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Old 2014-02-21, 21:49   Link #32961
Irenicus
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
I don't think that (the EU supports nazi-ism) is true, however, I do find it odd the EU and US usual stance that protesters = good, government = bad. Really, it is all about what suits their policy and interest of the day.
It's not a usual stance. It's a convenient stance. The EU/US happen to benefit from supporting the Ukrainian protesters, that's all. Free good publicity, a poke at their geopolitical enemies, there's no reason to support the man who betrayed them for Russia's bribes anyway, popular among their citizens who still believe in the expressed idealism, and if the opposition wins, well all the better.

Witness the sheer frustrating reluctance the Americans showed during the height of the Arab Spring. If the US foreign establishment truly believed in the rhetoric of liberty and democracy, there would have been fiery speeches from the great orator, Barack Obama, extolling the heroes of Tahrir Square and the martyrs of Tunisia.

There is also US silence on the suppression of protest movements in US ally Bahrain, or, prior to the Arab Spring, the relative mildness of US stance in support of Iran's Green Movement.

Witness, also, the suppression of the Occupy movement in the US mainland.

Even so, despite the realpolitik pragmatism of their political leaders, from time to time the institutions and the rhetoric of human rights and liberty resonate so strongly that the people of those countries so less blessed with rights and liberties rally together, borrow these symbols, discard the cynicism and "reality" surrounding them, and made them their own, as is with the European Union's flag and the Maidan. I read the anti-EU comments on the Guardian and I despair, thinking, do these twats whinging about bankruptcy and banksters and Brussels truly understand what those little yellow stars on a blue background mean to the Kievans? It is not Brussels' bureaucracy or central bank policies that they dream of and suffer for, it is hope for a better future. Human hearts hunger for better things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle
Really? You are so certain?

Not talking about the Ukraine BTW, just in general.
There are many, many examples of schemes and operations carried out by the Americans to topple regimes across Latin America, Africa, and Asia to draw from. They much prefer military coups and strongmen -- whom you can negotiate with. They fund sides in civil wars, of course, but they take advantage of existing factional discontent, not nationwide popular uprisings. Iran. Chile. Venezuela (failed). Cuba (failed repeatedly). Nicaragua. The civil war in Congo. Even Afghanistan includes a very strong element of divide and conquer, with the Americans funding the northern tribes against the Taliban from the south.

Why? Well, the American establishment fear chaos and uncertainty as much as anyone else. They know popular movements are uncontrollable, change rapidly from day to day, and you never know what comes out the other end. They don't like to react to unpredictable factors and the rapid rise and fall of parties and actors. It's hard to play diplomacy when the demagogue you know is gone the next day.

And finally, despite the frequent, and utterly disgusting attitude of the authoritarianists that tends to blame these expressions of popular discontent as some sort of foreign plot -- and therefore less than worth listening to -- no one can spark a popular revolution with certainty, not even the communists, who devote entire ideologies around it. They fester with a thousand causes for years and years, they arrive spontaneously from one little spark, explode into history, and either achieves success temporary or permanent, are suppressed, or break down into civil wars. They cannot be controlled.

I truly hope that the Maidan will not go the way of civil wars. We saw what happened in Syria. The latest ceasefire is a sign of hope, but one more foolish provocation from the regime, and Kiev will be in flames again.
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Old 2014-02-22, 04:54   Link #32962
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
There is no action an individual can take that won't have a consequence for others at some point. Nothing is an island unto itself. Champions of personal liberty and celebrants of individualism tend to downplay that.
You speak the truth, but the sphere of influence of a micro-scale such as individual acts upon him/herself is such an invisible bubble, it's understandable why people would think that way. You can't expect everyone to have a bird's eye view, we are by nature, subjective in our vision.
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Old 2014-02-22, 07:41   Link #32963
killer3000ad
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Yanukovich missing, office seized by protesters
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Old 2014-02-22, 07:44   Link #32964
Libros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Lovely. Just..holy shit.
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Old 2014-02-22, 07:51   Link #32965
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
He probably asked asylum to Russia.
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Old 2014-02-22, 07:52   Link #32966
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
That is fast.
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Old 2014-02-22, 08:19   Link #32967
Der Langrisser
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I'm curious what Put-Put next move will be, but I won't be surprised if East part of Ukrain claim to secede from the West part.
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Old 2014-02-22, 08:33   Link #32968
Libros
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How long has it been since this mess started? A week? 2 weeks? I'm not sure if we can be talking about secession just yet but wow this is out of control.
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Old 2014-02-22, 09:00   Link #32969
Netto Azure
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Yeah, 1 day after a supposedly peace settlement was signed, he apparently ran away to his support's stronghold in Ukraine's second largest city. Its getting more and more likely a split of Ukraine between Pro-EU and Pro-Russian elements would happen. Sadly, it seems the past few years has civil wars dominating the news cycle.
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Old 2014-02-22, 09:25   Link #32970
Domonkazu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Langrisser View Post
You're perfectly right, what happens in Thailand is important, and potentially messy.

China's constant whining about Japan's past actions during WWII are like an old geezer neighbour constantly whining; after a moment everybody's stop giving a damn at all at the old coot rambling.

For example, I don't hold a grudge against Germany because my grandfather had been a POW, and forced to work at a weapons factory as forced labour during the war.
the difference is Germany admitted the war they started, and take full blame, but Japan still holding ceremony for their "war criminals" as heroes, imagine if Germany hold a ceremony for Hilter.
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Old 2014-02-22, 09:31   Link #32971
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domonkazu View Post
the difference is Germany admitted the war they started, and take full blame, but Japan still holding ceremony for their "war criminals" as heroes, imagine if Germany hold a ceremony for Hilter.
I think that is quite the point. However, I think we as the subsequent generations should work to reduce ill will between the preious one. Let their hatred die with them, don't carry them on.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-02-22, 10:34   Link #32972
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Italy's Renzi sworn in as prime minister
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1K0M020140222

Detroit automakers worry about UAW money struggles
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...02-22-10-10-42

Nuke test scores fell flat during alleged cheating
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...02-22-10-13-24
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Old 2014-02-22, 10:53   Link #32973
killer3000ad
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Ukraine parliament ousts Yanukovich

Yanu says he's not leaving Ukraine, not quitting either
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Old 2014-02-22, 11:16   Link #32974
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think that is quite the point. However, I think we as the subsequent generations should work to reduce ill will between the preious one. Let their hatred die with them, don't carry them on.
You can't work to reduce ill will when you don't know the cause of it in the first place.
Because of the culture and politics in Japan, a lot of school kids do not know what happened during WWII and why east asia resents them for it. I've heard cases where some exchange students or tourist came to SG's memorials and cried at the stories being told. They were never informed of the impact in school at all.

On the other end. WWII (any nationalistic ones actually) issues are good for stirring up support during poll downturns or scandals. They will not go away anytime soon. It's just a that convenient a tool.
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Old 2014-02-22, 11:17   Link #32975
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Langrisser View Post
I'm curious what Put-Put next move will be, but I won't be surprised if East part of Ukrain claim to secede from the West part.
Well the Ukraine would do well NOT to invade the eastern part if it opts to join Russia...

Like the brilliant move Georgia tried...
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Old 2014-02-22, 11:36   Link #32976
killer3000ad
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They've found some sweet bling bling at Yanu's estate, GOLD coins with his own mug emblazoned on it.
Spoiler for Size:

Tonnes more pics here. http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html
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Last edited by killer3000ad; 2014-02-22 at 11:59.
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Old 2014-02-22, 11:57   Link #32977
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
They've found some sweet bling bling at Yanu's estate, GOLD coins with his own mug emblazoned on it.
Spoiler for Size:
To be sure: are those bills made of gold? I mean, I've heard of waste but this is just..you can't even..there are no words. 'Decadent' is a good word but I fear it doesn't fully describe this..
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Old 2014-02-22, 12:06   Link #32978
sbg711
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy61WCXpWR4
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Old 2014-02-22, 12:11   Link #32979
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Central Valley farmers took a crippling blow Friday when U.S. officials made the unprecedented announcement that they would get no irrigation water from the federal government this year because of the drought.
But growers in a region with the country's most productive soil said the loss of one of their chief water supplies won't be their problem alone: Consumers will be hit hard in the form of higher prices at the produce market.
California's unusually dry weather is forcing producers of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains to make tough decisions about which crops to plant, and which ones not to plant due to a lack of water, leaving harvests that are likely to fall short of demand.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/D...rs-5256131.php
instead of building the keystone pipeline so Canada can sell oil to world at higher prices. i think the US should built a transcontinental pipeline to transport water form wet states to dry states.
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Old 2014-02-22, 12:30   Link #32980
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
instead of building the keystone pipeline so Canada can sell oil to world at higher prices. i think the US should built a transcontinental pipeline to transport form wet states to dry states.
That would be the better choice for the country, especially than the keystone pipeline will help only a small number and risk to screw over a shitload of regular citizen and communities.
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