Kantai Collection ~Kancolle~ (Browser Game)

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sheba

We got it, you likely never gonna use her anyway. Russian KC players otoh will be happy to have a representative.

Iam making no secret out of having preferred one of the russian cruisers, so no, likely not unless its non-event maps or specifically needed for routing.

That isn't the issue though - Its that she is technically better than Ise (HP aside). Which is still justifyable by saying that the weaker guns will compensate for the base FP.
The true issue is that she is considered an FBB while having a top speed (notably trials) of just 24 Knots.

To compare a list of ships the game considers slow:
Nagato-class: 26.5 Knots
Yamato-class: 27 Knots
Warspite : 24 Knots

i.e a total of 5 ships, with 4 that are faster while considered slow by the game.
What makes it even more ironic is that Mutsu, while for different reasons, is being called a 'snail'

[Cyprene]

I need that Shimishu, NOW, but I want that catapult too so I can upgrade the one girl...
Which means clearing some level on some difficulty other than easy, probably, and so I'm gonna need to plan since I was busy with work this quarter and only have 260-odd buckets. And I can't plan until all the info is available.

Just sitting and gathering a few last buckets now. Come on, wiki people and guide writers, do your thing...

[Ithekro]

Shimushu became Soviet after the war as EK-31 (at first). Decommissioned and scrapped in 1959. The post-war Russian group is expanding, with Hibiki, Graf Zepplin, and eventually one of the Akizuki-class destroyers.

Kunashiri was wrecked during repatriating that later involved Kamikaze.

Etorofu was an improved verision of Shumushu. She was handed over to the Americans, who scrapped her post war.

Kasuga Maru was the ship's name for when was was going to be finished as a passanger liner (she never was, since they designed her to be converted into a carrier and was after launching. She kept that name in service until basically September 1942, when be officially became Taiyo. She is another submarine trauma victim (USS Rasher, SS-269).

Gangut's been covered, but which was is she, since the Gangut herself doesn't fit the previous descriptions. One of her sisters's does.

But who's the ship from before? The mystery ship?

(Shimakaze was always warp capable. Warp 4 all the way. She's got her nacelles in her head)

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Shimushu became Soviet after the war as EK-31 (at first). Decommissioned and scrapped in 1959. The post-war Russian group is expanding, with Hibiki, Graf Zepplin, and eventually one of the Akizuki-class destroyers.

Kunashiri was wrecked during repatriating that later involved Kamikaze.

Etorofu was an improved verision of Shumushu. She was handed over to the Americans, who scrapped her post war.

Kasuga Maru was the ship's name for when was was going to be finished as a passanger liner (she never was, since they designed her to be converted into a carrier and was after launching. She kept that name in service until basically September 1942, when be officially became Taiyo. She is another submarine trauma victim (USS Rasher, SS-269).

Gangut's been covered, but which was is she, since the Gangut herself doesn't fit the previous descriptions. One of her sisters's does.

But who's the ship from before? The mystery ship?

If by mystery ship you mean the russian one then it can be said that it wouldn't be the first time they didn't announce several foreign ships coming at once.
If you mean the ship with the blue bracers thats IJN Kamoi.

[Academus]

Calm down. It's very likely that the datamined spec isn't Gangut's real parameter, especially considering that her remodeled forms share the exact same statistics, and are exactly the same as stock Kongou.

[Ithekro]

I didn't see the updated image for Kamoi.

To quote myself from a different location. "Seaplane Tenders are amazing".

Like Ryuujou being mistaken for Asashio-class. Taiyo will be mistaken for Fubuki-class.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Academus

Calm down. It's very likely that the datamined spec isn't Gangut's real parameter, especially considering that her remodeled forms share the exact same statistics, and are exactly the same as stock Kongou.

I really hope you are right regarding the Datamined content, because her guns also seem to be better than Biskos' - Depending on the rest of her K2 stats she might actually outdo her in Yasen now.
They apparently utterly OP her instead of compensating with new game mechanics.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

If her Max FP stat is true, then she is an insult to Ise and Hyuuga
Same FP as their BB variant and 5 inch less.

Edit: Also FBB...

No way thats right... By that logic Yamato would be an FBB too. >>

First you complain that she'd be useless from a gameplay perspective and now you are whining that she may be too good based on unconfirmed data. Decide what you want man.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

First you complain that she'd be useless from a gameplay perspective and now you are whining that she may be too good based on unconfirmed data. Decide what you want man.

I didn't really erecognize those as Kongou's stats before Academus pointed me on it, butif you go back you will see that her being Oped was one of the concerns too. I would have much preferred a gameplay solution rather than that. (letting her have an opening torpedo strike was just an example, there are certainly dozens of other ways).

Its not just the current ship stats though, its also the equipment which is (for both ships Kai versions) slightly better than Biskos.
i.E there is a chance she might actually outdo even the Hotels in Yasen depending on what she gets for torpedoes.

There is also a HUGE difference between outright Oping a ship and making it useful from an objective PoV. Unless Shell size will play a bigger role in the future she might even outdo some of the actually better ships in day-combat.

I still want what I wanted to begin with her being useful without being outright OP

[Kakurin]

And where exactly is the border? A few days ago you pitted a hypothetical example against Iowa emphatically declaring that otherwise she'd be useless.

Is it known yet which Gangut-class she is? Gangut herself is incompatible with previous info regarding thr name changes.

[AC-Phoenix]

I also said, if she doesn't have a special game mechanic - you are missing half the point there.

As for Iowa:
I deliberately picked out Iowa in particular because she is the wekaest Yasen-boat out of the Top 4 (I was actually looking for the top 3, but forgot about Musashi back then, due to her absence from my roster)

Potentially outgunning Iowa in Yasen and potentially outgunning Bisko are also two entirely different topics as Bisko actually has a torpedo stat in her favor - the leap towards the Hotels is far smaller from there and going by the guns it might actually happen.

I also specifically mentioned Night battle btw.


Furthermore, depending on the FP she gets she might actually become stronger than some of the ships that should actually be better than her (and now I am btw talking about Day combat), decreasing their value.

Her turrets are a prime example of that while it is technically true that adding another gun to it increases its potential this is only true as long as its being pitted against the same Armor.

Just check wikipedia up on Biskos 38cms and Gangut's 30.5
Biskos guns win out in pretty much every category, (including armor btw) and yet they apparently not only have the same stats but Gangut gets an extra armor point out of it.

To keep to the extreme examples: At the same range, which of these guns do you think will do more damage to Yamato's armor belt?

by Kancolle mechanic they will both do the same and you'd need to be rather close to Yamato already for Bisko's guns to actually have a proper effect. - Yet by Kancolel mechanics they do pretty much the same, notably from Bisko required range, not the Gangut's; Please note that Bisko's shells weight up to double as much (depending on how much shell size actually counts)

Again, it is possible to make something useful without OPing it.

Edit under that light:
If those stats are true, why would I use 35.6 guns anymore when a historically weaker gun has far more advantatges? If you compare the currently datamined, true or not, stats against Haruna's guns, where the shell size difference is not even half as bad as in Biskos case, and my issue might become more apparent.

[Kakurin]

I deliberately ignored the torpedo gimmick because you haven't thought it through. The only class that can do the opening strike are subs. CLT and AV can only do it because of the kohyoteki, which is a minisub. So, looking past a foreign kanmusu equpping it, it would come at the expense of the AP shell - suboptimal. Second, to make it worthwhile she'd need high torpedo stats. That would lead to either completely crapped firepower stats to balance it off, or a very high night performance - which would have you complaining about her being OP again.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I deliberately ignored the torpedo gimmick because you haven't thought it through. The only class that can do the opening strike are subs. CLT and AV can only do it because of the kohyoteki, which is a minisub. So, looking past a foreign kanmusu equpping it, it would come at the expense of the AP shell - suboptimal. Second, to make it worthwhile she'd need high torpedo stats. That would lead to either completely crapped firepower stats to balance it off, or a very high night performance - which would have you complaining about her being OP again.

She could still double shoot though - As for her being OP then: As long as she wasn't too high above Iowa then, it would imho be fine.
the issue to find a usuable example to compare her against lies not only in the Torpedoes (which actually makes Bisko or cruisers the only real choice), but also that she should be the weakest of all the BBs.

The ones I'd compared her agaisnt otherwise would have been Ise and Hyuuga, who are however BBVs.

What I think she should have is lower FP than Ise, and a slightly Torpedo higher than Bisko while having 12 FP guns - 13 for all I care if you want to honor the additional gun on the turret. (at least seems like a good progression taking the 35.6 and 38 in mind.) in return an opening strike, which doesn't even have to be THAT powerful as even bisko can sink destroyers theoretically sink destroyers and CLs with her torp.

If she had 70 Fp + 45TP she'd have the same stats as Iowa for example and the Hull mounted torps could replace the midget sub for her as a special mechanic similar to the special AACI.
And even if you gave less than Bisko so she just adds up at 99 FP, like the Nagatos an opening and an end strike could very well compensate for that.


If you want an analogy, what currently happened is imho basically like giving Iowas GFCS guns the firepower and AA of Yamatos 51cms while still keeping the rest of their stats which is imho still more feasable than what happened with the 12 inch guns here since Iowas has rather heavy shells.
And note I'd still regard this as 'wtf?Making them have the same FP is totally Op, there is a 2 inch difference'

Which brings us back to what I said in my last post:
there is not only a three inch difference between Bisko and <inset Gangut class name>, but also the matter of the shells weighting only a bit more than half.

I can see how the unconfirmed stats argument for the Ship's stats is fair game, the Turrets seem rather final though.


Makes me really hope the new k2 BB will be Nagato or Mutsu. (on the other hand it should actually be Ise and Hyuuga now to compensate)

Edit: In case you ever played World of Warships, the difference between calibers gets pretty obvious there when you are up against stronger vessels.
Bismarck would certainly do more damage per shell than any of the 30.5s assuming a hit that is exactly the same.

Yet both variants of the 305 gun currently show the exact same stats as Biskos. In case of the Kai's its not even copy paste as they got an additonal stat.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Is it known yet which Gangut-class she is? Gangut herself is incompatible with previous info regarding thr name changes.

From the KC3 data, the game files specifically list her as "Гангут" (Gangut). She then remodels into "Октябрьская революция" (Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya, i.e. 'October Revolution'), then remodels once more into "Гангут два"(Gangut Dvah, i.e. Gangut Two).

As for surprise ships, there isn't going to be any. Kancolle has never pulled off a surprise ship that's beyond the stated number of available ships, and in this case they've stated that this event will have 6 new ships. And let's see who we have:

- Kamoi
- Kasuga Maru/Taiyou
- Shimushu
- Kunashiri
- Gangut
- Etorofu

That's all 6 ships well and accounted for.

[Estavali]

Some stuff I've read so far on the Bahamut forums and afaik doesn't seem to be on wikia yet:

- E2 & E3 are Transport + Red Gauge maps.
- E2 boss for Transport Gauge is DD Princess @ node R.
- E2 boss for Red Gauge is the CA Princess @ node T.
- For E3, we have to visit nodes B, C & E once to reveal the complete map for the Transport Gauge.
- E3 boss node for Transport Gauge is node V (example of composition @ 甲 difficulty. Disregard the title, the uploader wrote E2 by mistake).
- E3 boss for Red Gauge is the new Escort Princess @ node W (example of composition @ 甲 difficulty).
- Map rewards for E1 on the highest difficulty (甲): Food Supply Ship Mamiya x 1, Furniture Fairy X 1, Type 95 Depth Charge, Type 1 Fighter Hayabusa Model II, 4th Anniversary Scroll (furniture).
- Map rewards for E2 on the highest difficulty (甲): Combat Rations x 2, Food Supply Ship Irako X 3, Repair Goddess x 1, Type 2 Depth Charge, Type 1 Fighter Hayabusa Model III A
- I-13 (Hitomi) drops at E1 boss node at all difficulties.
- Minazuki drops at E1 boss node (confirmed for 甲).

[Ithekro]

As far as I know, she never got her original name back, ending her career named after the October Revolution. So that is odd.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As far as I know, she never got her original name back, ending her career named after the October Revolution. So that is odd.

Either they changed their mind, or they know something we don't. They did afterall give her a "Gangut Dva" as her final remodel instead of "Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Dva".

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Either they changed their mind, or they know something we don't. They did afterall give her a "Gangut Dva" as her final remodel instead of "Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Dva".

Or number 3: Tanaka got his info wrong.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Edit: In case you ever played World of Warships, the difference between calibers gets pretty obvious there when you are up against stronger vessels.
Bismarck would certainly do more damage per shell than any of the 30.5s assuming a hit that is exactly the same.

Yet both variants of the 305 gun currently show the exact same stats as Biskos. In case of the Kai's its not even copy paste as they got an additonal stat.

You try to give me a lecture based on WoW knowledge?

You should stop trying to think too historically when it comes to Kancolle. And if you want to have a serious discussion about historical performance I recommend educating yourself with stuff like that first:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/gunarmor.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Either they changed their mind, or they know something we don't. They did afterall give her a "Gangut Dva" as her final remodel instead of "Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Dva".

Or its a mistake in terms of research, would explain the high gun stats too.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

You try to give me a lecture based on WoW knowledge?

You should stop trying to think too historically when it comes to Kancolle. And if you want to have a serious discussion about historical performance I recommend educating yourself with stuff like that first:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/gunarmor.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

I looked foir a game comparison, yes
WoW actually makes a not too shaby example though, as it calculates each hit against different parts of the armor, while taking shell size and a whole lot of other things into account.


The point is - and I need no calculator for that -, that I can't imagine Biskos 15inchers having the same firepower as Gangut's 12 inchers (pretty sure they don't, even without calculating)

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As far as I know, she never got her original name back, ending her career named after the October Revolution. So that is odd.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Either they changed their mind, or they know something we don't. They did afterall give her a "Gangut Dva" as her final remodel instead of "Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Dva".

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Or number 3: Tanaka got his info wrong.

Or #4: They felt Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Dva was too long a name and/or too much a mouthful and decided to go back to Gangut for the 2nd remodel . To be honest, I'd call her either Gangut, Octya or OR, with no offense intended to our Russian fellows.