, in his reactions at the end of the episode: "Askeladd in a bad mood is scary."

Yeah, Askeladd sounds like he's tired of Thorfinn's @$%* .

Speaking of his mother and sister, in the anime they only showed Leif talking about Helga, but in the manga he also said that Ylva had three children now. Not sure why they skipped that here.

If I had to speculate...

Spoiler:

They either want it to be a surprise when they adapt the Part where Thorfinn returns home, or maybe it's part of the anime original changes to the ending. Or they condensed the line down for pacing

I do believe the scene gives enough leeway for it to be ambiguous to a certain extent whether Askeladd was voicing his true feelings or was merely telling a merciful lie to a dying man who had always been loyal to him. But for now, I would say the best evidence of Askeladd’s sincerity (besides his panic after failing to give Bjorn a quick, painless death with his first strike) is the impact that mercy killing Bjorn seems to have had on his mood, which Thorfinn himself seems to be able to sense, hence his troubled and hesitant expression at the end.

Maybe Askeladd doesn't believe he has or can have any friends, but I think he did care about Bjorn to some extent, otherwise his reaction to killing him or how he interacted with Bjorn across the entire series wouldn't be as pronounced as they are.

So even if it wasn't completely sincere (I personally believe it was)...I think it was sincere enough. Especially to where he would even say it, when he didn't have to.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Maybe Askeladd doesn't believe he has or can have any friends, but I think he did care about Bjorn to some extent, otherwise his reaction to killing him or how he interacted with Bjorn across the entire series wouldn't be as pronounced as they are.

Indeed. Best viking bromance.

Originally Posted by Frontier

So even if it wasn't completely sincere (I personally believe it was)...I think it was sincere enough. Especially to where he would even say it, when he didn't have to.

Yep. He definitely seemed hesitant to say anything at first, hence his silence throughout Bjorn's entire speech, but I believe that was Askeladd struggling to admit to his own humanity and vulnerable innermost feelings after having spent his whole life shutting everyone out and loathing the world around him (and, as Bjorn hints, possibly even himself). But when Bjorn cornered him with that final dying and desperate plea, Askeladd couldn't deny him or himself any longer, and finally spoke what was in his heart for once.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Askeladd is one hell of a character but he's getting old and even though he never quite had people he truly bonded with, he has lost his entourage down to all but Thorfinn. I don't think he's long for the world given that the King seems super wary of him and Floki surely wants him out of the picture to save his dirty secrets. Perhaps the King's way of punishing the Prince won't be to take Thorkell away from him but Askeladd. I don't think Askeladd's getting some land to rule and peacefully die at though. If the King can come up with evidence that Askeladd faked the assassination attempt, he's done. I hope Askeladd has a plan for if / when the King turns on him and not the prince. The King is smart and he will surely recognize that he doesn't have to go for the Prince right away if he can take out Askeladd first.

[Guardian Enzo]

Not a manga reader, but my take is that Thorfinn doesn's ask Leif about his family because in his mind, his betrayal of Thors' ideals is so total that he can never face them again. All that's left for him after his mythical revenge is complete is the new world, which offers a theoretical clean slate.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Not a manga reader, but my take is that Thorfinn doesn's ask Leif about his family because in his mind, his betrayal of Thors' ideals is so total that he can never face them again. All that's left for him after his mythical revenge is complete is the new world, which offers a theoretical clean slate.

I think it is somewhat that he can't acknowledge his family or the life he used to have because it would mean acknowledging that he's wasted his life hunting for revenge when he knows it isn't what Thors would've wanted.

Vinland is the only thing he can look to as a point of salvation in the current rut he's in.

[Dark Wing]

It also could be that if he dose go back to Iceland then Thorfinn may not be able to leave. He's trying not to think about hi family because he'll be tempted to abandon his revenge quest.

[Guardian Enzo]

I think what's being debated here is not his refusal to go back, but more that he didn't even ask Leif-san about them.

[Psyco Diver]

Once again another episode that is just plain to short, I'm just enjoying this series way to much

My opinion Askeladd said his leg is just strong enough to hold a sword when he talked to Bjorn and now he will fight Thorfinn. It should be a interesting episode for sure

[Arya]

Things were going too well for Askeladd to not have some serious drawback. First Thorfinn with his revenge fixation and then the King's counterattack.

Askeladd and Bjork duel was poignant indeed, I agree he did care for Bjork and would have thought of him as his friend, it's just that he never let that thought emerge. So while his hesitation may seem he didn't really thought what he said, I think he was more very debated to let himself giving in at those feelings ("those" given the gravity of the moment). Letting aside I think he would have said more than just that. But circumstances matter (dying Bjork) and he probably would never have said more than that in different circumstances.

Speaking of Thorfinn not asking of his mother and sister, well, I think that primarily he's trying to avoid to think to his family. He secluded himself, knowing deep down it's wrong and that he should have came back home, so he can't go home anymore, or at least yet, before at least having avenged his father.
On the other hand his questioning Leif about Vinland felt quite caustic to me, he asked if he built his home there already... like he was doubting about that place ( or his stories as the kids did back in Iceland). that would make sense, after 11 years in his mind probably he thought, what are you doing still here if you can live in a better place.

On thorfinn behalf he wasn't a warrior, he was a kid, so in a sense he had no obligation to follow any warrior code. To say that the comparison with Bjork, Thorkell and Askeladd doesn't fit much.

Anyways, I doubt Canute would let Thorfinn kill Askeladd given that he is his best asset right now.