Attack on Titan - Episode 25 (END) Discussion / Poll

[Kinali]

I really don't think there was a way to avoid all those civilian deaths especially when 2 titans are on the loose. Eren might have control of his titan form but emotionally he wasn't in full control. Plus Eren was chasing Annie so I can understand him having a hard time following her since she is fast. So I can't really hate on him because I doubt its not something he did on purpose .

I definitely don't blame Annie. Annie might be cold and will kill anybody but only if its to help her achieve her goal. That includes anybody trying to stop her even if she considers them friends. I'm pretty sure none of those civilians were trying to stop her. She has an assassin type personality. I wouldn't be surprised if she was asked by her dad to kill him. That can assure him that if she can kill him she can kill anybody just to survive or to achieve her goal.

So stop trying to blame these two. Erwin knew that this was going to happen so blame him and guess what? He's ready to take the blame.

[Haigon]

Originally Posted by Kinali

I really don't think there was a way to avoid all those civilian deaths especially when 2 titans are on the loose. Eren might have control of his titan form but emotionally he wasn't in full control. Plus Eren was chasing Annie so I can understand him having a hard time following her since she is fast. So I can't really hate on him because I doubt its not something he did on purpose .

I definitely don't blame Annie. Annie might be cold and will kill anybody but only if its to help her achieve her goal. That includes anybody trying to stop her even if she considers them friends. I'm pretty sure none of those civilians were trying to stop her. She has an assassin type personality. I wouldn't be surprised if she was asked by her dad to kill him. That can assure him that if she can kill him she can kill anybody just to survive or to achieve her goal.

So stop trying to blame these two. Erwin knew that this was going to happen so blame him and guess what? He's ready to take the blame.

Well, in the manga the chase was a short straight run to the walls.

[Kinali]

Originally Posted by Haigon

Well, in the manga the chase was a short straight run to the walls.

Yea but I had a feeling something like this would happen because of the changes from episode 24. Maybe this is their idea of saying that this is what would have happened?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Except AoT isn't supposed to end here. Sure it's not like F/Z where the wait is only 1 season away but the point is "ending" here at this point is rubbish. What did they achieve at this point to even consider AoT is "over." It's pretty much clear at this point that this story is far from over.

What you're saying only holds true if they never intend to follow it up with another season. But the fact is they do it's just not gonna happen any time soon.

I have not seen any evidence that a second season is coming, and it's doubtful there will ever be one.

[n120cky]

Maybe scene in the end of episode doesn't meant to be a revelation, let say it's just way of saying goodbye...

[LeoXiao]

I can't hold out any longer. I'm going to go read the manga.

[richardtengcy]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

I can't hold out any longer. I'm going to go read the manga.

Good luck with getting mind fuck

[Double_Edge]

This episode an ending was hella weak, I don't know why you guys are raving about it. I would rather they give us an anime original ending like Claymore than leave all these loose ends here.

People have been saying that there is no news or renewal for a second season. Uh, wtf? If it was an anime original ending, it would have been HELLA weak (considering that the story would just suddenly end) but at least some of us could say "Well, time to read the manga". But now we have to wait on a second season that may never come to pass.

Most of the season split anime's I have seen (most annoying latest trend in anime, imo) have had definite dates on the next season like Gundam 00, Geass, etc. The fact that this apparently doesn't have one in the works has me worried. Personally, I think they started this show way to early. Before making it, they knew exactly how much material they had to work with and when they would end the series. They really should have delayed until the author was near completion. I'd actually be down for them to make a school comedy series from their military academy days School Rumble and Azumanga style to pass the time until the author finishes. =X The randomness and ratchetness of it would be hilarious in contrast to the serious tone of the series.

[oompa loompa]

Listen.. when we're talking about accelerator vs annie, you're forgetting something sort of improtant. We find out what the accelerator is all about, we have no idea what annie is all about. The fact that she can do that crystal thing is as good proof as any that shes a chekovs gunmen.. I get the feeling, that we're far from seeing the last of annie. Who knows, maybe next time shes around she'll be one of the heroines

[rocket]

Wow! Epic ending. I've been lurking and loving this show all along and the end did not disappoint.

I am going to have to start reading the manga now.

Oh, and I really didn't appreciate the manga spoilers about...

Spoiler:

... the Titans in the walls.

Dunno why the mods didn't clean that up.


I think the anime pacing and ambiguity is much better BTW. When I saw it it was totally WTF?! Is it an attack? Is that the Colossal? Are there Titans *in* the walls?! Eren is just spent, we're helpless!

The possibilities and the uncertainty (and the fact that i'd have to wait) were delicious!

Then we get a spoiler on page three. Lame.

I do look forward to showing this to my wife and not spoiling her!

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by rocket

Wow! Epic ending. I've been lurking and loving this show all along and the end did not disappoint.

I am going to have to start reading the manga now.

Oh, and I really didn't appreciate the manga spoilers about the Titans in the walls. Dunno why the mods didn't clean that up.

I think the anime pacing and ambiguity is much better BTW. When I saw it it was totally WTF?! Is it an attack? Are there Titans *in* the walls?! The possibilities and the uncertainty (and the fact that i'd have to wait) were delicious!

Then we get a spoiler on page three. Lame.

I do look forward to showing this to my wife and not spoiling her!

Because it is not a spoiler. The anime did reveal it except it was badly handled.

@Solace

Oh they do really. There's a previous article stating the producers want more of this and the only reason why there isn't any news of it getting another season is because it's just not possible at this point.

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by rocket

Wow! Epic ending. I've been lurking and loving this show all along and the end did not disappoint.

I am going to have to start reading the manga now.

me too

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Solace

I have not seen any evidence that a second season is coming, and it's doubtful there will ever be one.

Sorry if this comes across as a little hostile, it's totally not intended to be, no sarcasm.

What are you basing that on?

If its the fact that there wasn't a little message at the end saying 'wait for next season!' or the producers/ author giving a little tid-bit, I agree, there has been worryingly little news. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not so abnormal. For example, Shana got a 3rd season without an announcement for it, (correct me if I'm wrong), so did Haruhi. Granted, these two, particularly Haruhi, are massive, it still doesn't necessarily make it doubtful that there won't be another season.

So again, what are the parameters that you're basing this on? Quite frankly, I haven't done any research or kept track of trends when it comes to anime sequels, but there are a few obvious factors that I would think off the top of my head would come into play; Mainly the amount the manga sold, the viewership of the anime, cost of production, and availability of material, followed by critical reception. Finally, there's exogenous factors, such as the state of the industry in Japan, labor, and production costs.

Clearly, the availability of material is an issue, particularly if you consider the combined effect of being able to end a season with the ending of an arc, and the monthly releases. On the other benchmarks, I'm not so sure. My immediate inference would be that the show is very popular, I don't have numbers, but its spawned memes, international debates on the political leanings of SnK, and they even had the finale shown in theatres. There's also the live action SnK movie that's supposedly in production, although the latest I've heard that it's on hold due to differences in the interpretation of the director and producer(s).

Now to the manga; it won the 2011 Kodansha manga award, and according to wiki has sold 20 mil copies as of June 2013. It's also written that the anime has notably increased manga sales. Unless the show is very over-hyped, or its not feasible cost wise, I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to cash in on this.. well, gold mine. Now I know that you haven't said that there isn't definitely going to be one, but at the same time, instead of being 'doubtful' about a second season, I would doubt that a second season won't come along in the next couple of years.

Now, what I want to know is, are these figures largely meaningless? Is it always that a sequel is announced immediately afterwards? How often does this happen, and if it doesn't how often do these shows do get sequels?

[moncikoma]

2nd season is happening, dont worry.. just keep buying their merchandise, and it will come true...

if full metal alchemist can be aired and remake until it end... why SNK cant!? dafuq with that logic..

its a fact the a minimum of 100 million fans want it to be animated, im sure ishiyama want it to be animated so bad... thats why he said he will end his manga around 20 volumes

as long the manga is doing just great, until near the end, im sure the anime will continue because there is no reason not to...

no budget : immposible
no fans : immposible
no material : true, but its just a matter of time

[monir]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

Sorry if this comes across as a little hostile, it's totally not intended to be, no sarcasm.

What are you basing that on?

If its the fact that there wasn't a little message at the end saying 'wait for next season!' or the producers/ author giving a little tid-bit, I agree, there has been worryingly little news. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not so abnormal. For example, Shana got a 3rd season without an announcement for it, (correct me if I'm wrong), so did Haruhi. Granted, these two, particularly Haruhi, are massive, it still doesn't necessarily make it doubtful that there won't be another season.

So again, what are the parameters that you're basing this on? Quite frankly, I haven't done any research or kept track of trends when it comes to anime sequels, but there are a few obvious factors that I would think off the top of my head would come into play; Mainly the amount the manga sold, the viewership of the anime, cost of production, and availability of material, followed by critical reception. Finally, there's exogenous factors, such as the state of the industry in Japan, labor, and production costs.

Clearly, the availability of material is an issue, particularly if you consider the combined effect of being able to end a season with the ending of an arc, and the monthly releases. On the other benchmarks, I'm not so sure. My immediate inference would be that the show is very popular, I don't have numbers, but its spawned memes, international debates on the political leanings of SnK, and they even had the finale shown in theatres. There's also the live action SnK movie that's supposedly in production, although the latest I've heard that it's on hold due to differences in the interpretation of the director and producer(s).

Now to the manga; it won the 2011 Kodansha manga award, and according to wiki has sold 20 mil copies as of June 2013. It's also written that the anime has notably increased manga sales. Unless the show is very over-hyped, or its not feasible cost wise, I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to cash in on this.. well, gold mine. Now I know that you haven't said that there isn't definitely going to be one, but at the same time, instead of being 'doubtful' about a second season, I would doubt that a second season won't come along in the next couple of years.

Now, what I want to know is, are these figures largely meaningless? Is it always that a sequel is announced immediately afterwards? How often does this happen, and if it doesn't how often do these shows do get sequels?

Allow me to respond to that............

Solace is a die hard Claymore-fan. You will understand in a second why that's important... As you probably know, Claymore manga also serializes monthly just like Attack on Titan. Like Claymore, this show has covered a lot of material and fairly close to catching up to the manga counterpart. I am not following the manga, so I'm not sure if there is enough manga material there for a second season right away. If there is not enough material for the manga, how much time will be needed to get a fair amount of material for second season?

Considering this manga serializes monthly, I'm guessing the time needed would be in months if not in years....

Yes, I would like to see a second season right away, but I don't want any anime-original material either to justify a new season. As has been shown time and time again, anime-original material loses its luster very very quickly. Attack on Titan has done well with some of the filler, but it still followed the manga material religiously as far as I could understand. With that observation in mind, it is fair to assume there won't be a second season any time soon if there isn't enough material to support another anime counterpart.

Claymore had that very same dilemma and as a result the anime-fans like Solace were pretty much hung there to dry in anticipation of second season that never materialized. Madhouse handled Claymore anime very badly.

Attack on Titan is following the same exact footsteps. Hence, Solace's comment.

I still think Attack on Titan is a much better story and Production I.G has done masterful job at animating it. I also think the BD/DVD sale would be much better than Claymore. That said, without enough manga material the chances of a second season is slim indeed.

So question is, do we have enough manga material for a second season?

[richardtengcy]

Basically it takes 8 Volumes of SnK to animate season 1 (25 episodes)

The author announces that he will end SnK in Volume 20.

We are currently at Volume 11 and 12 is coming out in late Dec 2013.

My current estimate that it will at least another 18 months before there are enough material to start animating Season 2.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by monir

So question is, do we have enough manga material for a second season?

Short answer. No.

Long answer:

12 episodes won't get you very far in the story, and 25 episodes will require lots of stretching/padding of a few volumes or at least five years of manga.

For reference, the manga is at chapter 49. The anime covered up the chapter 34. The manga first published in 2009.

There's no way you're getting a second season in the next year or two without lots of embellishment of the story, or the author allowing the anime to progress past the manga. The former is possible but unlikely, the latter is next to impossible because it could damage the sales of the manga, which is the opposite of why they even made the anime in the first place.

[moncikoma]

what we know so far :
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-green-lit-yet

Attack on Titan Staff & Cast: More Anime Not Green-Lit Yet
posted on 2013-09-28 23:39 EDT
Pony Canyon pre-screened the last episode of Attack on Titan on Saturday at a live event that streamed in theaters across Japan. The ending card for the 25th and final episode of Attack on Titan hinted at a cliffhanger.

Director Tetsuro Araki, producer Tetsuya Kinoshita, animation producer Tetsuya Nakatake, manga editor Shinataro Kawakubo, and voice actors Yuuki Kaji (Eren), Yui Ishikawa (Mikasa), and Marina Inoue (Armin) attended the event for discussion. Hajime Isayama, the writer and artist for the manga, was a last-minute special guest for the event. After the last episode screened, the staff and cast all implied their intentions and desire to continue the anime in the future. However there has been no green-light given just yet.


lets just wait patiently...im sure in another 2-3 years there will be a green light... big titles ussualy keep hype for 3 years depends on the marketing and sales

i am sure SNK can keep the hype strong around 5 or maybe 7 years...if hollywood also interested tp make the movie...

further more this december there will be an OVA, and next year there will be a live action adaptation

and the hype will still strong until end of 2014 [the manga should be around chapter 63 or so] and the greenlight will be announced, and SNK season 2 should be aired around 2015 april

so the chance is very high that there will be a 2nd season...

[monir]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

Basically it takes 8 Volumes of SnK to animate season 1 (25 episodes)

The author announces that he will end SnK in Volume 20.

We are currently at Volume 11 and 12 is coming out in late Dec 2013.

My current estimate that it will at least another 18 months before there are enough material to start animating Season 2.

Thanks for the info. So it will take at least another four months before season 2 can have a go with enough material at hand. We should also take into consideration how well the BD/DVD and other merchandising will sell.... that if the anime will increase the amount of paying customers for the manga/novel. So depending on those variables alone we are looking at a good six months wait at the earliest for a realistic chance of a second season.

edit: Solace's post reaffirms that we do not have enough material for an immediate second season.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by monir

So question is, do we have enough manga material for a second season?

No we don't. As a manga reader, I also have to say they did change a fair amount of things - but it seems that they're mostly due to adaptation/padding needs, so the setup is there for a 2nd season. But yeah, there's not nearly enough material. Now that It has been announced that the manga should total at 20 volumes, one would say that the best choice would be to go the "FMA: Brotherhood" way, wait for the manga to be near completion and do an anime+manga synchronized ending. But that would mean years of waiting. I don't really know what they will do. They pushed themselves in a corner here, and there's a risk they might have just burned out the best cash cow they could have found in their lives. As things are now, either they wait for the manga (and the craze dies out and moves to other things), or they do original anime material (and most likely they shit all over the franchise).
The only feasible solution I could think of is a second season where they actually spend money to hire GOOD writers and make an anime original ending that doesn't suck. FMA kinda managed to be appreciated by people despite the anime original ending (though I still think it DID suck). It would need to be much better than that. However, it could be the only way to keep the interest alive until there's enough material for a complete anime series - and then either redo the second season, or a complete remake, like FMA and HXH did.