2012-07-13, 18:19 | Link #29621 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Jokes apart, when you are a person like Ange who can see and talk to a little girl that is supposed to have died a ten years before, and who can see and talk to witch of miracles, and who can see and talk to seven demons and an anthropomorphization of a lion plush while even playing "shiratori" with them... how could you have the complete certainty that every other person around you that you consider "real" actually is? Quote:
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2012-07-13, 19:04 | Link #29622 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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With that said, EP8 does show Ange's journey, growing up not sure whether her own immediate family were murderers or if the one who took her in killed everyone. What you did say could apply though: Ange's belief and trust in her brother was probably stronger than her belief in Rudolf family culprit theory.
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2012-07-13, 19:33 | Link #29623 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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2012-07-13, 19:43 | Link #29624 | |
The True Culprit
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It was an amazingly well-written moment, all things considered.
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2012-07-13, 19:55 | Link #29625 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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No... that somehow doesn't sound right for me. Even in the the meta world Lambda and Bern are "concepts". They are on a higher plane. Attacking Bern violently seems to be something else than just rejecting her. I mean the fact that she feels "hurt" by the attack seems more like her existence itself would be damaged and not just have less influence over Ange's thoughts. OR it means that the purpose of her existence was destroyed. If Ange leads a good life, then she has NO NEED for miracles/good fortunes etc.. When she becomes Yukari, her life becomes better and she "moves on". That makes Berns existence unnecessary which leads to her feeling hurt by Battler's "attacks"... well just my take on it.
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2012-07-14, 02:06 | Link #29628 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Well logically, he shouldn't have been able to win, right? I think Ryu was expressing acknowledgement that he isn't the best writer ever, but Battler gets to shine because it's HIS story, damnit. I wanna say it's, as well as the Bern punching, a tounge in cheek Deus Ex Machina, because "c'mon, you can't let Bern get off scott free. C'MON. C'MOOOOOON." Something like that. ...though personally, I'd have preferred living, unexploded Ushiromiya's over a temporarily ass-handed Bernkastel. Ohhhh well. Quote:
No, you were explaining it very well there, and I happen to agree with that view. Gah, I always entertained the idea of Ange teaming up with Maria's dad to find THE TRUTH™. Awkward tension would have been through the roof. |
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2012-07-14, 07:51 | Link #29630 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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2012-07-15, 06:08 | Link #29631 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I was wondering, in quite a few episodes different characters pointed out that tea/food is more enjoyable if you know about it/can describe or discuss it in detail. This seemed mildly important to Ryu, do you think it could be a hint to the fact we would get answers by reading mystery novels/discussing them with each-other/the way that Yasu and then Battler enjoyed murder mysteries by talking them through with the experienced Kumasawa/Shannon? It just recurred so often....
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2012-07-15, 06:19 | Link #29633 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Sorry for triple post, but I realised it is fine for anyone in the dining room to knock on the door, even though this doesn't really make sense. Furthermore the letter needs only never to have been on the floor in the hallway for the story to check out.
I also realised it is entirely possibly for Shannon and Kanon to have sat in the dining room and stayed with the family, the tend to do most things together actually. |
2012-07-15, 06:43 | Link #29634 |
Endless Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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This part of Episode 5 still confuses me.
I hate to think there's a stupid word game in play here, but is it possible that something else other than a typical "knock" is meant by a "knocking sound"? EDIT: I'm not sure it was possible for one of the people in the dining room to knock on the door. Look at this passage from Episode 5 when the group hears the knock. Spoiler for Episode 5:
EDIT 2: There's red about this too in Episode 5. Let it be known that in addition to Krauss, Natsuhi, and Genji, none of those in the dining hall knocked on that door. Shortly after this, Dlanor says "In short, this means it was impossible for any character within the mansion to be the source of the knocking SOUND. ......And 'any character' refers even to unobserved people that no one has noticed." Last edited by Thunder Book; 2012-07-15 at 07:33. |
2012-07-15, 08:06 | Link #29635 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I don't think that anyone lied about the knock - it just never happened. Nobody ever tells anyone about the knock, so there's no proof anyone even thinks it happened. It's a completely fabricated fantasy scene, one of many examples of Lambda playing dirty.
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2012-07-15, 09:18 | Link #29636 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: United Kingdom.
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Of course! It was the door that made the knocking sound, not the person! Just like how the drum makes the sound and not the percussionist!
*Ahem* I might view the scene again to see if I can come up with something crazy... err original. What was the chapter called?
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2012-07-15, 09:55 | Link #29637 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Its more obvious that the knock didn't occure at 24:00, but earlier.
Somebody (in other words, it has to be someone who is in the guest house @ 24:00) changed the time in Natsuhis room after he placed the tarrot card (or four cards, since I don't believe in Shakanontrice) and in the main hall, so the clock in the main hall indicated too early that it is midnight. It was never stated in red that the time when the knock occured really was at 24:00, right? And even Will told us the solution in the beginning of the 7th novel. |
2012-07-15, 10:28 | Link #29638 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Four cards, huh? You realise that the guy on the phone already implied that summer wasn't the right answer before they asked, right? Why take that risk if it could have been summer for all they knew? Not to mention that if Natsuhi had happened to find any of the other cards, the illusion would be ruined.
Also, I'm pretty sure there were no hints at any point that the clock was tampered with, and why try to explain how the knock could have happened when, outside of a scene that the detective never witnessed or heard about, it was never mentioned? |
2012-07-15, 12:06 | Link #29640 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Spoiler for Episode 5:
Yeah, and Battler saw Kinzo being a creeper in the bushes earlier. Quote:
Furthermore, despite what the characters themselves say, the degree to which the human side has to account for things varies pretty wildly from game to game. Hell, you could say that the ENTIRE "Court of Illusions" segment should never have reached it's anti-Natsuhi verdict because Erika NEVER accounted for the letter, which was obviously something that COULD be discussed with Truths, because they did so. Quote:
The argument about the letter is in the chapter titled "Reasoning and Inspection". Quote:
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