Justice League (2017)

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

My biggest gripe with the trailer is that all the stuff about Superman being a beacon of hope and letting people see the best part of themselves seem really forced and undeserved.

Oh yeah, I really cringed at that part. Given how Superman was treated in Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman, suddenly declaring that he's some "beacon of hope that makes people see the best part of themselves" makes me want to bash something hard. That label may apply to every other Superman, but not Snyder's version of him, especially not with the focus on Superman being a monstrous superpowered being instead of being the paragon of good.

Hell, I'd apply that label more to Wonder Woman here than Superman.

[Ruki0089]

I hope if this one end up like MoS and BvS, it won't end DCCU...

[Yui Is My Wife]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Nice to see how they finally realized that it's not wrong to have fun with superheroes.

My biggest gripe with the trailer is that all the stuff about Superman being a beacon of hope and letting people see the best part of themselves seem really forced and undeserved.

Who ELSE had to hold back the urge to vomit in disgust watching Man of Steel when the Daily Planet reporters crawling out of the rubble, with quivering tearful worshipful voices whimpered...

"He saved us all!"

... as the camera pulls back to reveal the gray, apocalyptic wasteland of crumbling and burning ruins that idiot Clark Kent made of out of Metropolis by crashing a fucking city-block sized spaceship into it.

This is no savior. It's a monster.

[Chosen_Hero]

^Yeah, how could they have forgotten how Superman was the one that brought the terra-forming machines that caused the vast majority of the destruction. He truly was a monster for trying to stop a super powered Zod from annihilating all human life as revenge for stopping the rebirth of the mighty kryptonian people that would have end up with humans either extinct or enslaved, Zod was always the true hero, he should have let him killed that innocent family. I mean, what wad he doing for that week that he was learning about himself, didn't he know that there wasn't anytime left and should have just been perfect from the get go? So he was just literally starting to become Superman, doesn't he know trial and error and training doesn't matter at all?

Also, how dare Superman feel the weight of being seen as a messiah by half the world the other half sees him as a false prophet and both sides blame him when he isn't anything less than perfect. How dare he have human emotions and thoughts like guilt and doubt about his position in the world, I mean how selfish do you have to be to sacrifice your life to stop a monster that is almost unstoppable?

Then there is the whole Martha thing, what was he thinking by not forcing Lex to tell him where she was? How dare he not keep tabs on his mother 24/7 like an all seeing god? Is it so hard to memorize her heartbeat or to keep listening to her voice 24/7 just in case she gets ingo trouble he never expected to arise? I mean it's not like he would need to concentrate to pick out her voice from a measly few 7 billion people on the planet. And I have to say, what an asshole for trying to not fight Batman seriously, but instead trying to ask for his help to save his mother, I mean, how much of a shit show do you have to be to be willing to die just to give your mother a chance to be rescued? How much of a monster do you have to be to plea to your opponent that you have no qualms with? Why did he even have to say her name instead of save my mother? Shouldn't Batman have known his entire history of being adopted by humans and having being raised as one? He is the fucking Batman how could he not have known something so simple about an all powerful alien he had just met that barely anyone outside of those few that knew him personally and intimately would know? Who ever heard of two heroes working together to fool a psychotic villain with nothing to lose? That never happens.

You are right, he is a monster and he should feel bad about it. No one asked him to die stopping Doomsday thereby saving the world from a rampaging kryptonian demon thing. And just how stupid is it of the people of their world to have learned too late of how much his existence actually meant to them and how important he was to a world that was already losing hope before he died? How dare they lose even more hope?

Giving Superman a character arc was the worst thing they could have done, he should have been a gary stu all along.

Truly, truly disgusting, now excuse me I think MoS, BvS and the Justice League trailer gave me explosive diarreah and the black plague, I need to go see a doctor.

[OH&S]

^
Sarcasm noted. But none of that made Superman inspiring or anything.

[Chosen_Hero]

^Neither does killing every villain or creating them, yet the majority of Marvel heroes get praised for doing so in every movie. Meanwhile, just because Superman doesn't crack a smile during a trying time of his life he is treated like a monster by the "fans".

[OH&S]

^
...lets not confuse words here. I didn't use the word praiseworthy; I said inspiring. Forget Marvel and just focus on DC:

Wonder Woman was inspiring; Superman was not.

It was less the fault of the writing and more the vision and direction of Snyder that got in the way of Superman being inspiring.

[MeoTwister5]

Would have been so much better if we didn't get the Messiah metaphor shoved down our throats at every opportunity.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by OH&S

^
...lets not confuse words here. I didn't use the word praiseworthy; I said inspiring. Forget Marvel and just focus on DC:

Wonder Woman was inspiring; Superman was not.

It was less the fault of the writing and more the vision and direction of Snyder that got in the way of Superman being inspiring.

Yes what she did was inspiring (walking through a field that was impossible to criss without dying), especially in unverse. But, anyone that did that would have become an inspiration at that moment, especially in the middle of a war. Also, it not like the others didn't want to do the same, they just knew their limits as us mortals tend to do (except Batman, but well... He is Batman). Besides, there was nothing heroic about her throwing a tantrum at the end and swearing revenge for the death of the village, she literally ignored the warehouse and plane full of the very same poison that killed the village just to go and kill Ares in a fit of rage. If anything Steve and the guys were the ones that felt the most heroic at the end.

To us the viewers the fight scene in no man's land and the village wad just an awesome and well done fight scene. It only felt inspiring to us because she was beating down the bad guys in cool ways, nothing more, nothing less. But as I said, in universe it's an entirely different story.

Superman stopped and invasion by his own people and even sacrificed the survival of his own race to save humanity, but let's forget that because he couldn't fight a crazed super powered killer and saved everyone in one move. Let's instead focus on him snapping the bad guy's neck and ignore that it was literally the last resort and that he was about to disintegrate an innocent family.

These movies aren't about US the viewers being inspired and that line in the trailer isn't meant to be viewed from our perspective. In his own universe for the small time he was Superman he became an inspiration and a symbol of hope to some (remember how there was that montage where the people in the flood wrote the symbol on the roof of the house or the part where the crowd surrounded him?) and the reverse to others (The crowd outside of the court holding signs that called him a false prophet or Lex viewing him as an unnecessary piece to humanity's future). You (or anyone else) can't just use your viewpoint as an outsider to claim that in universe he was never an inspiration to anyone and that the movie claiming so is bs.

That he wasn't an inspiration to you personally =/= that in his world he wasn't.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

This is no savior. It's a monster.

That's taking it a bit far. I don't find this version of Superman the least bit inspiring, but I certainly wouldn't call him a monster.

@Chosen Hero : They can claim that he was an inspiring guy that let people see the good in themselves all they want, but the audience is under no obligation to agree with that interpretation of the character. It's part of the reason show, don't tell exists. You have a much easier time selling that to watchers when you actually show us scenes of him helping people see the best in themselves. Even in the scenes you mentioned, he doesn't talk with any of those people and barely interacts with them beyond acknowledging that they exist.

For example in this season's isekai series Isekai wa Smartphone to Tomo ni you can have an entire episode with characters talking about what a deep, complex, and multi layered person the MC is, but if there are no scenes that back up that interpretation, you shouldn't be surprised if people take issue with it. If you tell us a character has a certain attribute, but don't actually show it, then at best it comes off as informed attribute and at worst undeserved character shilling.

[LoweGear]

My benchmark for heroic "inspiration" is essentially the ability to make other people ACT through their own volition.

Wonder Woman in her film inspired the scared soldiers behind her to seize the opportunity and join her in an attack against the enemy lines; Captain America in Winter Soldier movie manages to get those loyal to SHIELD to rise up and join him against HYDRA amidst an atmosphere of confusion.

Superman in MoS and BvS though, he saves people and.... gets fawned over. Yes, that's part and parcel of being a superhero, but he's not being inspiring in that case, and the few people we do see move are those who would've done so without him anyway. Well, most Superman movies are like that yes, but in this case Superman himself never seems like he actually enjoys being a superhero, unlike the previous movies where we do see Superman crack a smile at his good deeds - you can hardly inspire others if you don't seem like you're inspired yourself. And of course, BvS spends more time lambasting Superman as a superpowered god-like being who they treat like someone that could suddenly turn against them at any time like some kind of dog. It's difficult to believe that they'll suddenly say that Superman is some inspiring figure, when they don't really convey that very well in words or actions.

Another part of what makes it difficult to see Superman in such a light is the aforementioned carelessness and callousness for mass destruction he has. Yes, big fights and collateral damage are a staple of Superhero films, but at the least most heroes try to save lives along the way while trying to vanquish the big bad - for example in Age of Ultron Iron Man and Hulk are similarly superpowered fighters slugging it out in a city, but we know that Tony Stark at least cares because he does make multiple attempts to limit collateral damage and save lives even in the middle of his battle against the hulk, like save that falling elevator or checking if a building is empty first before crashing the Hulk through it. Superman in MoS appears inconsiderate, turning blocks of Metropolis into shattered wasteland, without even a token attempt to limit collateral damage or care about the people except the end. Well, there was that save of the helicopter in Smallville which is a point for Superman, but otherwise he just barrels his enemies through buildings and property seemingly without regard for anything else.

It's very much like that image of Ultraman (which I can't find) where the caption says "The Day is Saved", and yet we see Ultraman standing triumphantly amidst the burning wreckage of buildings all around him. It's rather hard to be inspired by someone with such callous disregard for those he's supposed to save, at the very least make the effort.

[Ithekro]

Certainly wasn't an early 80s Superman story (Christopher Reeves era)

[OH&S]

^
Well, that itself isn't an issue. There's no way an early 80s Superman would work in the modern era. So the idea of giving him a character arc and such itself isn't wrong.

As I said before, the issue is less the writing and more the vision and direction of Snyder.

Recently I came across Superman Comic cover that perfectly encapsulates what sort of inspiration movie Superman should have been generating:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

As has been said, the scenes in BvS where this should have been happenning were drowned out in depression and and what looks to be essentially worship (as Superman is Snyder's Jesus if that hasn't been made apparent). The decision to frame it like this to serve some sort of character arc for Superman is all on Snyder. And I don't think I'm alone in not seeing the supposed inspiration that this generated in the in-movie's population.

[MrTerrorist]

Latest Trailer.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

^ So... does anybody notice the much-talked-about CG mustache-removal on Henry Cavill in the trailer above?

[MeoTwister5]

Justice League to run at just 119 minutes after the reshoots.

So the reshoots were made to make the movie lighter in tone, and the studio CEO mandated a shorter running time.

In other words more executive meddling, probably in part due to due to the influence of Marvel's runaway success. This is seriously looking like it's not going to end well.

[B214]

The movie is decent actually. Much better than i actually place my expectation on.

Spoiler for spoilers:

Though i notice the scene where Alfred was talking to someone in the trailer is missing, so is the line where Steppenwolf saying "No Lanterns"

[AnimeFan188]

Zack Snyder Fans Petition For The Release of His Cut of Justice
League As Deleted Scenes Leak Online:

"People who like Zack Snyder and his work have a tendency to really like Zack Snyder
and his work. So it’s no surprise that the shifts late in Justice League’s production, which
include a hefty infusion of Joss Whedon-helmed reshoots and directorial judgments,
would be unpalatable to Snyder’s diehards.

Thus enter that old mainstay of angry internet mobs everywhere: the Change.org
petition. This one, created by Roberto Mata of San Juan, Puerto Rico, has amassed over
33,000 signatures in just a few days, as of press time, close to its goal of 35,000. The
petition, aimed at Warner Bros. itself, requests the release of “Zack Snyder’s Director
Cut and Tom Holkenborg’s (Junkie XL) Score” for home release."

See:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/zack-snyder-...-of-1820586516

[Ruki0089]

Hmm, the movie is... Quite decent... Erm... That's not right... Erm...not bad...

[Von Himmel]

Yeah I really like the movie though I was hoping for more Green Lantern or probably Shazam reference. Kinda killing my hope since Steppenwolf didn't even say 'no lantern' things in the movie unlike the trailer..

Also I think I like Steppenwolf than Hel from the Thor movie since in here he at least seems menancing for most of the movie. However him quickly becoming a joke after

Spoiler:

Superman coming in

really left a bad taste for me.