Is Kakashi a Hokage lvl ninja?

[Whitemoon648]

Well he is strong. But he would probably never win against any of the sannins. Orichimaru is immortal( i know, i am exaggerating a bit), Tsunade is always healing herself and if she hit you once you are done for.

Well as Jiraya, he has peeping skills .


So no He isnt at their level yet, but he is preaty strong.

Also we dont even know if he is the strongest or not. For all we know, Neji's uncle could be even stronger than him.


Yes, Kakashi can do alot. Sharingan, spells and .... but he doesnt have enough chakra. Dodge 3 of his attacks and he is done for . But yeah those 3 to 4 attacks are deadly.

[Last of the Uchihas]

Originally Posted by james3wk

The real question is: Do you really think that a Shinobi that has been active for 45 or more years would have such an obvious weakness as being slow? That is just foolish. If she were a genin, what you say may be true, but she is a once elite jounin, now hokage. She would never have such an obvious weakness. So, there are only two options: 1) she has developed a fight style that can account for faster opponents; 2) she is actually fast.

The fact is that Kabuto was able to keep up with her, and he didn't have the sharingan, nor was he using the blood phobia on her.

1) If Tsunade had simple advanced strength like Gai, you would be correct. But, her strength is superhuman and is more of an area of effect type power than a simple strength issue. Specifically, one of the two times we have seen her use her strength (against Naruto when she was extremely drunk and etrememly out-of-shape Chapter 159) she literally splits the ground for about 5 meters long and 2 meters deep. With her finger. Speed does not matter if one missed punch can literally destroy the area around where your opponent is standing. She accounts for her opponents speed by having almost pure strength needed to bridge that gap by destroying the area in which a person can move around (i.e. it is hard to move around at gret speeds when you do not have a solid surface to move around on).

she did the same thing to Oro and Kabuto and she still failed miserably. She shaped the whole landscape, but that didn't allow her to hit either one of them.

2) It is possible that Tsunade is actually fast. If you will recall, after she became serious in the Sannin battle, she was moving around at great speed, effectively moving from place to place in the space of a manga panal. This could mean she is simply moving at an average Shinobi speed, or she could be moving at a great speed, in is unclear, what is clear is that she was moving atleast as fast as an average Shinobi.

again, we saw what Kabuto did to her.

There are various other theroies as well, she could be able to move at great speeds when she utilizes the Regeneration Technique, or it is possible that she knows the 8 Gates Technique which would greatly increase her speed. Neither theory, though, has any real backing beyond pure speculation.

Don't mention the 8 gates when it has not even being implied. We saw her in action and she wasn't fast.

In the end, claiming that speed would allow Kakashi to defeat Tsunade is completely falacious and a little silly. His MS technique(s) matter more than any speed advantage he has, and even then it is hard to say who could win because we still know little of her actual jutsus (which she is bound to have a few, anyone claiming she just has medical jutsus is simply stupid).

FYI, she is a mediacl ninja. She only have healing jutsus, brute strength and summoning. Nothing else.

She can almost instantly regenerate any limb on her body, as long as her brain is functioning. Kakashi (or any opponent) could aim for her head, but again, you are arguing as if she is only a genin level opponent. She is a Hokage, so of course she is strong. If you know that your only real weak point (since she can regenerate the rest) is your head, then of course that would be the main area that you would protect. You are needlessly underestimating her (quite literally putting her down) for absolutely no reason.

Kakashi can hack her into pieces. I don't see Tsunade's healing abilities surpassing Oro in terms of regenerating limbs.

As for placing a genjutsu on her summon, I hate to break it to you but Slugs can't see they have light stalks that allow them to "feel" light and darkness. They do not have the basic requirements for any genjutsu we have seen thus far. In many respects they are the ultimate counter to any and all Uchiha attacks.

please! If Manda fell for it, The slug is doomed.

And the hat. I almost forgot the hat. Everyone knows that the Hokage hat allows the user to gain hidden strength. How else would a 68 year old Sarutobi be able to fight against a "playful" Orochimaru for as long as Sarutobi did fight. The Hat is all powerful .

as you said, Oro was playing, as stated in the manga and databook. Not to mention that Oro would have slit Saru's neck in an instant if he wanted to, as he had a kunai by his throat

Whatever the case maybe, and I am repeating myself again, Kakashi is almost a what could be descibed as Hokage-level Shinobi (I say Hokage to differentiate between the other seemingly always weaker Kages from other countries). He is a little below the Hokage-level, and with a few more years training (maybe gaining the EMS ) he will be at a level beyond the Sannin, but currently he seems to be a little behind.

Tsunade is the one behind, not Kakashi.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

The fact is that Kabuto was able to keep up with her, and he didn't have the sharingan, nor was he using the blood phobia on her.




she did the same thing to Oro and Kabuto and she still failed miserably. She shaped the whole landscape, but that didn't allow her to hit either one of them.




again, we saw what Kabuto did to her.



Don't mention the 8 gates when it has not even being implied. We saw her in action and she wasn't fast.



FYI, she is a mediacl ninja. She only have healing jutsus, brute strength and summoning. Nothing else.



Kakashi can hack her into pieces. I don't see Tsunade's healing abilities surpassing Oro in terms of regenerating limbs.




please! If Manda fell for it, The slug is doomed.



as you said, Oro was playing, as stated in the manga and databook. Not to mention that Oro would have slit Saru's neck in an instant if he wanted to, as he had a kunai by his throat



Tsunade is the one behind, not Kakashi.

1) Tsunade hasn't fought in a long while so it is natural that her abilities would of been less than her full power

2) Kabuto used a soldier pill while he was already on Kakashi's level and Tsunade was out of practice

3) Kabuto is a MEDIC-NIN, if I was a doctor which I am going to be someday I could beat a professional boxer any day just using 1 scalpel, medic-nins are the most dangerous type as they can sever arteries and muscles

4) She didn't change the landscape so she could hit them it was just the result of her attacks missing

5) Tsunade was once again OUT OF PRACTICE!

6) Which world are you on Tsunade can cut all Kakashi's arteries and muscles or disrupt his body's signals, Kakashi can't hack her to pieces

7) By point number 7 Kakashi will be out of chakra too bad

8) HA HA HA In what manga do you think this is a slit to the throat won't kill Saru and if that was the case why did Saru survive until he used the shiki fuujin

9) In her rage she could of ended Jiraiya's life, I mean in all seriousness Sasuke is closer to Hokage than Kakashi want to know why? Here it is:

Sasuke can copy ANY technique Kakashi uses against him except the MS one

Sasuke can simply use shunshin to get out of Kakashi's range because Sasuke is faster than Kakashi and he has Uchiha blood which PWNS sharingan without uchiha blood

Sasuke can use Kirin to end the battle straight away

Sasuke has more uses for chidori and he has more chakra

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

The fact is that Kabuto was able to keep up with her, and he didn't have the sharingan, nor was he using the blood phobia on her.

So your argument that she can not fight Kakashi is based around the fact that she fought a Shinobi of the same level and was holding her own until he used a psychological attack on her to "win" their fight. Do you realise how silly that sounds.

Kabuto, a Shinobi repeatedly said to be equal to Kakashi (there is no point in denying this, any claim you have contrary is simple bias), was fighting against an opponent that had not fought in a life or death struggle for close to 15 years (thereabouts). Are you telling me that you automatically expect a person in, more or less, retirement to be able to move and react the same as when they are active duty. Added to that, if you actually read the chapter without simply skiming it while looking for Uchihas, you would plainly see that not only was she keeping up with him, she had several times dealt a blow that would have eaisly defeated Kakashi (specifically the attack that messes up the nerveous system) because he has no medical training.

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

she did the same thing to Oro and Kabuto and she still failed miserably. She shaped the whole landscape, but that didn't allow her to hit either one of them.

How can you say she did not succed when she delibrately aimed to get them out of the town at the begining of the fight. If you would remember, she controlled the flow of the battle to such an extent that she was able to drive Orochimaru and Kabuto out of the town, so that both parties would be able to fight seriously without worry (in Tsunade's case, without worry of hurting innocent people, in Orochimaru's case, without worry of Jiraiya). So, she literally shaped their battle field, which is what I said she could do.

Added to that, she ended the fight in about three moves when she became serious, and those few moves all hit her target, so in terms of speed etc. she clearly was better, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Her first move literally twisted Orochimaru 180 from his original position...with one blow, her second move was to summon, and her third move almost killed Manda in one blow. All the while she was shaping the environment around her

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

FYI, she is a mediacl ninja. She only have healing jutsus, brute strength and summoning. Nothing else.

Well, I guess Kabuto can only use medical jutsus as well...wait, what is this, Kabuto is known to be able to use genjutsu. No, that can't be, that would imply that medical ninjas can use other jutsus in a fight, and that simply can not be.

Please do not be silly. Please, just stop it. She became a Medical ninja later in her Shinobi career, she never started out as one. In fact, Sarutobi had no respect for medical ninjas back in the day, so he never once taught her anything to do with medical ninjutsu. So, until she became a chuunin if not a jounin, she assuredly survived using various other jutsus. She would have to have been proficient in other jutsus just judging by the fact that Sarutobi taught Jiraiya and Orochimaru so much.

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

please! If Manda fell for it, The slug is doomed.

Let me repeat it again, only this time I will capatilze everything and place it in bold:

SLUGS DO NOT HAVE EYES. THEY CAN NOT SEE TO BE PLACED UNDER ANY GENJUTSU THAT SASUKE OR ITACHI HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO USE. IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE SHARINGAN, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FEAR THE SHARINGAN (something Gai has taught us).

I am sorry I had to do that, but you were being a little to thick headed and stubborn. Manda and Gamabunta could be placed under a genjutsu becuase they have eyes (although Gamabunta, who seems to know some jutsu, might be able to perform a Kai and break free), Tsuya (or whatever the slugs name is) has no eyes so visual based genjutsu would not work (btw, Genjutsus use opening like Sight and Sound, because that is the only way to get the Genjutsu into the brain; Genjutsus are not like regular jutsus that you can just fling out (ala a Fire technique) they are designed to enter a specific sensory organ and from there go into the brain to cause the opponents brain to work in a particular manner). Now, Auditory based genjutsu may work, but Slugs do not hear the same as other creatures do, so it is not certain, additionally we have only ever seen auditory genjutsu performed with tools (bells, and a flute), so I do not know if Sasuke or Kakashi know how to utilize those types of genjutsu (presumably, there are also Sight, Taste, and Touch genjutsu, but those have never once appeared, so we can not say for certain whether they exist or not.)

No Genjutsus that we currently know effect a Giant Slug or nay smaller sluggs.

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchihas

Tsunade is the one behind, not Kakashi.

I give you facts and logical arguments etc. but that would not matter to you. You have already made up your mind, so, whatever.

Kakashi is great, he truly is, he is almost as good as the legendary Sannin, which is saying alot. Soon he will be ahead of them, but just not yet.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Again this thread?

Anyway after carefull consideration...is Kakashi far from an Hokage lvl ninja...so is Itachi if you ask me.

Every Hokage so far have proven to use high lvl ninjutsu's, genjutsu's and keep on fighting for quite some time.

Perhaps Itachi & Kakashi posses an more powerfull technique within their arsenal but they cant fight for long. Those 2 are only good for 1 on 1.

Every Hokage can possibly take out more then 15 jounins...while Itachi and Kakashi cant or barely fight 5 jounins.

Their stamina & chakra pool is way below an average Hokage. And this factor is very important.. (Sandaime was proof..since he was already old)

To me an Hokage should be able to kill of plenty of shinobi and still stand on top to face another great adversary like elite jounins (Itachi, Kakashi) or kage lvl jounins (Sannin)...

It was nice to see..Sarutobi defeating to zombies (who were probably at elite jounin lvl skill) and then face the beast Orochimaru himself...only his stamina and chakra pool worked against him.
I wonder what happend if those 2 Hokage's were fighting with their own mind and spirit..not being those zombies.

I'm pretty sure they can both take on a lot of jounin shinobis. It may appear that they have low mana pool but that may be due to the fact that they both use high lvl jutsus. Itachi can just use a simple genjutsu and kill a lot of his opponents since his simple genjutsus are hard to dispel.

[malvado]

Kakashi isnt a hokage lvl ninja but he is pretty strong. Any of the sannins or hokages would have trouble dealing with him. This guy immobilized Deidara, who is also a kage lvl ninja. He didnt kill him, but gave him a lotta trouble. The same would happen if he fought Tsunade. But remember once again, Kakashi has never been slected as hokage. His name never been brought up except by Tsunade who probably has seen how much he has developed in the past 2,5 years. But frankly speakin, Kakashi would be a terrible hokage. The village would be doomed with Kakashi as Hokage. Btw Land of the Uchihas, we havent seen half of what Tsunade is capable of. Im pretty sure she wasnt chosen as hokage because of her superhuman strength. She also knows elemental techniques, has probably got a sennin mode or whatever with her boobs, and at least 300 jutsus he has learned from the third.

[HiroInazuma]

Spoiler for Jiraiya and Oro:

Actually Hydra Orochimaru or Toad mode will dispatch Kakashi pretty easily, in fact during that Saanin fight all of the Saanin had their drawbacks:

Jiraiya was drugged
Oro couldn't use his arms
Tsunade had been out of practice for years in fact Oro was surprised she was fighting as well as she was even after not fighting for a LONG time.

[malvado]

Originally Posted by HiroInazuma

Spoiler for Jiraiya and Oro:

Actually Hydra Orochimaru or Toad mode will dispatch Kakashi pretty easily, in fact during that Saanin fight all of the Saanin had their drawbacks:

Jiraiya was drugged
Oro couldn't use his arms
Tsunade had been out of practice for years in fact Oro was surprised she was fighting as well as she was even after not fighting for a LONG time.

Nobody fought at 100%. Jiraiya didnt use his sennin mode, Im pretty sure Tsunade has also got a ultimate jutsu, Oro didnt have his arms and couldnt use like at least 200 of his jutsus. I agree with the rest. Oro would kill Kakashi isntantly. Jiraiyas movement detention barrier, Hell swamp, sennin mode are kinda undefeatable unless ur name is pein. The only person who would have trouble with Kakashi is tsunade.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by malvado

Nobody fought at 100%. Jiraiya didnt use his sennin mode, Im pretty sure Tsunade has also got a ultimate jutsu, Oro didnt have his arms and couldnt use like at least 200 of his jutsus. I agree with the rest. Oro would kill Kakashi isntantly. Jiraiyas movement detention barrier, Hell swamp, sennin mode are kinda undefeatable unless ur name is pein. The only person who would have trouble with Kakashi is tsunade.

Actually Tsunade might not have trouble as I said she wasn't at 100% when she fought Kabuto who was at Kakashi's level

[Aimingan12]

Kakashi can become hokage if he accepts the offer.He isnt weak and he is very skilled and also has mastered his sharingan and he can take down many ninjas and I dont think hokages can take down 15 jonin at one time.

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Aimingan12

Kakashi can become hokage if he accepts the offer.He isnt weak and he is very skilled and also has mastered his sharingan and he can take down many ninjas and I dont think hokages can take down 15 jonin at one time.

You don't think Hokage's can take down 15 jounin at the same time the 4th could destroy a whole army in a matter of seconds, the Hokage fought Orochimaru, Shodaime and Nidaime at the same time who are stronger than 15 jounins

[Aimingan12]

I mean 15 skilled jonin,and the 4th was strong no doubt but I dont recall seeing them take down 15 jounin.

[ThoHell]

Wasn't--at one point-- Kakashi was suggested for the position after the death of the 3rd. Hokage is Konoha's strongest ninja, and it was hinted before that Kakashi was it. I'm sure Kakashi can beat the 5th, but I think Kakashi doesn't want to take part that position.

[SeanQ]

Kakashi can not beat the 5th...because:
1. He can only do well in groups.
2. He sux.
3. One slap from Tsuande or a touch of a fingernail and he's dead.
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[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

I'm pretty sure they can both take on a lot of jounin shinobis. It may appear that they have low mana pool but that may be due to the fact that they both use high lvl jutsus. Itachi can just use a simple genjutsu and kill a lot of his opponents since his simple genjutsus are hard to dispel.

I am not so sure about that. In the manga the power of the Shodai Hokage has been explained...and there is a good guess that these Hokages were all very powerfull. Perhaps...just perhaps the Shodai Hokage was the strongest amoung the Hokages.

Anyway...Kakashi proved to have alot of difficulty to face a jounin (Zabuza). I think any of the Sannin/Hokages could win fairly easy against him. And still have enough breath to face Gai, Asuma, Kakashi and Kurenai at the same time (as an example) or vice versa.

Itachi is definetly skilled but his techniques probably drain alot of chakra and stamina. Really...his 30% clone wasnt able to do that much..right? And he ran quickly out of chakra. As you mentioned he can use simple genjutsu...but that will have no effect on jounins. Naruto had to dispell Itachi's genjutsu (which wasnt a simple type) and Naruto is still not very good at dispelling genjutsu. Jounins would have no difficulty or atleast alot less than Naruto had.

Jounins afterall are highly skilled in genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu.

[ThoHell]

Originally Posted by SeanQ

Kakashi can not beat the 5th...because:
1. He can only do well in groups.
2. He sux.
3. One slap from Tsuande or a touch of a fingernail and he's dead.

No matter how strong ANYONE is, if they can't touch you it's pointless. Not down grading the 5th or calling her weak, but if she were to go heads up with Kakashi now or in her prime, she would loose. I'm no Kakashi fan, but I think it's plan obvious. Kakashi is smarter, faster, and naturally stronger ( I mean naturally as in not using chakra burst to boost impact power, has incredible techniques, AND THAT EYE HE ALWAYS HAS COVERED UP!

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I am not so sure about that. In the manga the power of the Shodai Hokage has been explained...and there is a good guess that these Hokages were all very powerfull. Perhaps...just perhaps the Shodai Hokage was the strongest amoung the Hokages.

Anyway...Kakashi proved to have alot of difficulty to face a jounin (Zabuza). I think any of the Sannin/Hokages could win fairly easy against him. And still have enough breath to face Gai, Asuma, Kakashi and Kurenai at the same time (as an example) or vice versa.

Itachi is definetly skilled but his techniques probably drain alot of chakra and stamina. Really...his 30% clone wasnt able to do that much..right? And he ran quickly out of chakra. As you mentioned he can use simple genjutsu...but that will have no effect on jounins. Naruto had to dispell Itachi's genjutsu (which wasnt a simple type) and Naruto is still not very good at dispelling genjutsu. Jounins would have no difficulty or atleast alot less than Naruto had.

Jounins afterall are highly skilled in genjutsu, ninjutsu and taijutsu.

everyone at one point or another had difficulty against someone they should be able to own, but they don't because it's all for the sake of the show. The 5th got it pretty damn bad back in that fight with Orochi's sidekick. Kakashi did well against several Akatsuki (each one of high class, as killed and won against several of the strongest ninja around)-- could of easily owned the one who captured Gaara (Gaara over the 5th and NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE!), and that guy with 4 hearts that was owning a team easily by himself (Kakashi didn't beat him but fought against him better than everyone else before Naruto came).

[HiroInazuma]

Originally Posted by Aimingan12

I mean 15 skilled jonin,and the 4th was strong no doubt but I dont recall seeing them take down 15 jounin.

Spoiler for manga:

People were given the order to retreat if they see him and due to Hiraishin he could take down many nins at the same time, Kakashi hasn't even reached the level of Minato, Kakashi couldn't even touch Tobi due to Tobi's space time jutsu so what could he do to Minato. Also when did Kakashi take down 15 skilled jounin because if you were referring to the invasion of Konoha those guys were just random shinobi and Kakashi and Gai had each others back.

[kriez]

Originally Posted by malvado

.. Deidara, who is also a kage lvl ninja.

i don't tnk deidara qualifies as a kage-level ninja. obviously he's one of the weak ones in akatsuki. though sasori died, i tnk he was stronger too

Originally Posted by Aimingan12

... I dont think hokages can take down 15 jonin at one time.

i beg to differ. you think too lowly of others

Originally Posted by SeanQ

Kakashi can not beat the 5th...because:
1. He can only do well in groups.
2. He sux.
3. One slap from Tsuande or a touch of a fingernail and he's dead.

your comments are so darn personal it ain't fair to kakashi sia..

still, i don't think kakashi is qualified to be hokage (as much as i luv him, i'm so sorry!). he's still far from it. and i hate movie 3, which made him out to be so weak after using that little sharingan! i know it's a lot of water but he has exerted his eye more in many other battles and remain standing..

and of cuz tsunade isn't merely chosen for her brute strength. as much as she hates trouble, loves drinking and gambling, she doesn't shrink from responsibility and has leadership qualities aside from power. her being the first's granddaughter and 3rd's student means a lot. orochimaru is a threat so he's out of question. rmb tt jiraiya was voted to be the 5th too? it was his slacky nature tt he rejected the job offer and suggested tsunade, hence bringing naruto to find her. strategy can overthrow strength in a battle so tho we know thr are still many strong ninjas out thr, we need a clever mind too.

[SeanQ]

Originally Posted by kriez

i don't tnk deidara qualifies as a kage-level ninja. obviously he's one of the weak ones in akatsuki. though sasori died, i tnk he was stronger too


i beg to differ. you think too lowly of others


your comments are so darn personal it ain't fair to kakashi sia..

still, i don't think kakashi is qualified to be hokage (as much as i luv him, i'm so sorry!). he's still far from it. and i hate movie 3, which made him out to be so weak after using that little sharingan! i know it's a lot of water but he has exerted his eye more in many other battles and remain standing..

and of cuz tsunade isn't merely chosen for her brute strength. as much as she hates trouble, loves drinking and gambling, she doesn't shrink from responsibility and has leadership qualities aside from power. her being the first's granddaughter and 3rd's student means a lot. orochimaru is a threat so he's out of question. rmb tt jiraiya was voted to be the 5th too? it was his slacky nature tt he rejected the job offer and suggested tsunade, hence bringing naruto to find her. strategy can overthrow strength in a battle so tho we know thr are still many strong ninjas out thr, we need a clever mind too.

lol no i'm being fair to kakashi...he does sucks...he's just plain incapable of 1 on 1 with anyone...he needs back up from little kids to beat his opp lol...but yeah...and tsunade can easily b**** slap kakashi...just because she's a God when she's angry and nothing can stop her when she's in berserk mode =)
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[tatami]

i am failing to see how tsunade would slap kakashi?