Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel Movie Discussion Thread

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Lorhand

Some people wanted Fate. Sure, and some people didn't want Shirou. And some are thankful Rin is supposedly the main character and not the useless idiot of a ginger kid. The point of this list is these comments are utter crap, not that they wanted Fate.

I wonder how they will react when Rin says "People die when they are killed, you know?" to Shirou. I can already see the hate when Shirou defeats Gil. That's why I don't read YT comments. It's a waste of time and not good for my health.

On the subject of Shirou and Gil I wonder if they'll fully explain Shirou's abilities in this since it's pretty much stand alone (not everyone will watch both the movies an this anime). It wasn't fully explained in UBW (the fact he actually copies the original owners of the weapons abilities and stats) and serves much better at explaining the fight than ignoring it like it did in the VN since it's explained in HF.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by mirakura

Lol, people actually wanted fate. Welp, judging from those, people are gonna be disappointed. Interesting opinions though.

People who wanted Fate were just the super diehard Saber fans (you can like Saber and not like the route or romance), those who hadn't played the game and don't realize there is more than a single route or heroine (quite a few judging by those posts), and those who don't realize how boring Fate route is compared to the other 2 routes (even Nasu admits it was poorly written but that isn't enough reason to ignore the other 2 just to have another go at it.)

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

People who wanted Fate were just the super diehard Saber fans (you can like Saber and not like the route or romance), those who hadn't played the game and don't realize there is more than a single route or heroine (quite a few judging by those posts), and those who don't realize how boring Fate route is compared to the other 2 routes (even Nasu admits it was poorly written but that isn't enough reason to ignore the other 2 just to have another go at it.)

But even then the consensus is:

VN Fate (both RN and original) >>>> DEEN anime series

which makes the situation and the impressions of both DEEN/FSN-only people, as well as DEEN/FSN+ufo/0-only people not very good about Shirou and FSN in general.

I have no idea though, how people who have only watched ufo/0 will react. Some will react like it could be observed in the youtube comments, but some may also be more open to, though misunderstandings will probably be unavoidable.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

VN Fate (both RN and original) >>>> DEEN anime series

That's like saying salted fries are better than non-salted fries. Sure, one's better, but it's not so much better that you should flip your lid over it.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by GDB

That's like saying salted fries are better than non-salted fries. Sure, one's better, but it's not so much better that you should flip your lid over it.

I fail to see a lot of the flak people give the deen anime. Other than a few weird filler, it was faithful to the route. There are going to likely be plenty of people who won't like the new scenes that they are adding to the UBW anime as well.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by GDB

That's like saying salted fries are better than non-salted fries. Sure, one's better, but it's not so much better that you should flip your lid over it.

I don't know. the DEEN anime was so boring that I dropped it at around EP3 (that's why I said "consensus is" in my earlier post because I cannot really evaluate it myself) and that was a time I wasn't even aware of the fact that it was produced by DEEN, so my DEEN hate bias was not even at work yet.

The VN was much more interesting compared to that, but maybe that was due to me committing the "sin" of watching the F/0 anime first.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I don't know. the DEEN anime was so boring that I dropped it at around EP3 (that's why I said "consensus is" because I cannot really evaluate it myself) and that was a time I wasn't even aware of the fact that it was produced by DEEN, so my DEEN hate bias was not even at work yet.

The VN was much more interesting compared to that, but maybe that was due to me committing the "sin" of watching the F/0 anime first.

That's not Deen, that's just the Fate route in general. There's a reason most fans consider it the least interesting route.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

That's not Deen, that's just the Fate route in general. There's a reason most fans consider it the least interesting route.

Well I did not feel the necessity to drop the VN during Fate, so that should count for something I guess?

When I watched the Umineko anime I had a very familar negative feeling while watching it and almost dropped it as well. Later on I got to know that both were done by DEEN.


The only anime by DEEN where I did not have that unpleasant feeling while watching the anime was Higurashi.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

I don't know. the DEEN anime was so boring that I dropped it at around EP3 (that's why I said "consensus is" in my earlier post because I cannot really evaluate it myself) and that was a time I wasn't even aware of the fact that it was produced by DEEN, so my DEEN hate bias was not even at work yet.

The VN was much more interesting compared to that, but maybe that was due to me committing the "sin" of watching the F/0 anime first.

I agree it was boring. I actually did drop it early on as well, only to actually watch it all the way through when the BD release came out.

Doesn't make the VN version that much better. I read it after the anime but before the UBW movie, and honestly if I didn't know UBW and HF were coming (despite not knowing anything about those routes), I'd have dropped it again.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Well I did not feel the necessity to drop the VN during Fate, so that should count for something I guess?

When I watched the Umineko anime I had a very familar negative feeling while watching it and almost dropped it as well. Later on I got to know that both were done by DEEN.


The only anime by DEEN where I did not have that unpleasant feeling while watching the anime was Higurashi.

What exactly would you say was "more interesting" about the VN compared to the anime? The anime was loyal to the VN so there wasn't much difference. The only real differences were the few instances of filler.

[Raziel1991]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

That's not Deen, that's just the Fate route in general. There's a reason most fans consider it the least interesting route.

You mean in english speaking communities right? Because in Japan the Fate route is by far the most popular route.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

What exactly would you say was "more interesting" about the VN compared to the anime? The anime was loyal to the VN so there wasn't much difference. The only real differences were the few instances of filler.

I don't remember why, but I definitly lost interest. It did not happen when reading the VN, but as I said, that may possibly be because I watched F/0 after dropping the DEEN anime, but before reading the VN.

For sake of comparison I will watch the prologue from both versions when the ufotable readaption is released. Maybe I'll watch the whole DEEN anime, just to find all the contradictions it supposedly has that I heard of, like "Flashback of Saber and Gil fighting in close range during the 4th HGW" and so on.

Originally Posted by Raziel1991

You mean in english speaking communities right? Because in Japan the Fate route is by far the most popular route.

Source? From what I heard the actual japanese Type-Moon polls resulted in Saber being the most popular character, BUT the Fate route being considered the worst route.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

The anime had a decent/good Archer fight that wasn't even in the VN (completely offpanel). Hell it's main thing that series is even known for outside f helping to popularising Saber. So pretending it's the worst thing ever is kind of dishonest. All in all it wasn't all that much worse than the fate route itself.

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

That's not Deen, that's just the Fate route in general. There's a reason most fans consider it the least interesting route.

Uhh, so cos it doesn't have as much info seeing as it's the intro means it's the most boring...yeah. I see. And, yes, it is DEEN. I know there are people who don't even try to watch something just because of animation or if the adaptation isn't as good as the original. Especially with the fillers. Well, before I come close to ranting, it would be best not to compare it to the other routes, the only reason it would be considered boring is cos it doesn't have as much info and twists as the other routes. Really, the only twist in Fate is the Gil thing, and the start of Shirou's tracing. UBW had a bunch of action and it had a good twist, and HF is literally knowledge packed. I wouldn't call it 'most fans'. Here, maybe, it's probably different in Japan. You can't say 'most' without an actual survey of the opinions in Japan as well so, there's that too. Also, if you're gonna state it like that, I should put 'I hate HF' at the end of each my posts. Cos, I don't think some people understand what the words 'sugar-coat' or 'subtly'. Lol, you get mad at my rants when it's you causing them. It doesn't change the message, but it still makes it easier to take in. I like UBW, as best route, it's nice and has a good Shirou. Saber's position is ok, and Rin X Shirou is hilarious. I'm not ranting btw, and it's impossible for me to ignore when he puts it like that, so don't count on it GBD.

Now, since Fate isn't getting animated, let's talk about HF and UBW! :3

[GreyZone]

New Topic:

Do you think Shirou will chant his version of the UBW Aria in Japanese as he did in the VN, or in English?

[mirakura]

Don't you mean.....Engrish?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by mirakura

Don't you mean.....Engrish?

yes

[mirakura]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

yes

EMIYA's english accents is awesome :3

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Japanese I imagine. There's a reason why he didn't in the VN and that's because the voice actor isn't very proficient in engrish and Shirou himself canonically isn't all that proficient. Though you could perhaps hand wave that Archer's memories/copying.

[Amarantine]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

What exactly would you say was "more interesting" about the VN compared to the anime? The anime was loyal to the VN so there wasn't much difference. The only real differences were the few instances of filler.

While I agree the Fate route was pretty average even in the VN, DEEN's adaptation still managed to be worse, and not just because of the "filler". That definitely hurt it too, as their attempt to mix stuff from other routes was clumsy at best, with the whole sideplot with Caster and bondage Sakura being a particularly botched attempt at including some of HF in the story. But the biggest problem DEEN's F/SN had was definitely their portrayal of Shirou, which was downright terrible.

Remember what the ufotable director said about Shirou coming off as very irritating and unlikable if he's not properly portrayed? I think he had the DEEN anime in mind when he said that, because that's exactly what happened in that adaptation. DEEN basically ignored all of Shirou's inner monologues and completely failed to illustrate why he acts the way the does, so he came off as just a (sexist) moron in the anime, instead of the damaged and broken human being he actually is. In the anime no reason is ever really given for his lack of regard for his own safety, whereas in the VN it's made clear that his willingness to sacrifice himself for everyone and anyone is not just stupidity but downright pathological and a result of the extreme case of survivor's guilt which he was left with after the fire.

The scene in the basement where Kotomine tries to tempt Shirou (and Saber) with the chance to redo things, for example, was pitifully rushed and glossed over by DEEN, as with any other chance they had to properly convey why Shirou is the way he is and why he acts the way he does. Naturally, I don't think I've ever met anyone who's only watched the DEEN anime that likes him. Most can't stand his guts, in fact. And neither did I until I read the VN, where I liked Shirou even in the Fate route.

That was the main problem to me, and one sufficiently bad to hamper the whole experience, but there were other things too. For one, other than Archer vs Berserker (and a bit of Saber vs Assassin), none of the fights were worth a damn. The animation was generally subpar and they really failed to portray the Servants' superhuman strength and speed. Just compare the impact of the attacks in Saber vs Lancer from DEEN's F/SN with the stuff in Saber vs Lancer (Diarmuid) from ufotable's F/Z. There's a world of difference.

So yes, while I do think DEEN sometimes gets too much flack, as the Fate route was hardly stellar even in the VN, they still managed to botch key aspects of it in their adaptation and worsen a story that was already average to begin with.