Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury - Anime Episode Discussion

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by azarhal

SAL attacked Quiet Zero, shot first and she defended herself. What's wrong with that? The next episode even showed that Quiet Zero needs to recharge so destroying everything was the only option to stop them.

Oh wait, I forgot you are one of those people who believe SAL are the good guys, instead of the group behind the terrorists who attacked both Plant Quetta and the school, killing countless innocents civilians going on a mission to dismantle the Benerit Group using at least 4 fleets of 60+ ships with orders to shoot on sight.

Elnora didn't use her lethal gun once last episode, despite a clear line of sight. She had plenty of opportunities to shoot Moirine, but she didn't. Also, the haro-machinegun were using none-lethal concussion beam going by how one knocked out El5n's gun form his hand. Bel and El5n shot at her with real ammo thought, yet she ignored them the entire time...

She's not responsible for the Earthians soldiers breaking their orders (of not shooting) over some explosion far behind them that didn't arm a single of their soldiers during a ceasefire. Nor is she responsible for the Benerit soldiers also breaking their orders to not shoot.

Ah, okay, you're one of those guys, who thinks the clearly bad guy is in reality a good guy. Alrighty.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Did we ever get any detailed on-screen explanation on how to control a mech in a real-robot mech anime? Heck, even Anno (the detail-maniac otaku) did not explain how the pilots control their EVAs in Evangelion other than the pilots pushing buttons & grabbing/swinging joysticks. In fact, G Gundam had one of the best explanations on how the pilots controls their Gundams: by wearing futuristic Mocap Suits (with the help of Kyoji!!!)

MoCap is also how they do it in FMP. But the moves are amplified. (Small move in the cockpit translates to a big one for the mech. Which is how they can stay seated, I guess.)

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Ah, okay, you're one of those guys, who thinks the clearly bad guy is in reality a good guy. Alrighty.

There are no good guys, but Prospera is arguably the least horrible.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

MoCap is also how they do it in FMP. But the moves are amplified. (Small move in the cockpit translates to a big one for the mech. Which is how they can stay seated, I guess.)

Really? I don't remember the general Arm Slaves (AS) in FMP are piloted using Mocap Suits though.

Here's an example where Sosuke piloted the main AS (Arbalest) in a civilian clothes using joysticks at the 1:27 Mark:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/CtSPc8zm6tc

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Ah, okay, you're one of those guys, who thinks the clearly bad guy is in reality a good guy. Alrighty.

I never said she was the "good guy" (the show doesn't have any outside the out of the loop kids), I'm pointing out that she killed in self-defense and that she isn't responsible for how those Earthians soldiers reacted to actions not taken directly against them.

People killed by Prospera (or Eri under Prospera's request):
- The terrorists threatening Suletta at Plant Quetta in episode 12
- The SAL soldiers attacking Quiet Zero (and tus Eri) in episode 21 and 22 (those soldiers were attacking because Quiet Zero is a Benerit assets, they didn't even know about Prospera)

Prosera and Eri has yet to kill anyone who isn't directly threatening a family member.

[magnuskn]

I guess disabling all the mechs wasn't enough, Eri also had to kill all the helpless pilots.

And Prospera is directly responsible for the tensions on Earth escalating into a massacre.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I guess disabling all the mechs wasn't enough, Eri also had to kill all the helpless pilots.

As I already explained, Quiet Zero has to recharge as shown by the intro of the next episode, so destroying them was their only way to remove them as a threat.

There is 5 people inside of Quiet Zero, they were not taking 60+ military ship worth of soldiers, with orders to shoot on sight, as prisoners.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And Prospera is directly responsible for the tensions on Earth escalating into a massacre.

The episode before Miorine lands on Earth, the TV news big label says:
- Why have tensions in Quinharbour escalated into wider military conflicts?
- Violent protests in Quinharbour recall dark memories of the Drone War era

Looks to me like things were already escalated into war before they got to Earth.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by azarhal

The episode before Miorine lands on Earth, the TV news big label says:
- Why have tensions in Quinharbour escalated into wider military conflicts?
- Violent protests in Quinharbour recall dark memories of the Drone War era

Looks to me like things were already escalated into war before they got to Earth.

That doesn't change the fact that Prospera staged a false flag when Miorine succeeded in halting the conflict which directly led to the deaths of possibly thousands of people. She guilty as sin for that.

[magnuskn]

I never get that "I must prove that the obvious bad guy in reality is not!" mentality. Same thing happened on Macross Delta.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Endscape

That doesn't change the fact that Prospera staged a false flag when Miorine succeeded in halting the conflict which directly led to the deaths of possibly thousands of people. She guilty as sin for that.

The shot she took at her self resulted in exactly zero reactions from the Earthians or Benerit troops.

And destroying the Gundams was definitively not a false flag and since there was no Earthians troops and those Gundams aren't supposed to exist, she didn't break the ceasefire either.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by azarhal

The shot she took at her self resulted in exactly zero reactions from the Earthians or Benerit troops.

And destroying the Gundams was definitively not a false flag and since there was no Earthians troops and those Gundams aren't supposed to exist, she didn't break the ceasefire either.

I said nothing about the Gundams. It's a clear fact that her false flag with hacking the Eathian tank to attack her is what relit the conflict that Miorine had stopped.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I said nothing about the Gundams. It's a clear fact that her false flag with hacking the Eathian tank to attack her is what relit the conflict that Miorine had stopped.

But nothing happens when she does that. Benerit troops don't react to it. The Earthians don't react to it. You hear "do not attack" orders over the comms.

The Earthians only go full assault on the Benerit troops after they hear the explosions caused by the Gundams getting destroyed. Benerit troops only start fighting back when one of them panics and start to shoot back.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Really? I don't remember the general Arm Slaves (AS) in FMP are piloted using Mocap Suits though.

Here's an example where Sosuke piloted the main AS (Arbalest) in a civilian clothes using joysticks at the 1:27 Mark:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/CtSPc8zm6tc

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

It's a vague memory, but I'm pretty sure I read about it when Tessa tried to pilot one for some reason, and why physical fitness was important to pilot.

It didn't use a suit to capture the motions, though.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by azarhal

But nothing happens when she does that. Benerit troops don't react to it. The Earthians don't react to it. You hear "do not attack" orders over the comms.

The Earthians only go full assault on the Benerit troops after they hear the explosions caused by the Gundams getting destroyed. Benerit troops only start fighting back when one of them panics and start to shoot back.

You behave as if these are completely separate events. The Earthians were already on edge because of Prospera's false flag, that just made it worse which as we know was entirely the point on her end.

Even if I were to believe that those two events have nothing to do with each other, she still opened fire in a veritable powder keg of an area, despite knowing what could very well happen. It was a deliberate act aimed to manipulate Benerit into violent actions so Prospera could get what she wanted; Miorine as president.

[Xeiros]

Regarding a potential continuation.

So we've got a setting wherein pilots of the titular Gundams or to be more specific mobile suits that use the Gund-Arm technology as their control method is a death sentence. Unless you’re the MC and happen to have the one exception Gundam that doesn’t kill you cause it’s got the one special person who synced with the data storms biometrics inside it. The powers that be green-light another two cours for WfM. How do you deal with this little issue?

1. MC pilots Aerial who totally survived 23’s space laser for another 25 episodes

2. MC goes even further beyond in 24 and becomes one with/immune to the data storm.

3. The data storm decides to stop killing people cause it feels bad or something.

4. She doesn’t pilot a Gundam in the second half. Heresy of the highest order.

5. You introduce a new MC who also happens to be special like Eri was while Suletta retires to the tomato farms on Earth at the ripe old age of 18 with her wife Miorine.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

Regarding a potential continuation.

So we've got a setting wherein pilots of the titular Gundams or to be more specific mobile suits that use the Gund-Arm technology as their control method is a death sentence. Unless you’re the MC and happen to have the one exception Gundam that doesn’t kill you cause it’s got the one special person who synced with the data storms biometrics inside it. The powers that be green-light another two cours for WfM. How do you deal with this little issue?

6. Update the Gundams so that an AI manages the heaviest load of the feedback while the pilot interfaces at a lower score, meaning they can safely reach Level 4 without harm. Brought to you by Jeturk and Gund-Arm collaboration.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's a vague memory, but I'm pretty sure I read about it when Tessa tried to pilot one for some reason, and why physical fitness was important to pilot.

It didn't use a suit to capture the motions, though.

I rewatched FMP shows recently, and from all the pilots that I've seen operating on-screen, pretty much all of them sit and used joysticks inside their cockpits to control their ASs (like most other mecha pilots) unless I missed something.

So yeah, I'm not convinced with the mocap for AS control in general unless you can show me some quotes, clips or screencaps with source.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I rewatched FMP shows recently, and from all the pilots that I've seen operating on-screen, pretty much all of them sit and used joysticks inside their cockpits to control their ASs (like most other mecha pilots) unless I missed something.

So yeah, I'm not convinced with the mocap for AS control in general unless you can show me some quotes, clips or screencaps with source.

It's been a while, but wasn't that about the need for a minimum level of fitness while running around what amounts to a box while subjected to horrendous G-forces?

[Xeiros]

Originally Posted by Twi

6. Update the Gundams so that an AI manages the heaviest load of the feedback while the pilot interfaces at a lower score, meaning they can safely reach Level 4 without harm. Brought to you by Jeturk and Gund-Arm collaboration.

The whole Gundam Curse has not been addressed. In the over 2 decades the series has taken place no progress has been made on that front save for a single girl who got lucky and that’s yet to be replicated. Best they’ve done is throw slightly tougher bodies at it that die slower than the average person, but eventually die nonetheless. Even the latest Gundam produced, the Schwarzette, produced by Jeturk who we know uses AI could not solve the issue.

Details like that, the earth vs space race war, etc will either wind up being just set dressing for Prospera’s Eri QZ plot or one of several conflicts actually addressed in a potential S2. Are they mere world building details or actual questions/issues the story intends to address. For now it's the former.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You behave as if these are completely separate events. The Earthians were already on edge because of Prospera's false flag, that just made it worse which as we know was entirely the point on her end.

Even if I were to believe that those two events have nothing to do with each other, she still opened fire in a veritable powder keg of an area, despite knowing what could very well happen. It was a deliberate act aimed to manipulate Benerit into violent actions so Prospera could get what she wanted; Miorine as president.

Rewatch the scene where Prospera nudge Miorine to go down the Earth and read the TV news headlines. It clearly says that Quinharbour is an active warzone with multiple casualties on both side before Miorine decide to go down to Earth. Violence happening is why Miorine decided to go there in the first place.

Although, I think I see where you are coming from. You think the Earthians thought the Benerit troops were setting them up with the tank and returning fire on them. But nothing suggest that in the dialogues or the sequence of events:
- tank fire at Aerial
- considerable lapse of time so Aerial can fly outside of the city, pick up the gun, find and get into the underground bunker and then fire the gun
- Gundams explode underground outside the city behind a mountain
- Earthian A: An attack!?
- Earthian B: They did it, its's the Spacians!
- Earthian troops start to unload everything on the Benerit troops.

The Earthians B didn't check what exploded or if any of their troops were actually attacked.

As for Prospera wanting Miorine as President. I'm actually puzzled about it personally. It doesn't appear to be the case with Prospera ghosting Miorine back on Earth and booting up Quiet Zero almost at the same time Miorine got elected President. I've seen a lots of people complaining about it online too.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by alt_account

Yes, IMO Prospera has never been a credible antagonist and Aerial even less so. The prologue and Cradle Planet short story ensured both of them were sympathetic from the beginning. Fundamentally, the idea of Suletta and Aerial ever seriously trying to fight each other never made sense -- although Suletta is the protagonist of Witch from Mercury, Eri/Aerial are the protagonist of the Ad Stella universe -- so conceptions of the plot where Eri ended up as the final antagonist were always complete nonsense.

Isn't being sympathetic more conducive to them being antagonists you want to invest in?

I think Eri is technically a co-protagonist if you want to stretch it because she's been there from the start and was there the whole time as Aerial but Suletta is more of the main character.