Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[Miraluka]

Thororm's spell is another if you want to get out of GRS.

This isn't like that. The things you're talking about involve genius. We're talking about an idea a random (no offense) person on the Internet managed to come up in one day. Everyone and their pet dog would have come up with the idea by now, assuming it could work.

You could pull genius from magical stories and plast them in the series like the author did with Aleister's character.

[LevelSeven]

Do you really believe that thousands of years worth of magicians couldn't come up with an idea for a spell that you suddenly came up one day? If your spell could work at all, it would have been exploited to hell and back. Magic is indeed BS, but even BS has rules to it.

doom, i have a name for you: Aureolus Izzard

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Thororm's spell is another if you want to get out of GRS.


You could pull genius from magical stories and plast them in the series like the author did with Aleister's character.

I'm pretty sure Crowley wasn't a genius...

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Thororm's spell is another if you want to get out of GRS.

Thorom's spell is nowhere near as powerful as the spell you're proposing, however. It only works for 10 minutes, only works on weapons and won't function against memebers of the Royal family, though admittedly the last limitation was intentional.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

You could pull genius from magical stories and plast them in the series like the author did with Aleister's character.

Not sure what you're trying to say.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

doom, i have a name for you: Aureolus Izzard

Ars Magna differs from your anti-demon spell in one important way. Ars Magna worked in theory, but nobody could put it into practice because the full incantation would last 200 years. Your spell doesn't even work in theory.

I've already explained why your spell doesn't work in theory. It is too inefficient, because humans are fundamentally different from demons. Trying to use your spell against Espers would be like trying to knit a sweater using metal pipes as needles and barbed wire as thread. If you want to make a counterargument, please explain how you could make it efficient enough to work.

If anything, Science has had a lot more success in undermining Magic than the other way around. When AIM and Mana reside in the same body, AIM triumphs and Mana becomes unusable on penalty of severe injury. Large, focused concentrations of AIM from outside can disrupt Magicians, but no amount of external Mana or Telesma has been able to disrupt Espers. Science can corrode Magic just by existing, but Magic needs to actively expend effort to combat Science. All of the major villains, all of the true super-heavyweights in TAMNI have been Magic Side characters, so on the surface it seems like the Magic side is the strongest, but the Science side does have its own advantages hidden beneath the obvious.

[LevelSeven]

I've already explained why your spell doesn't work in theory. It is too inefficient, because humans are fundamentally different from demons. Trying to use your spell against Espers would be like trying to knit a sweater using metal pipes as needles and barbed wire as thread. If you want to make a counterargument, please explain how you could make it efficient enough to work.

mmhhh, than not exorcism on its own....
the spell is fused with the witch hunt from great britian...

their was people who was labelled as witches and they suffered the same stuff like the real ones....

so: by using this two aspects, the magician should be able to (of course with preparation and a ritual like in othinus's case ) "label" every and anything as demonic and than activate the spell...

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

mmhhh, than not exorcism on its own....
the spell is fused with the witch hunt from great britian...

their was people who was labelled as witches and they suffered the same stuff like the real ones....

so: by using this two aspects, the magician should be able to (of course with preparation and a ritual like in othinus's case ) "label" every and anything as demonic and than activate the spell...

This spell could work. At this level, it resembles an unbound La Regina Del Mare Adriatico, so I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible.

[LevelSeven]

I think this was from dniv or tsunade

I meant right now lol. Though I don't know if level 6 means he'll be at her level. He may go beyond that, we'll just have to see. Also, lol, if he got that strong that would mean the villains would have to be way stronger than her to make it interesting so that would be interesting to see.

this will only happen in the end of the toaru series....
evil kakine is dead or is turned into a good guy
every kihara is stopped
the dark side destroyed
aleisters plan vanished
and accel has a discussion with LO but she tries to cut his connection to the network for lulz, it dont work....
END
the fans can now speculate about him:
did he reached lvl6 or is his brain healed?

from dniv

But from Will she said she wanted to challenge Thor to a lightning competition. That makes me think she's around his level. I mean she does have a lot of calculation power,
+SPOILER

i doubt that this would be of any use...
Will simply understaminated Thor:
1. She can control Clones
2. She shouldnt be able to affect the output of a Clone, since it is based on talent from birth, and every sister can only reach lvl 3 (with the way they are created)
=> or they go: f*ck logic...
3. She understaminated Thor, she already said that she dont know much about the occult
4. Her calc. ability, her whole personality is/are the combined brains of 9969 (9970) brains so her calc. "power" should be around tree diagram
10000 Level upper users (brains) are nearly equal to tree diagram, her abilitys cant be higher....
5. I still think that she is a entity created by aleister in order to influence accel and touma "(in)directly"
im waiting for the moment where it will be stated, her "speeches" to both of them helped aleister to 100% , this cant be a coincidence..
6. This doesnt make sense, why should Will willingly limit accel? their is no reason to stop accel OR not helping him with more calculation speed, if she does it willingly than: Othinus can have a partner in her journey to valhalla, it will be the Will....

[allfictions]

Again, stop erasing the name of who you quote, people have no idea who you are talking to and why. And does this person even knows you replied?

[dniv]

About Will-chan: I have a theory that the more the sisters spread around the world and the more data from different places they absorb quickly, the more Will-san will grow quickly. She has developed a lot... She now reasons at an extremely high level. Ignoring whether or not what she said was just talk, she was talking about super-existential topics while being super relaxed and not even batting an eye-lid. Yes, it is possible she was able to do that because she was

Spoiler for NT 9:

beyond life and death because of the Misaka clones;

but at the same time, she easily out-Toumaed Touma. Now while most people could easily dismiss this, IMO

Spoiler for Railgun S Sisters arc version:

Railgun S strongly emphasized the fact that Touma talked to the Misaka clones to give them emotions, and his entreaty to Misaka 10032 that she was also an individual was very much emphasized, and I'm guessing that was on purpose.

So my opinion, of that action is that indeed Touma was way above the Misaka clones morally, and it was the way he treated them and Mikoto that defined his character.

But now this volume, NT 9 showed Misaka Will understanding Touma better than Birdway could... and not only doing that, but also telling him he should be more like the usual him, and was happy he thought about what he was doing from the heart instead of using a precise/measured statement. The situation was pretty-much reversed. She seemed more human than he did... That was more than a little off-putting. Therefore, from my POV I expect her to have much more of an important role as the story proceeds. She's only had two appearances so far and honestly both of them were pretty awesome, and mysterious.

I don't see why people are discounting the possibility that she Will become an important character (no pun intended ). I find it already set it stone that this Will happen. The real question is just when it Will come to pass, and how many volumes we have to wait for it until it Will happen.

More importantly, I don't get why everyone is ignoring most of what she said last volume. Pretty much everything she said were some of the most important concepts in this entire series, so when she said:

Spoiler for NT 9:

Touma will have to rebuild his friendships over time. I really don't get why everyone is ignoring them or saying it won't happen that way. Do people really not want that to happen or something so they're discounting the possibility of it at all? I really want it to happen, because I think it would be awesome, and would be the chance for Touma to fix his meager bonds with the other characters and make sure everyone in his faction is really on the same page, and not just tagging along for the lulz.

[Ravagerblade]

That last part you said Dniv, if I'm not mistaken, I've said something like that somewhere here. I want Next volume to utterly rip apart his friendships. Because after the dust has settled they will truly know and 'understand' just who Touma Kamijou is, Something that nobody else has in this series. NT9 I could guess since Othinus was looking for understanding and found it in Touma it's going to come back to everyone just not right away.

lol at least this is partly my interpretation and thoughts. It's something you can never go back to, that normal life he had; in a way.
Anyways I have many thoughts on how things could go.


If that wasn't on-topic then.... errr lol I Don't Know!!!! The fairy spell I guess I'll ask about that!!!

Does it have it's own set of rules based in magic? Which Aeon does it work under?

[ACertainStark]

Not only that but with the appearance now of these special sisters like Will and possibly Full-Tuning in Railgun. I have a feeling that they have far more significance in the coming novels. She also has given her full support to Touma.

And I agree, I don't think all of Touma's relationships will last here. Not even with Mikoto or Index. It will take time and that's what I want too personally. Will has hinted at it and Kamachi doesn't let these things fly by with no attention paid to it.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

Not only that but with the appearance now of these special sisters like Will and possibly Full-Tuning in Railgun. I have a feeling that they have far more significance in the coming novels. She also has given her full support to Touma.

And I agree, I don't think all of Touma's relationships will last here. Not even with Mikoto or Index. It will take time and that's what I want too personally. Will has hinted at it and Kamachi doesn't let these things fly by with no attention paid to it.

A bigger question one could ask is why she would have hinted at it in the first place, if Kamachi hadn't intended for it to become important later.

I can't find any reason he would have mentioned it, if he wasn't planning for such a course of events later. Otherwise it would be like giving the reader this fantasy of this amazing scenario that might happen and then just raising their expectations, and then not giving them that. I don't really expect that from him.

In terms of the effect of those possible relationships breaking/getting fixed, does anyone at all think this could be an excuse for characters to either get introduced to magic if they haven't already, or for other characters to maybe get introduced to esper powers though the latter possibility seems less likely...

[Ravagerblade]

I think over time a lot but not all at least in the immediate future characters will find out about magic. So yeah basically.

[ACertainStark]

@dniv: Yep. It's one of his usual story telling methods he uses.

Maybe, but it might take a bit of time.

[LevelSeven]

they could be involved "deeper" into magic side stuff....

EDIT:

i think that after this arc kamachi will make a science centric arc and this about takitsubo and her evolving ino lvl5 through a gaint boost and a dangerous experiment of the kihara's....

so, fitting to the threads topic: what do you guys think are the abilitys of rikou/aim stalker as lvl5??

i think that even as lvl5 she shouldnt be able to manipulate PR's of espers...
why?
a small explanation:

the PR is like a dark clouds (as if they start to rain).....
the water which drops down is the aim, it is bound to the structure of the storm, a different composition of the clouds = a different patern of the rain different PR = diferent AIM pettern)

takitsubos abiliy can manipulate aim but (if i use my example) if i contorl the rain which drops down i cant control the structure of the clouds...
rikou controls aim but she dhoulfnt be able to affect the PR....
she could bring high lvl espers down and stop them from using heir powers (temporarily)
she should also be able to control kazakiri
furthermore, she would be able to summon the artifical heaven
and maybe even creating aiwass (because he once showed up and this because of the disorted aim field)

i doubt that she could give espers a different abiliy (or even a higher one) because of the AIM != PR
and with that also doubleskill or multiskill...

but despite this limitations im sure she would still be OP (of course she turns into a mindless tool and is controlled)....

do you guys agree?

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

If that wasn't on-topic then.... errr lol I Don't Know!!!! The fairy spell I guess I'll ask about that!!!

Does it have it's own set of rules based in magic? Which Aeon does it work under?

I'm going to repost what I've written about the Fairy Spell in the future volume speculation thread:

Originally Posted by Me

[The Fairy Spell] actively weaponizes Christianity's penchant for absorbing and reinterpreting foreign traditions.

Take Odin, for example. Now, many of you probably know that although Christmas is a Christian tradition (albeit one that has been mostly secularized by now), it has its roots in pagan traditions such as the Roman Saturnalia and especially the Northern Germanic Yule. What fewer people know is that when Christmas came to be, Odin, who was one of the main figures celebrated during Yule, was swallowed up into the figure of Santa Claus. Apparently, the whole chimney shtick is something Father Christmas inherited from the Norse Head God.

Odin is a God of War and Death. Santa Claus is a figure of Peace and Love. Odin is served by the souls of those who have died in battle. Santa Claus is served by little elves and reindeer. Odin delivers death to his enemies. Santa Claus delivers coal to naughty children (allegedly, because seriously, do you know of anyone who has ever received coal for Christmas?).

Clearly Odin has lost a lot of power in his transition to Santa Claus. Christianity stripped him of his spear and replaced it with a bag of presents. The Fairy Spell was designed to do something similar to Othinus. Whether or not she will become Santa Claus is another can of worms.

As for the Aeon, since it uses Christianity as a base to interfere with other religions, it is safe to say that it is Osiris. Really, the number of Horus Aeon abilities we've seen so far can be counted on the fingers of one severely frostbitten hand. There's Aiwass, Aleister and maybe Accelerator's White Wings and IB. That's pretty much it.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

they could be involved "deeper" into magic side stuff....

EDIT:

i think that after this arc kamachi will make a science centric arc and this about takitsubo and her evolving ino lvl5 through a gaint boost and a dangerous experiment of the kihara's....

so, fitting to the threads topic: what do you guys think are the abilitys of rikou/aim stalker as lvl5??

i think that even as lvl5 she shouldnt be able to manipulate PR's of espers...
why?
a small explanation:

the PR is like a dark clouds (as if they start to rain).....
the water which drops down is the aim, it is bound to the structure of the storm, a different composition of the clouds = a different patern of the rain different PR = diferent AIM pettern)

takitsubos abiliy can manipulate aim but (if i use my example) if i contorl the rain which drops down i cant control the structure of the clouds...
rikou controls aim but she dhoulfnt be able to affect the PR....
she could bring high lvl espers down and stop them from using heir powers (temporarily)
she should also be able to control kazakiri
furthermore, she would be able to summon the artifical heaven
and maybe even creating aiwass (because he once showed up and this because of the disorted aim field)

i doubt that she could give espers a different abiliy (or even a higher one) because of the AIM != PR
and with that also doubleskill or multiskill...

but despite this limitations im sure she would still be OP (of course she turns into a mindless tool and is controlled)....

do you guys agree?

Except, we already know that AIM doesn't work the way you just described. Volume NT 7 demonstrated that interfering with AIM allows you to interfere with the Esper that emits it, to the point where a skillful enough manipulation is only one step removed from actual mind control, as could be seen with the Agitate Halation incident. Even before that, the various anti-Esper technologies like Capacity Down can directly hurt Espers through their AIM field. Being able to change Abilities through AIM manipulation is nowhere near as far fetched as you believe it to be.

[LevelSeven]

Except, we already know that AIM doesn't work the way you just described. Volume NT 7 demonstrated that interfering with AIM allows you to interfere with the Esper that emits it, to the point where a skillful enough manipulation is only one step removed from actual mind control, as could be seen with the Agitate Halation incident. Even before that, the various anti-Esper technologies like Capacity Down can directly hurt Espers through their AIM field. Being able to change Abilities through AIM manipulation is nowhere near as far fetched as you believe it to be.

all of the things you mentioned are only temporary ability blocker....
this was what i wanted to say, her abilitys arent absolute against espers, at least as far as i understood aim stalker and her potential....

There's Aiwass, Aleister and maybe Accelerator's White Wings and IB. That's pretty much it.

until now: the black wings didnt do anything different than white wings , the white wings are only a bigger inexplicable power, the IT is the bigger version of IB...

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

all of the things you mentioned are only temporary ability blocker....
this was what i wanted to say, her abilitys arent absolute against espers, at least as far as i understood aim stalker and her potential....

Whether the manipulations are temporary or not is not the issue. You made the point that AIM stalker should not be able to influence Personal Realities because AIM is nothing more than an emanation of Personal Realities, therefore AIM manipulation can, at best, control an Esper's power but not its foundation.

However, it has been shown that AIM manipulation is not that simple. The effects it produces are more than skin deep, affecting even things that seemingly have no direct relation to the Esper's power. As such, manipulation of Personal Realities is not out of question. Furthermore:

Originally Posted by Volume 22

The woman in the helmet and suit continued.

“I’m sure you have a pretty good idea how things are going to be divided up from here on out.”

“…”

“Mugino Shizuri and Takitsubo Rikou will be immediately recovered. As for Hamazura Shiage, that is where things get a bit tricky…well, he just doesn’t fit the same conditions. There is a relationship there that could give him value as a hostage for Takitsubo, but Takitsubo Rikou does not have much in the way of physical ability, so mental restraints are not really necessary. We can just isolate her in a concrete room to do research on her. If we need to force her to do something, imbedding tiny balloons in her brain and then repeatedly applying pressure and relaxation to the cerebral cortex by remote control will suffice.”

“Wait,” Hamazura said as if cutting her off. “Research? On Takitsubo? Don’t you mean Mugino?”

“I’m sure at least those two have realized it.”

“Realized what?”

“When you defeated the unit with the masks tempered using Kakine Teitoku’s Dark Matter, Mugino Shizuri used Meltdowner. But Takitsubo did not simply guide her using words. Her AIM Stalker interferes with AIM diffusion fields. She used that and it had an effect on Mugino Shizuri’s Personal Reality and partially forced her aim into alignment. …Or perhaps it would be better to say she temporarily rewrote it with corrected information.”

Takitsubo's manipulation of Personal Realities isn't merely theoretical, it has been confirmed by an AC scientist and neither Takitsubo, who used the power, nor Mugino, who felt its effects, denied her claim. I'm pretty sure their words weigh more than yours.

For now her abilities are temporary in duration and limited in scope, but that's because she is only Level 4. Although Level 5 is merely one level over 4, the gap between those levels is astronomical. I have no problems believing that a Level 5 Takitsubo would be absolute within the field of Esper powers. I'll agree that if and when that happens it will be to the heroes disadvantage, though.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

until now: the black wings didnt do anything different than white wings , the white wings are only a bigger inexplicable power, the IT is the bigger version of IB...

Hence "maybe". Also, I still don't buy that IT is merely a bigger version of IB.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

As for the Aeon, since it uses Christianity as a base to interfere with other religions, it is safe to say that it is Osiris. Really, the number of Horus Aeon abilities we've seen so far can be counted on the fingers of one severely frostbitten hand. There's Aiwass, Aleister and maybe Accelerator's White Wings and IB. That's pretty much it.

I think it's safe to rule out IB. IB is just the blueprints, as such it doesn't needs to belong to any aeon, that's why Fiamma could use its flesh and that's why Aleister is working on IB, because he wants IB to be on Horus' side when the time comes for his big plan on its final stage.

[LevelSeven]

For now her abilities are temporary in duration and limited in scope, but that's because she is only Level 4. Although Level 5 is merely one level over 4, the gap between those levels is astronomical. I have no problems believing that a Level 5 Takitsubo would be absolute within the field of Esper powers. I'll agree that if and when that happens it will be to the heroes disadvantage, though.

it is only a speculation....
If rikou will reach lvl5 than she needs to have a hugh weakness, as OP being she needs to be a villian, therefore she will have weaknesses which should limit her powers, she is one of the good guys....
personally i wish for a controlled OP villian which will fight accel, so that we can find out more about his impossible/inexplicable powers
if they make it into a big arc (3-4 volumes) it would be fantastic

Hence "maybe". Also, I still don't buy that IT is merely a bigger version of IB.

until now i didnt see anything which would suggest another option, both powers only negated....
but we need a bit more before its certain, i think until now the chances are by 65%....