Byakugan, Sharingan & Rinnengan

[CommS007]

Although we haven't seen many (if any) counter-ing the sharingan effects though.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Narutto Kyuubi

Well hyuga blood line isnt everything about the eyes you know. Neji can Also emit chakra out of every part of his body. that is how he is able to do his spinning defense. AND not only does he emit chakra out of every part of his body he also controls what he has released with a great deal of control.

The Byakugan's abilities is only about the eyes.
Now that doesn't mean that you can't use these ablities to do something else, in this case using your eyes to develop a particular fighting style such as the Jyuken.

To emit and control the chakra are the two main points of the Jyuken, and the Byakugan helps to do that simply because you can see the chakra, how it moves, etc.

Spoiler:

the first two steps of the Rasengan showed how it's difficult for a normal ninja to do that, because they need to feel their chakra to know how it moves and to make it moves at will.
And something difficult on one part of the body must be incredibly harder when you do it with all the tenketsu at the same time.

For a Hyuga who has masterized the Jyuken style such as Neji (it's not a given though, a regular Hyuga who can't even see the tenkentsu can't do that) it's just a simple task.


MidoriShinobi firstly Kakashi never says that the Byakugan was better than the Sharingan, he merely said that the Byakugan has a better insight, that's all.
Then what Neji did with Hinata wasn't really a particularity of the Byakugan the whole thing of reading the face of people to know about what they think is a well known stuff, you don't need the Byakugan for that.

[raikage]

MidoriShinobi, the Sharingan may have evolved as an offhsoot of the Byakugan - but that really tells us nothing about the two as relative in strength.

It doesn't even mean that the Sharingan, as the "newer" eye, is better - unless the Byakugan has not evolved at all since the time of the split (which is possible, but unlikely).

To have the Byakugan does NOT mean you have total control over your own chakra - since Neji couldn't learn the Lotus (or even be able to speed up his own chakra flow enough to fake it). To me, this almost defies belief, but it's there.

[FreakyEyes]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Anyway, Hyuga able to see the tenketsus are rare, and those able to use them during a real fight even more, Neji gains his title of genius because of that.
.

I thought that every Hyuuga, as they have Byakugan, can see the tenketsus. The hard part is to hit them during combat. Does it say somewhere that all Hyuugas can't SEE tenketsus?

[treetrall-sama]

I'd go for Sharingan

[Explosion of Youth]

If byakugan is so good, why didn't Kakashi get that eye instead of sharingan? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Explosion of Youth]

Also, a byukugan user could not face a mange sharingan user. WTF is he supposed to do look at the ground and kaiten while hoping for the best?

[Terriator]

Originally Posted by Explosion of Youth

If byakugan is so good, why didn't Kakashi get that eye instead of sharingan? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Lol...I think it's way harder to transplant Byakugan.

The sharingan may be stronger against other users, but not against Hyuuga, as they won't be able to use anything against Hyuuga (If Gai, a person who doesn't have Byakugan, can fight the Sharingan by not looking Itachi In the eyes, then I would say that person just as skilled as Itachi just with Byakugan instead, would stand a really good chance), but their infirior insight and their abillity to not copy their unique fighting style as they don't have Byakugan

wow...that was a strange sentence i just made there. Gotta stop using those parantheses

[Explosion of Youth]

Uh...Its CLEARLY stated that the only reason Gai could do it was because of his EXPERIENCE in fighting Kakashi and the Sharingan. By the time someone learned to attack by looking at the enemy's feet, they'd be dead.

[Terriator]

Yes..i know...but bloodlines should not be evaluated on who has them, but on their abillities. If a person just as strong as Itachi was fighting him with Byakugan instead of Sharingan, I definitly think The Byakugan would win.

With the control of the eyes that the Byakugan gives the user don't you think that if he just knew he shouldn't look directly at the Sharingan he could do it? Byakugan might give the user the abillity to see 360 degrees around, but it doesn't mean the user has to focus at everything around him. Mange Sharingan only work if you look directly at the Sharingan

[Nine Devil]

Originally Posted by Terriator

Yes..i know...but bloodlines should not be evaluated on who has them, but on their abillities. If a person just as strong as Itachi was fighting him with Byakugan instead of Sharingan, I definitly think The Byakugan would win.

With the control of the eyes that the Byakugan gives the user don't you think that if he just knew he shouldn't look directly at the Sharingan he could do it? Byakugan might give the user the abillity to see 360 degrees around, but it doesn't mean the user has to focus at everything around him. Mange Sharingan only work if you look directly at the Sharingan

how do you know that? Sharingan could be the worst match for a Byakugan.

[Unidentified]

Nine Devils. It's the other way around. Sharingan is ineffective against the byukagan. They can't use their own moves back on them because they can't do it. They can predict moves, well byukgan can see through object all around them and like HIashi did before sense their intent(killing intent with Hizashi in the flashback).

Hunter. YOu said the amatseru(spelled wrong I think) and the other jutsu is on a different level than the byuakgan moves. Look at the kaiten huge, fast and doesn't waset chakra. 1 hit kills, who knows Hiashi or other jounin hyuga's may be able to do lots of them without wasting their chakra. While just doing those 2 Itachi got tired.

Also the more powerful the user the more powerful the moves in terms of the byukgan. As seen by comparing Hiashi's kaiten(manga kaiten) to neji's.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by FreakyEyes

I thought that every Hyuuga, as they have Byakugan, can see the tenketsus. The hard part is to hit them during combat. Does it say somewhere that all Hyuugas can't SEE tenketsus?

During the first fight between Neji and Hinata.

Originally Posted by Terriator

The sharingan may be stronger against other users, but not against Hyuuga, as they won't be able to use anything against Hyuuga

Originally Posted by Unidentified

Nine Devils. It's the other way around. Sharingan is ineffective against the byukagan. They can't use their own moves back on them because they can't do it.

Except to predict his moves, hypnotize him, use the vast amount of jutsus copied, crush his mind or even kill him inside the world of Tsukiyomi, vaporize him at sight with the Amaterasu?

If Gai, a person who doesn't have Byakugan, can fight the Sharingan by not looking Itachi In the eyes, then I would say that person just as skilled as Itachi just with Byakugan instead, would stand a really good chance),

You don't fight a bloodline, you fight an user, and Gai isn't even close to the level of Itachi, to be the better Taijutsu specialist of the whole series only allows him not to be hypnotized, that's all.

Originally Posted by Unidentified

Hunter. You said the amatseru(spelled wrong I think) and the other jutsu is on a different level than the byuakgan moves. Look at the kaiten huge, fast and doesn't waset chakra. 1 hit kills, who knows Hiashi or other jounin hyuga's may be able to do lots of them without wasting their chakra. While just doing those 2 Itachi got tired.

The Kaiten uses a large amount of chakra, and the bigger is your Kaiten, the more chakra you will use.

Also the more powerful the user the more powerful the moves in terms of the byukgan. As seen by comparing Hiashi's kaiten(manga kaiten) to neji's.

That's the case for everything, bloodline or not.

[Terriator]

Hunter--> What I meant was that if gai, a person not having Byakugan are able to move against the Sharingan, then a person with that much control of the sight can do the sam. A user of Byakugan could properly focus at everything but the head of the Sharingan user, meaning that the Sharing couldn't hypnotize him and kill him inside the world of sharingan. You say that Sharingan can predict their moves, but you forget that Byakugan is even better at doing that.

And I didn't say that Gai had a chance against Itachi. What I stated was that this thread is about what bloodline is strongest and not which possesor of a bloodline is strongest

/Terriator

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Terriator

Hunter--> What I meant was that if gai, a person not having Byakugan are able to move against the Sharingan, then a person with that much control of the sight can do the sam.

I know what you meant, and that has no sens at all, you don't move against a Sharingan but against a Sharingan user.
Gai can fight without looking at all at the eyes of his opponent because he's an incredible Taijutsu specialist, you can't do that because you have the Byakugan but only if you're as good as him in Taijutsu.

A user of Byakugan could properly focus at everything but the head of the Sharingan user, meaning that the Sharing couldn't hypnotize him and kill him inside the world of sharingan.

Oh? That's something new, since when the Byakugan can see at everything but one thing?

You say that Sharingan can predict their moves, but you forget that Byakugan is even better at doing that.

No, the Byakugan doesn't predict moves at all, it sees almost all what happens around the user, it's an ability anchored in the present.

[kaizoku_65]

If i could, i would take the Sharingan mostly coz of the ability to copy moves plus the eyes just look cool. I owuld hoeever be missing out on seeing someone's insides and a 360 degree view of things (bummer). Damn, not easy to pick is it?

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Unidentified

...and like HIashi did before sense their intent(killing intent with Hizashi in the flashback).

You can sense killing intent without the Byakugan.

Hunter, the Byakugan's susceptibility to genjutsu is still unknown. We still don't know for sure whether or not Tsukiyomi would work - since from what we've seen, Byakugan interprets the world in a COMPLETELY different way than regular eyes or even the Sharingan - which still gives you enhanced real-world sight.

As much as we want to say that this discussion is about the bloodline itself, it really does come down to the users. It is not unreasonable to say that a Byakugan user will often be faster than a Sharingan user, just like how you can also say that a Sharingan user will pretty much always know more ninjutsu than a Byakugan user.
This comes into play most notably when you begin talking about chakra and stamina - the two techniques referred to as the best trump cards of the Sharingan are ridiculously chakra-intensive, which may render them unusable when facing multiple opponents (This is before I mention the other copied jutsus, which may or may not consume large amounts of chakra). A Byakugan strategy, when facing multiple opponents or a really, really long fight, can conserve chakra by using quickness and taijutsu for repeated hits rather than the all-or-nothing gambles.

[Kouji]

Well, sharingan's definitely my best attack related ability. And it'd be great because you can reflect your opponents back at them. Because you can also copy Neji's 360 degree maneuver. And even that one guy that had a tornado type of attack which wiped out the enemies.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by raikage

Hunter, the Byakugan's susceptibility to genjutsu is still unknown. We still don't know for sure whether or not Tsukiyomi would work - since from what we've seen, Byakugan interprets the world in a COMPLETELY different way than regular eyes or even the Sharingan - which still gives you enhanced real-world sight.

Raikage, I will quote yourself about the Itachi has a summon or not point :

Until it's shown that Itachi has one, or even his mentioning that he has one, he doesn't. It really is just that simple.

It's true.
And it's true for everything in the manga, to say that the Byakugan would be immunized against the Tsukiyomi is as untrue as to say that Kabuto is immunized against it because he has glasses.

And besides the manga doesn't show that the Byakugan interprets the world in a completely different way than regular eyes (except for the almost 360° thingy of course)

Spoiler:

when Neji trained in the forest at the beginning of this arc, the representation of what he saw was normal... if he had eyes in his back

As much as we want to say that this discussion is about the bloodline itself, it really does come down to the users. It is not unreasonable to say that a Byakugan user will often be faster than a Sharingan user, just like how you can also say that a Sharingan user will pretty much always know more ninjutsu than a Byakugan user.

I hesitate about this one, mainly because the whole Uchiha clan was a considered as genius even if only a little elite of them had the Sharingan, was it even possible that a no-prodigy ninja could have been a Sharingan user?
When Gai states that Sasuke was about Lee's speed after just 2 weeks of training he was just saying : 'So that's the Uchiha clan', as it wasn't really surprising for one of them.

Anyway I completely agree that a ninja such as the Hyuga who are heavely specialized in Taijutsu will be often faster than other ninjas, simply because it's one of the main point of their training.
But the Uchiha can learn Genjutsu and Ninjutsu almost on the spot, literally in a glance, actually, to train their body's capacities (such as speed, reflexes, chakra control and emission, amount of chakra, etc.) are the only thing that they must train all the time because they can be copied.

This comes into play most notably when you begin talking about chakra and stamina - the two techniques referred to as the best trump cards of the Sharingan are ridiculously chakra-intensive, which may render them unusable when facing multiple opponents (This is before I mention the other copied jutsus, which may or may not consume large amounts of chakra). A Byakugan strategy, when facing multiple opponents or a really, really long fight, can conserve chakra by using quickness and taijutsu for repeated hits rather than the all-or-nothing gambles.

Well there is no reason that the Tsukiyomi doesn't work on multiple opponents if they look into Itachi's eyes as well, and the effect area of the Amaterasu can consume several opponents at the same time too.
But I understand your point, against a huge amount of opponent these jutsus aren't the most useful, that's the reason why I still think that Itachi is better than the Sannin in a 1 vs.1 fight but not in a 1 vs. X number of people (until the manga shows that Itachi has some incredible huge area effect jutsu or Godzilla-class summon anyway).

But a Sharingan master isn't forced to use these 2 jutsus all the time, an explosive Kage Bunshin or any of the multiple jutsu that he knows can deal with this kind of situation.

[Nine Devil]

Why does everybody think that Itachi has only 4 jutsu's :/ he just only showed 4. He is a ninja who probably has coppied many jutsu's so ofcourse he can deal with x amount of users. Its just stupid to assume a Sannin is better in vs x amount of enemy's. They never showed a Sannin using a jutsu who wiped like 10 people. Well againts a strong person then. Cuz assuming just because Itachi showed some high jutsu's who seems effective on 1 vs 1 fights is because he actually only been in 1 vs 1 fights. Anyways i big fight will happen soon i hope.