2011-08-31, 10:18 | Link #24021 | |||
Restless Ghost
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Anyway, the idea that he might be intentionally slipping more clues through the adaptations and new TIPS fills me with a shy kind of hope. He said he'd be doing something like that in the manga, didn't he? Do we still have a chance of getting some answers? Do I dare hope? |
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2011-08-31, 10:30 | Link #24022 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Though I tend to think Sakutaro wasn't made by Rose. He was merely a stuffed toy she bought for Maria, probably the kind that's not that popular so she wouldn't see it in any toy shop. On the other side it's also possible after handmaking Sakutaro for Maria Rosa considered having her company producing it. If I'm not wrong Rosa's company produced clothes but I guess they could have tried to add a stuffed toy to her own production (maybe Rosa though since Maria liked Sakutaro so much that meant that toy was going to be a secure selling success...). |
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2011-08-31, 10:43 | Link #24023 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal
Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only *choke* Considering how the red truth was portrayed in this episode, it really looks like she made more than one. The issue is whether or not the ones Ange found where made by her or someone else. Its kinda weird that in the futon shop that only sells futons and pillows has a bag full of lions just hanging out there. |
2011-08-31, 11:12 | Link #24024 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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So here's my 'climbing on the mirrors' attempt: Beatrice didn't lie when she said Rosa made Sakutaro for her birthday and that he is unique as in Sakutaro was really made by Rosa and therefore he's one of a kind. However Rosa (or someone else) later decided to mass produce the Sakutaro. The mass produced Sakutaro aren't handmade by Rosa so Sakutaro stay as the only one who's handmade by her and therefore is unique. However, if Ange were to see one of the mass produced Sakutaro she might end up mistaking it for a mirror copy of the real Sakutaro. Since Ange gave Maria the new Sakutaro in a meta/magic scene that might exist only in her mind (or Toya if he is the one behind Meta Ange existence) Maria might have been fooled into accepting what wasn't Sakutaro but just a copy, merely because the one who handed 'Sakutaro' though what was being handed was Sakutaro and therefore the object handed looked exactly like Sakutaro. ... though I have fun thinking at all those alternate solutions what annoys me in Umineko is that even the most obvious truth can't be taken at face value and IN THE END we're rarely given the chance to find out if our alternate solution was right. Personally I preferred to think Rosa had made another Sakutaro and by mistake had left it in the ship and Ange merely found it... however I doubt she handmade that many... |
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2011-08-31, 11:21 | Link #24025 | |
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EDIT: Took too long while posting ^^° |
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2011-08-31, 11:24 | Link #24026 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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The alternative of course is that the ep4 sequence of events is just a fiction itself and Sakutarou dolls were only mass-produced later after Ange started writing books about him. She was thus able to "restore" Sakutarou to life by writing about him.
It's a ~~~metaphor~~~ Assuming the part where she became a writer isn't also fiction, anyway.
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2011-08-31, 11:25 | Link #24027 | ||
Restless Ghost
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Though, when you put things that way, I can (unfortunately) believe that there would be people morbid enough to turn a famous murder case victim's toy into merchandising... Still, It's easier for me to believe she just bought the toy and told Maria a little white lie. It fits with what I understand of her character. Quote:
I'll have to check the other two cases where this hapens, the one about asumu in ep4 and the one said by bern in ep7 (am I missing any?) But I think they don't help much. IIRC, the first is a sentence that doesn't really say anything without the missing part. You could say that what's in red is true, but it just doesn't say much. And second one is more complicated, because what does get to be said in red is a complete sentence on it's own. Actually, now that I think about it, if you believe that Sakutarou was made by Rosa, you would necessarely have to believe that the ep7 tea party is true as well. Hm... Last edited by naever; 2011-08-31 at 11:53. |
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2011-08-31, 11:28 | Link #24028 | |||||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Fucking Witch Hunters. |
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2011-08-31, 12:01 | Link #24029 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Would anyone besides Tohya, Ange, Eva, and maybe Kawabata actually have any idea what Maria's Sakutarou looked like? Based on Ootsuki's reaction in Alliance, none of the Witch Hunters have ever seen Maria's diary, so the only description they could possibly go off of would be the one written in Alliance itself. And since Alliance was released well after the mass-produced Sakutarous, there's no way it could be the source material.
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2011-08-31, 12:02 | Link #24030 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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What I'm trying to say is these are probably not good people.
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2011-08-31, 12:06 | Link #24031 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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2011-08-31, 12:15 | Link #24032 | |||||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Sakutaro would still unique as the others are Sakutaro's little brothers, Maria would be happy because undirectly she and Sakutaro are helping mom and Rosa could get away with it. Quote:
'Want to make a trip to Rokkenjima? Then why don't you buy the toy of one of the victims?' Also they could be fake Sakutaro that are sold as if they were real to collectors of things related to the Rokkenjima massacre... Quote:
"Oh, are you going to give that to your daughter as a present? It's lovely I wish I could buy one for my daughter as well?" Quote:
If they do things well you'll see them on TV in some program praising their smart idea... if they fail you'll never see them again. Quote:
Uh? Why is that? |
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2011-08-31, 12:19 | Link #24033 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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The lady that talked with Rosa even said they knew Maria went to buy dinner by herself too often was because lot of people recognized her due to the lion she carried around. Sakutaro has a simple design so really, it was easy to find out who could describe Sakutaro close enough to reproduce him. |
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2011-08-31, 12:45 | Link #24034 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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I suppose you could argue ghoulish obsession, and assume that somehow a Witch Hunter found one of the small group of people who knew Maria and interrogated them without being told to get lost. But then, think back. Can you remember a stuffed animal you saw several years ago? How about well enough to reproduce it perfectly? Or can you only remember on the level of "it was some kind of yellow lion, I think"?
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2011-08-31, 13:01 | Link #24035 | ||
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The meta, as all the meta didn't really take place in the real world, so as long as Ange believe that was Sakutaro, that was Sakutaro in the meta world. |
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2011-08-31, 13:09 | Link #24036 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2011-08-31, 13:27 | Link #24037 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Of course it's possible that Umineko couldn't care less about this sort of details. Ryukishi admitted he didn't care about the fact his characters should get wet when they walk out the house. Should he care about the odds of exactly reproducing a stuffed lion? We'll never know... -_- |
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2011-08-31, 13:43 | Link #24038 | |
The True Culprit
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2011-08-31, 13:59 | Link #24039 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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I put out the idea as a joke. But since it's somehow garnered some serious discussion it's got me thinking too.
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So it basically all hinges on whether a photograph of Maria with Sakutarou ended up in the hands of the Witch Hunters. |
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2011-08-31, 14:16 | Link #24040 | |
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