US Elections 2008

[Cherudim Arche]

The cave of ordeal is waiting for them, if not then, it would be the presidency. Anyway, there is no escape from such high profile trials. It is like walking on thin ice, you don't know where the crack is, but it is always a high possibility.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

Palin got killed by Katie Couric
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4479062.shtml

and now she has a video up in youtube doing some voodoo stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkb9_zB2Pg

Not a day goes by without her doing something interesting. She's ready to step into the presidency alright.


Obama should just debate a potato if McCain doesn't show up.

wow...Katie is usually a fail with follow-up questions (pursuing points long lost or letting stuff fall). Here, for once, she doesn't really have to follow up -- Palin just killed herself on the Kissinger faux pas and the Israeli relationship.

Prediction for McCain campaign strategy til election: hide and avoid questioning, pump out the "god and country" ads, pump out the 'mavericks' theme, pump out the "fear" ads.

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by Vexx

wow...Katie is usually a fail with follow-up questions (pursuing points long lost or letting stuff fall). Here, for once, she doesn't really have to follow up -- Palin just killed herself on the Kissinger faux pas and the Israeli relationship.

Prediction for McCain campaign strategy til election: hide and avoid questioning, pump out the "god and country" ads, pump out the 'mavericks' theme, pump out the "fear" ads.

and hope it doesn't backfire

[mg1942]

Ok, I just watched the interview with Katie...

What a train wreck!
At one moment, I thought English is her second language.

That is NOT the Palin I know when I watched her interview with Sean Hannity (FOX).

[Cherudim Arche]

She will always be a train wreck despite preparations.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by mg1942

That is NOT the Palin I know when I saw her being interviewed by Sean Hannity last week.

Sean Hannity was pretty much humping her leg. That guy is way far right he's off the charts. I wouldn't be surprised if she was given the list of questions that's going to be asked prior to the interview.

They are probably going let her be interview by right wing media after what happened with Katie. Basically anyone on fox, Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck.

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

Sean Hannity was pretty much humping her leg. I wouldn't be surprised if she was given the list of questions that's going to be asked prior to the interview.

Interrogation style

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

Sean Hannity was pretty much humping her leg. That guy is way far right he's off the charts. I wouldn't be surprised if she was given the list of questions that's going to be asked prior to the interview.

They are probably going let her be interview by right wing media after what happened with Katie. Basically anyone on fox, Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck.

The rest of MSNBC crew too. Look at Olbermann for example. He picks on Palin and McCain endlessly (minus the hate aura of Sean Hannity). I tune back to FOX new only to see Sean Hannity defending the 11 year old boy who wore "Obama: A terrorists best friend" t-shirt.

This is just hilarious!

I don't know about CNN, but looks like they're using BBC as an example to stay unbiased

[Vexx]

Hmmm, interesting analysis link below -- ymmv on its main points:
Kerry 2 vs Bush 3 is the theme because "same old show" gets rewarded by the Machine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200....AXw2lH4GMwfIE

FOX new only to see Sean Hannity defending the 11 year old boy who wore "Obama: A terrorists best friend" t-shirt.

Yup... anything but the issues... I actually agree he should not have been suspended. People need to be alerted about the boy's clue-meter and the shirt was a wonderful solution

[mg1942]

He wasn't suspended for wearing the shirt. He was suspended for refusing to take it off or cover it (with a sweater or jacket at least).

[Vexx]

.... in other words, he was ordered to "make it go away".

Usually schools use the fairly lame excuse that controversial clothing is damaging or distracting to the educational environment. This, of course, is bull pucks. At best, its a "maintain order" issue.

I strongly disagree with the content of the shirt (I think McCain is a walking recruitment poster for disaffected youth of the world to become terrorists - yes that's hyperbole as well )
I think it just conveys the boy's (parents) cluelessness about the real issues confronting voters. But I strongly support his right to wear it - even in school. It isn't obscene, it isn't racist, it doesn't make religious assertions - it is simply a political opinion. He ought to have to defend the shirt's assertion in government/civics class or let the debate team go after him. *that* would be educational.

But too many schools are about locking down -- keeping things so locked down that the internet access is useless, that topics aren't discussed, stifling the possiblity of debate, independent thought, and discussion because they're scared of angry parents. So... they end up angering the other parents.

[Anh_Minh]

The parents who are too civilized to be noisy about it?

[mg1942]

All the school needs to do is prove the shirt caused a disruption, or that it might "genuinely threaten disruption". The supreme court precedent is pretty cut and dry on this matter.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Archer

Disaster at the bipartisan rescue meeting.

McCain comes in and promptly nukes the current proposal in order to introduce a completely new proposal that he just came up with that afternoon. Chaos ensues.




Can you say Market Freefall?

McCain's Hail Mary came alittle bit short.

and major problems is coming from House Repubs side, Great Job on that attempt tho, McCain. I think that with this mistake and Palin awesome job with that interview and other stuff, I think that McCain/Palin will lose this election now and if they do, then we will have some serious problems.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Vexx

It isn't obscene, it isn't racist, it doesn't make religious assertions - it is simply a political opinion.

Ok, then it's defamation of character. I wonder if he showed up to his school and the shirt said "My Principal supports terrorism".

If his shirt just said "I don't like Obama", then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But that's not the case here, he's being slanderous under the guise of opinion and using free speech to hide behind that slander. Can he prove his statement? No. He's making a "statement" on false (or at the least, unprovable) assumptions and trying to make Obama look bad by doing so.

I'd say the same things if it was McCain or Bush instead of Obama, for the record.

While I'm certainly in agreement with you on regards to the moronic policies of school systems these days, I believe they were justified in this particular case.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Solace

Ok, then it's defamation of character. I wonder if he showed up to his school and the shirt said "My Principal supports terrorism".

If his shirt just said "I don't like Obama", then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But that's not the case here, he's being slanderous under the guise of opinion and using free speech to hide behind that slander. Can he prove his statement? No. He's making a "statement" on false (or at the least, unprovable) assumptions and trying to make Obama look bad by doing so.

As an aside, if the child or his parent had said that the shirt was aimed at pointing out the brief relationship between Obama and William "Bill" Ayers, would you consider the shirt to be acceptable, or at least less slanderous? (Obama did know Ayers (though their time together was brief at best), and Ayers was a "terrorist" of sorts, so the shirt's description of Obama being a "friend" of terrorists (though calling Obama a "best friend" is an exaggeration) could then be seen as a criticism of any involvement Obama had with Ayers.)

[Solace]

Originally Posted by james0246

As an aside, if the child or his parent had said that the shirt was aimed at pointing out the brief relationship between Obama and William "Bill" Ayers, would you consider the shirt to be acceptable, or at least less slanderous? (Obama did know Ayers (though the time of their connection was short at best), and Ayers was a "terrorist" of sorts, so the shirt's description Obama being a "friend" of terrorists could then be seen as a criticism of any involvement Obama had with Ayers.)

Yes. In fact, I would have (if I were a teacher there) taken up on Vexx's suggestion of using it as an educational tool either way. Ignorance can be used for education when in the right context - I would say that a teacher using the shirt to educate the student and his class to elevate him and possibly his peers above ignorance would be a wonderful thing. I doubt that will happen though. It's the nature of schools these days to avoid any possible controversy even to the point of limiting learning opportunities.

But I haven't read any mention of the child or parents reasoning behind the statement on the shirt being for that connection so I doubt they used the shirt for anything more than a public statement of displeasure based on personal belief.

While nothing inherently wrong with that, it does present a problem when making bold statements and not presenting facts to back them up. If the shirt was a little less sensational, and a valid reason given for the statement, and the school system not afraid of angry parents and lawsuits, I could see it being acceptable and even encouraged. Pride in youth learning about politics, civic duty, etc.

But that's a lot of "ifs" and in general not reflective of how things work in the public system these days.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Solace

But I haven't read any mention of the child or parents reasoning behind the statement on the shirt being for that connection so I doubt they used the shirt for anything more than a public statement of displeasure based on personal belief.

While nothing inherently wrong with that, it does present a problem when making bold statements and not presenting facts to back them up. If the shirt was a little less sensational, and a valid reason given for the statement, and the school system not afraid of angry parents and lawsuits, I could see it being acceptable and even encouraged. Pride in youth learning about politics, civic duty, etc.

But that's a lot of "ifs" and in general not reflective of how things work in the public system these days.

Okay, this is more or less my stance as well. Sensationalism has no part in the school environment, especially unfounded sensationalism that is probably influenced by ignorance and/or arrogance (which, as you have hinted at, is undoubtedly what the parent and child were basing their entire "point" around).

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Solace

Ok, then it's defamation of character. I wonder if he showed up to his school and the shirt said "My Principal supports terrorism".

I agree. Also keep in mind the current climate of our society. "Terrorist" is the new "communist" which, in its day, was the new "witch." As stupid as it is and as much as I wish people wouldn't be so foolish about such things, I wouldn't be surprised if calling someone a terrorist (or even a supporter of terrorism) could realistically get a mob after them.

I only think Solace's analogy could be taken a step further. How far would a kid get if he wore a shirt that said "my principle is a pedophile"? Pedophiles are yet another "danger designation" in our society. As a result, that isn't a term that should be thrown around lightly.

I wouldn't say that the child should be thrown into jail or anything of that sort, but I can understand why the school would have asked it to be removed. Politics are charged enough as it is, and the shirt had an inflammatory statement on it (I would call it "-1 flamebait"). It had the potential to be disruptive with no good reason, and worse, with nothing positive to contribute.

[Sassarai]

The guy should be thrown in jail for child abuse for using his as a political tool. Seriously I doubt the kid at 11 years old really cares about politics.