(L+CR) Lord El Melloi II Case Files - Anime Discussion

[GDB]

Originally Posted by XFire

That's not the entire city. Fuyuki is larger than that.

That's literally the only map of Fuyuki we've ever gotten, and as far as we know is the entirety of the city. It is on fire. Please explain yourself.

And you're the one who started this particular discussion, I just pointed out FGO connected to all the other verses and you decided to start a fight.

I was just responding to someone else who subtly made a comment towards FGO. You're the one who started dropping F-bombs and suggesting that picture books were needed so people could understand it. Maybe stop being so damned condescending at the slightest hint of someone not agreeing/understanding what you're trying to convey?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by GDB

That's literally the only map of Fuyuki we've ever gotten, and as far as we know is the entirety of the city. It is on fire. Please explain yourself.

I was just responding to someone else who subtly made a comment towards FGO. You're the one who started dropping F-bombs and suggesting that picture books were needed so people could understand it. Maybe stop being so damned condescending at the slightest hint of someone not agreeing/understanding what you're trying to convey?

Singularity F is based on the Fuyuki Fire. The one that explicitly doesn't cover the entire city and didn't reach the Tohsaka residence.

You're the one who came at me calling my statement "asinine" and insisting that explaining a basic mechanic of the universe the show takes place in didn't contribute to the discussion....that was about timelines and how they connect.

And accusing me of condescension when you kept ending your posts with accusations of headcanon and insistence that I shut up and drop the discussion every time i pointed out somewhere you were wrong is some nice hypocrisy on your part.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by XFire

Singularity F is based on the Fuyuki Fire. The one that explicitly doesn't cover the entire city and didn't reach the Tohsaka residence.

I literally linked an image from the game itself showing the entire city on fire. Yes, the one in Fate did not cover the entire city, but the one in FGO does.

You're the one who came at me calling my statement "asinine" and insisting that explaining a basic mechanic of the universe the show takes place in didn't contribute to the discussion....that was about timelines and how they connect.

And accusing me of condescension when you kept ending your posts with accusations of headcanon and insistence that I shut up and drop the discussion every time i pointed out somewhere you were wrong is some nice hypocrisy on your part.

The way you began explaining things was asinine. You literally just said it yeeted itself out of the multiverse, so it's connected to everything. You kept making claims without backing them up, and then seemingly became offended when I pointed out how your unsubstantiated claims don't work without sourcing/proof.

And considering how you continue to insist that an entire city being on fire isn't a city being on fire, it's easy to see how one doesn't want to just take your word for things.

As far as "headcanon" goes, you clearly aren't reading. I'm stating that if the entire premise of your argument is that FGO circumvents all history, but no one remembers it and everything resets to as if FGO's events don't happen... then they don't matter. In fact, the idea that everything reset implies that deaths from singularities might not matter anymore, as there's already hints that some part 1 deaths might come back in part 2.

Either way, I've stated my point, you've stated yours, and we're going in circles now. I'm dropping this, but if you feel the need to get the last word in, go for it.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by kagato3

FGO split from the Fate timeline farther back than Apocrypha did. In FGO's timeline there was only one HGW and it happened in 2004 and Olga's father was the winner. He then used the wish for money to build Chaldea as well as talking Lev out of commenting suicide.


Waver and Reines end up in Chaldea as Pseudo Servants because of the throne of heroes as it exists out side of time.

Did it? I thought Zero HGW also occured in FGO timeline (not talking about the singularity in the event. The actual Fate/Zero...was it specified anywhere whether it occured prior to FGO events?)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by GDB

I literally linked an image from the game itself showing the entire city on fire. Yes, the one in Fate did not cover the entire city, but the one in FGO does.

You linked an image of an area on fire and insisted it was the entire city for....reasons. Despite it explicitly being the Fuyuki fire from FSN, which did not cover the whole city.

Originally Posted by GDB

The way you began explaining things was asinine. You literally just said it yeeted itself out of the multiverse, so it's connected to everything. You kept making claims without backing them up, and then seemingly became offended when I pointed out how your unsubstantiated claims don't work without sourcing/proof.

Those "unsubstantiated claims" have been basic knowledge among the greater fanbase of Fate for the better part of FOUR. YEARS. I don't have to substantiate the fact that King Arthur is a girl or that Excalibur shoots a giant laser beam. Why would I have substantiate the fact that Chaldea deals the Fate Multiverse?

I was flippantly stating the premise of the mobile game whose fanbase consists of 95% of the greater Fate fanbase, and you tried to "acktshually" me with a fistful of half-baked knowledge and hearsay. So i gave you the actual hard information and you got pissy because it made you look like an idiot.

Originally Posted by GDB

And considering how you continue to insist that an entire city being on fire isn't a city being on fire, it's easy to see how one doesn't want to just take your word for things.

Speaking of headcanon....

Have you ever seen an actual city? Because they tend to be quite a bit larger than that. The not to mention it obviously keeps going off-screen

Originally Posted by GDB

As far as "headcanon" goes, you clearly aren't reading. I'm stating that if the entire premise of your argument is that FGO circumvents all history, but no one remembers it and everything resets to as if FGO's events don't happen... then they don't matter. In fact, the idea that everything reset implies that deaths from singularities might not matter anymore, as there's already hints that some part 1 deaths might come back in part 2.

You're the one who wasn't reading. The entire discussion was about Olga Marie and whether the differing timeline would spare her from her fate in FGO. I was pointing out that even in a non-Chaldea world, she's still doomed because that's what happens if you die in a Singularity.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by XFire

You linked an image of an area on fire and insisted it was the entire city for....reasons. Despite it explicitly being the Fuyuki fire from FSN, which did not cover the whole city.

Just compare it to the map of Fuyuki itself. You see the port in the north at the top of the river. You see the bridge about half way down said river. You can see the church on the mid right sort of tucked away in the darkness that was once a forest/woods. North of that you see the half of the city where the station is. You can see the temple all the way to the left. You can see the school in flames below that.

It's the same thing.

You're the one who wasn't reading. The entire discussion was about Olga Marie and whether the differing timeline would spare her from her fate in FGO. I was pointing out that even in a non-Chaldea world, she's still doomed because that's what happens if you die in a Singularity.

So the thing you were pointing out is the thing you didn't even say until your 4th post on the subject?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Did it? I thought Zero HGW also occured in FGO timeline (not talking about the singularity in the event. The actual Fate/Zero...was it specified anywhere whether it occured prior to FGO events?)

It did not. The one where Olga Marie's dad won is the only Grail War in that timeline, if I recall.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by GDB

Just compare it to the map of Fuyuki itself. You see the port in the north at the top of the river. You see the bridge about half way down said river. You can see the church on the mid right sort of tucked away in the darkness that was once a forest/woods. North of that you see the half of the city where the station is. You can see the temple all the way to the left. You can see the school in flames below that.

It's the same thing.

Weren't you done?

And didn't you just finish saying this was the only map we had and that you were going to assume it was the whole city because reasons?

And looking at any other map I can find, the fire barely covers a third of the city. It's entirely concentrated in the center.

Originally Posted by GDB

So the thing you were pointing out is the thing you didn't even say until your 4th post on the subject?

The discussion was whether she would be spared. Someone said she would be because FGO wasn't connected to Case Files. I pointed out that the events of FGO were connected to everything because of how the multiverse works.

The obvious correlation is that she wouldn't be spared, because again the fact that if you die in a Singularity you die for real has been common knowledge for four years now.

And my 4th post? I only made 2 on that topic. My discussion with you about FGO had nothing to do with the original one. You said that FGO had no effect on the other franchises, and then I had to explain basically the entire basis of the Nasuverse before you would accept the basic premise of FGO.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

The discussion was whether she would be spared. Someone said she would be because FGO wasn't connected to Case Files. I pointed out that the events of FGO were connected to everything because of how the multiverse works.

The obvious correlation is that she wouldn't be spared, because again the fact that if you die in a Singularity you die for real has been common knowledge for four years now.

And my 4th post? I only made 2 on that topic. My discussion with you about FGO had nothing to do with the original one. You said that FGO had no effect on the other franchises, and then I had to explain basically the entire basis of the Nasuverse before you would accept the basic premise of FGO.

No people were talking about the fact that FGO was a different timeline, which it is. And when the money grubbing train-wreck burns out in a year or two all the "common knowledge" from it will be ignored and "special ruled" away just like all the other hundreds of absolute rules that stopped being absolute as soon as the inmate who is running the asylum got distracted by another shiny object.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

No people were talking about the fact that FGO was a different timeline, which it is. And when the money grubbing train-wreck burns out in a year or two all the "common knowledge" from it will be ignored and "special ruled" away just like all the other hundreds of absolute rules that stopped being absolute as soon as the inmate who is running the asylum got distracted by another shiny object.

Eesh, someone's got a chip on their shoulder.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by GDB

It did not. The one where Olga Marie's dad won is the only Grail War in that timeline, if I recall.

I see. Then the actual Waver.....did he become a Lord if FZ never occured? The Servant Waver doesn't seem to correspond with that

Originally Posted by Magewolf

No people were talking about the fact that FGO was a different timeline, which it is. And when the money grubbing train-wreck burns out in a year or two all the "common knowledge" from it will be ignored and "special ruled" away just like all the other hundreds of absolute rules that stopped being absolute as soon as the inmate who is running the asylum got distracted by another shiny object.

TBH I think you should just accept that Mushroom's plotlines are now dictated by whatever he wants it to be at this point. It's been like that ever since Extra

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I see. Then the actual Waver.....did he become a Lord if FZ never occured? The Servant Waver doesn't seem to correspond with that

Considering that the Throne stands separate from all the nonsense and weird timelines, that Waver "Servant" could have been from any bloody one of them. So I don't think we can do better than to guess from which does he come. From whichever it is, it's in one of Fate lines and in which the HGW ran long enough for Zero or a Zero like HGW to happen.

Originally Posted by Magewolf

No people were talking about the fact that FGO was a different timeline, which it is. And when the money grubbing train-wreck burns out in a year or two all the "common knowledge" from it will be ignored and "special ruled" away just like all the other hundreds of absolute rules that stopped being absolute as soon as the inmate who is running the asylum got distracted by another shiny object.

Originally Posted by XFire

Eesh, someone's got a chip on their shoulder.

Eh. He might have a chip on his shoulder, but he probably isn't wrong. If there is a series that needs Olga in this timeline after her supposed death in the Singularity, she bloody well will survive somehow, especially since most surface level fans probably won't care about an kinda obscure rule that if someone dies during a Singularity it dies approximately at that same time in all other lines, if I understood you?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I see. Then the actual Waver.....did he become a Lord if FZ never occured? The Servant Waver doesn't seem to correspond with that

Servant Waver is one who participated in the 4th War, so he's not from the FGO timeline itself. The FGO timeline's Waver likely did still become a Lord, since he became one in Apocrypha as well and that didn't have FZ's war either.

[Renchan]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I see. Then the actual Waver.....did he become a Lord if FZ never occured?

He's a lord in Apocrypha (Prisma illya too, but let's ignore that one ) where FZ never happened. He did however participated in a mini HGW with Keyneth. I guess, he'll became a lord any timelines where Waver accidentally caused Keyneth's death.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Renchan

He's a lord in Apocrypha (Prisma illya too, but let's ignore that one ) where FZ never happened. He did however participated in a mini HGW with Keyneth. I guess, he'll became a lord any timelines where Waver accidentally caused Keyneth's death.

So there will always be a timeline where Waver succeeds Kayneth, HGW or not? It's the particular circumstance that's different.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by orion

So there will always be a timeline where Waver succeeds Kayneth, HGW or not? It's the particular circumstance that's different.

If you wonder how that can even be:
Rick and Morty does a surprisingly good job at explaining/showing the concept of infinite possibilities/realities.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Anyway, a Dead Apostle who can threaten Servants in Fate timeline where Vampires are greatly weakened no less....must be someone special or Hephaestion isn't that strong

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Anyway, a Dead Apostle who can threaten Servants in Fate timeline where Vampires are greatly weakened no less....must be someone special or Hephaestion isn't that strong

The Forest of Einnashe is actually one of the 27 Death Apostle Ancestors (Nr 7 to be precise) mentioned in Tsukihime. So yeah special .
The upper 15 - 10 are way stronger than most servants (or dark Sakura for that matter)

[AnimeFan188]

Interesting that Hephaestion went after Gray instead of targeting Waver while he's
vulnerable.

Also interesting that she didn't use her mystic eyes, or her chariot while fighting Gray.

Why is Hephaestion so interested in toying with Gray now?

On another note, considering that the train was halfway to the underworld when Melvin
caught up with it, that must've been some helicopter he was riding! I wonder if it
could've flown him all the way to the underworld if Waver & friends had gotten there
already?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

Interesting that Hephaestion went after Gray instead of targeting Waver while he's
vulnerable.

Also interesting that she didn't use her mystic eyes, or her chariot while fighting Gray.

Why is Hephaestion so interested in toying with Gray now?

On another note, considering that the train was halfway to the underworld when Melvin
caught up with it, that must've been some helicopter he was riding! I wonder if it
could've flown him all the way to the underworld if Waver & friends had gotten there
already?

I think he could only follow the train because he had an invitation. (You know the black letter, he money-slapped Reines with)

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

The Forest of Einnashe is actually one of the 27 Death Apostle Ancestors (Nr 7 to be precise) mentioned in Tsukihime. So yeah special .
The upper 15 - 10 are way stronger than most servants (or dark Sakura for that matter)

The 27 DAA are not ranked in power but in threat against humanity.