AnimeSuki Forums

**Klashikari** · 2012-05-29, 08:09

Just to add some "oil to the fire", Ryukishi explained during Epitanime that Bernkastel serves as the direct link between Higurashi and Umineko (he did NOT refer it as a cameo, to which are things such like RGD Philiph Butler <=> Ushiromiya Battler, and Higurashi as a novel in Umineko).
I can testify he basically confirmed the whole "drifting frederica turning into umi bern".

Wanderer · 2012-05-29, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

Jan-Poo, I do like your idea about Bern just being Ikuko's cat, which would make sense looking at Umineko by itself, but adding Ikuko into it while talking about Higurashi would make Higurashi seem...weird.

Although Featherine is a clear reference to Hanyuu.

Thunder Book · 2012-05-29, 23:33

I never really understood the point of that. Why did Ryu07 go out of his way to make Featherine a reference to Hanyuu? What does that do for the story?

battle22 · 2012-05-30, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

I never really understood the point of that. Why did Ryu07 go out of his way to make Featherine a reference to Hanyuu? What does that do for the story?

Fanservice.

Thunder Book · 2012-05-30, 01:45

It seems like most of the other fanservice serves some kind of point in the story, though. I can't really think of one for Featherine resembling Hanyuu.

AuraTwilight · 2012-05-30, 02:23

Symbolically, both characters represent the "final plot twists" that tie together everything. Hanyuu is the one supernatural thing in Higurashi that allows the plot to happen, and in Umineko, Featherine symbolizes the existence if Ikuko Hachijou, who's revelation explains like a good 70% of the remaining mysteries of Umineko easily.

GuestSpeaker · 2012-05-30, 09:38

Do you mean her existence solved the riddles? Or the info she dished out?

AuraTwilight · 2012-05-30, 12:06

Both, really. The existence of Ikuko, and thus the existence of the amnesiac Toya, pretty much solves all of 1998 and huge chunks of 1986. AND, it was her that explained that all the arcs are written stories, just like Hanyuu explained that it was a timeloop.

GuestSpeaker · 2012-05-31, 05:25

Of course, amnesia solves all mysteries. Didn't you know?

**Klashikari** · 2012-05-31, 05:28

That's why it is explicitely stated it is Ikuko involvement that solves the setup for Umineko.
Tohya's amnesia actually explains Battler's full progress from Ep1 to 5, which explains the various "cannot compute" scenes for him, and the reason why he literally switch side once he realize what's up with meta beato.

GuestSpeaker · 2012-05-31, 06:15

Quote:

cannot compute

I assume you refer to his "who am I" freakout and his "maybe I am an imposter who was the criminal" one. But I don't know what you mean by "up with meta-Beato".

**Klashikari** · 2012-05-31, 06:32

You can say that Meta Battler is basically "Battler's Identity" lurking in Tohya's mind, who is basically struggling to figure what happened, as "Ushiromiya Battler" memories literally surge in him.

As for Meta Beato, the whole concept is that she was hell bent trying to make Meta Battler remembering what happened (otherwise, the whole tragedy would be awfully moot). It is basically yet again a huge reference to the Divine Comedy, and Meta Battler only realizes this mess by the end of ep5.

GuestSpeaker · 2012-05-31, 08:41

Oh that, well yes that theory works at the meta level and seems to be correct. Though it did always get messy when you try and consider what secret he was protecting and how he could forgive her so quickly.

**Klashikari** · 2012-05-31, 08:49

It isn't like Battler "forgave her" that quickly. It is more like he literally realized that Beatrice hardly should be the object of his hatred, as it doesn't make sense in the beginning.

Hell, Ep1-4 was weird in that context: Meta Battler kept being aggressive towards Beato, yet claims she isn't the culprit. That stance is basically an oxymoron right from the start, since there is no way for Beatrice to be the culprit if the latter is indeed human.
Past his hatred being quenched, Meta Battler finally realizes that Meta Beatro tried exactly what Yasu did to "Human Battler", as in: stirring Battler with mysteries so he can finally remember what they shared before. This is the very reason why we have a scene between Piece Beato (Yasu) and Meta Beato discussing when Yasu just finally gave up in Ep4, which lead the whole issue in the Meta level, instead of the gameboard level.

To put it simply, Meta Battler realized way too late the various hints and the whole play Meta Beato has set to him for the very purpose of making him realize that "no, there isn't any Beatrice, but also, there isn't any actual occult murders, but a ploy behind it".

moichispa · 2012-05-31, 10:41

It seems there is a place on 07expansion party with twitter profile pictures of almost all females of their works.

Lion also appears. What do you think everybody?

TwilightsCall · 2012-05-31, 10:48

Finally, there is some solid evidence to back up my stubborn disbelief in Lion's malehood!

**Klashikari** · 2012-05-31, 10:51

I just realized it as well, and I have no idea if it is a true confirmation, or Ryukishi throwing another red herring troll

battle22 · 2012-05-31, 12:42

Heh anathor evidence for my Lion female theory. Great news indeed

AuraTwilight · 2012-05-31, 15:26

Well, he could just be included in every group. Is Lion also in a group of pictures of all the male characters?

Kealym · 2012-05-31, 18:16

Are Zepar and Furfur anywhere in sight?

2012-05-29, 08:09	Link #29001
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Just to add some "oil to the fire", Ryukishi explained during Epitanime that Bernkastel serves as the direct link between Higurashi and Umineko (he did NOT refer it as a cameo, to which are things such like RGD Philiph Butler <=> Ushiromiya Battler, and Higurashi as a novel in Umineko). I can testify he basically confirmed the whole "drifting frederica turning into umi bern". __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-05-30, 02:23	Link #29006
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Symbolically, both characters represent the "final plot twists" that tie together everything. Hanyuu is the one supernatural thing in Higurashi that allows the plot to happen, and in Umineko, Featherine symbolizes the existence if Ikuko Hachijou, who's revelation explains like a good 70% of the remaining mysteries of Umineko easily. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-05-30, 12:06	Link #29008
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Both, really. The existence of Ikuko, and thus the existence of the amnesiac Toya, pretty much solves all of 1998 and huge chunks of 1986. AND, it was her that explained that all the arcs are written stories, just like Hanyuu explained that it was a timeloop. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-05-31, 05:28	Link #29010
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	That's why it is explicitely stated it is Ikuko involvement that solves the setup for Umineko. Tohya's amnesia actually explains Battler's full progress from Ep1 to 5, which explains the various "cannot compute" scenes for him, and the reason why he literally switch side once he realize what's up with meta beato. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-05-31, 06:32	Link #29012
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	You can say that Meta Battler is basically "Battler's Identity" lurking in Tohya's mind, who is basically struggling to figure what happened, as "Ushiromiya Battler" memories literally surge in him. As for Meta Beato, the whole concept is that she was hell bent trying to make Meta Battler remembering what happened (otherwise, the whole tragedy would be awfully moot). It is basically yet again a huge reference to the Divine Comedy, and Meta Battler only realizes this mess by the end of ep5. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-05-29, 23:33	Link #29003
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	I never really understood the point of that. Why did Ryu07 go out of his way to make Featherine a reference to Hanyuu? What does that do for the story?

2012-05-30, 01:45	Link #29005
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	It seems like most of the other fanservice serves some kind of point in the story, though. I can't really think of one for Featherine resembling Hanyuu.

2012-05-30, 09:38	Link #29007
GuestSpeaker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Do you mean her existence solved the riddles? Or the info she dished out?

2012-05-31, 05:25	Link #29009
GuestSpeaker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Of course, amnesia solves all mysteries. Didn't you know?

2012-05-31, 08:41	Link #29013
GuestSpeaker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Oh that, well yes that theory works at the meta level and seems to be correct. Though it did always get messy when you try and consider what secret he was protecting and how he could forgive her so quickly.

2012-05-31, 08:49	Link #29014
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	It isn't like Battler "forgave her" that quickly. It is more like he literally realized that Beatrice hardly should be the object of his hatred, as it doesn't make sense in the beginning. Hell, Ep1-4 was weird in that context: Meta Battler kept being aggressive towards Beato, yet claims she isn't the culprit. That stance is basically an oxymoron right from the start, since there is no way for Beatrice to be the culprit if the latter is indeed human. Past his hatred being quenched, Meta Battler finally realizes that Meta Beatro tried exactly what Yasu did to "Human Battler", as in: stirring Battler with mysteries so he can finally remember what they shared before. This is the very reason why we have a scene between Piece Beato (Yasu) and Meta Beato discussing when Yasu just finally gave up in Ep4, which lead the whole issue in the Meta level, instead of the gameboard level. To put it simply, Meta Battler realized way too late the various hints and the whole play Meta Beato has set to him for the very purpose of making him realize that "no, there isn't any Beatrice, but also, there isn't any actual occult murders, but a ploy behind it". __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-05-31, 10:41	Link #29015
moichispa Endless witch Join Date: Mar 2007 Age: 34	It seems there is a place on 07expansion party with twitter profile pictures of almost all females of their works. Lion also appears. What do you think everybody? __________________

2012-05-31, 10:48	Link #29016
TwilightsCall Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 33	Finally, there is some solid evidence to back up my stubborn disbelief in Lion's malehood!

2012-05-31, 10:51	Link #29017
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	I just realized it as well, and I have no idea if it is a true confirmation, or Ryukishi throwing another red herring troll __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-05-31, 12:42	Link #29018
battle22 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Rokkenjima Age: 27	Heh anathor evidence for my Lion female theory. Great news indeed

2012-05-31, 15:26	Link #29019
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Well, he could just be included in every group. Is Lion also in a group of pictures of all the male characters? __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-05-31, 18:16	Link #29020
Kealym Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	Are Zepar and Furfur anywhere in sight?