To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 10 Discussion / Poll

[mark1246]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

They were planning to defeat Touma without hurting him too much since they had an idea of what went down between Touma and Othinus but then Touma hit their jealously button by mentioning the fight with Mikoto and Birdway decided to use her trump card: Little Gungnir, created refining the properties of Gungnir as a thrown weapon that could be used only once. They thought that using the weapon of a god was their only sure shot of killing a magic god. However they didn't know what happens when you throw Gungnir (only Touma and Othinus know so far).

As we don't see Birdway use Little Gungnir we don't know if it would cause the destruction of the world like with the real Gungnir Othinus used. Going by common sense it would be nerfed but still cause ridiculous amounts of destruction; not something you would use on a single person a few meters away from you.

Ok so for sure they wanted to kill othinus, damn index you were really cold to let that happen. But thanks man for explaining it, was a big help, can't believe we're almost done, seem like a short volume through out this trip of a novel

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Why are all the 'good' guys in this series so horrendously violent? I swear to Aleister.

Since when is Sylvia even remotely "good" in any sense?

Originally Posted by Miraluka

To b honest Othinus didn't move me but Silvia who was full Kratos on Touma, she lost her cool thanks to witnessing what happened to Ollerus.

Of course. Her boy toy is no longer so powerful now so she must rip some kid apart out of pique, despite the fact that said boy toy coming out alive from that fight at all is a win of itself....right...

[Verrueckter]

Originally Posted by dniv

Thinking about it now... Touma is likely the only person in history who went from having killed 0 people to killing 6 billion people immediately, and still trying to be a good guy. That's still pretty hard on him. That sense of responsibility must be nuts. You never killed until that moment... That's tough.

However, since fighting Misaka he no longer has to carry that weight. She has changed his perspective on that "sin".

[The One Above God]

Will we get a double chapter tomorrow? no? okay...
It would be really great if we get another double chapter tomorrow though..

[Atrum023]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

They were planning to defeat Touma without hurting him too much since they had an idea of what went down between Touma and Othinus but then Touma hit their jealously button by mentioning the fight with Mikoto and Birdway decided to use her trump card: Little Gungnir, created refining the properties of Gungnir as a thrown weapon that could be used only once. They thought that using the weapon of a god was their only sure shot of killing a magic god. However they didn't know what happens when you throw Gungnir (only Touma and Othinus know so far).

As we don't see Birdway use Little Gungnir we don't know if it would cause the destruction of the world like with the real Gungnir Othinus used. Going by common sense it would be nerfed but still cause ridiculous amounts of destruction; not something you would use on a single person a few meters away from you.

Actually, I wasn't too sure about the whole replicating the effect of the Real Gungnir thing. From what was mentioned, it was true they had absolutely no idea what throwing Gungnir would do, but from Birdway's thoughts as mentioned here:

(Othinus and the boy both know how far a magic god can go, so I just have to draw it out of them. I can’t reproduce the gods or their weapons, but if I can draw the phenomenon of destruction from their heads, I’ll have the means to kill one.)

It seems like Birdway was invoking the memories of the two (Touma and Othinus) who had witnessed the effect of Gungnir purposely so that she could replicate it. Without that memory, her Gungnir wouldn't be able to do anything.

...is what I thought. I could be wrong.

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by Atrum023

Actually, I wasn't too sure about the whole replicating the effect of the Real Gungnir thing. From what was mentioned, it was true they had absolutely no idea what throwing Gungnir would do, but from Birdway's thoughts as mentioned here:

It seems like Birdway was invoking the memories of the two (Touma and Othinus) who had witnessed the effect of Gungnir purposely so that she could replicate it. Without that memory, her Gungnir wouldn't be able to do anything.

...is what I thought. I could be wrong.

Yes it could be a bluff and without that memory the spear might have been useless but even so she wanted to use that to imitate the destruction phenomenon of a thrown Gungnir to kill Othinus.

Spoiler for Little Gungnir:

Her lance could not control a magic god’s power.

Nor could it recreate the world.

It instead focused on the head god’s attack. It took that single fragment of the great power of the gods and allowed a human to make a high-quality recreation of that phenomenon which was included in the lance.

What was magic in the first place?

A fragile human could only contain so much. A small human hand could only scoop up a tiny amount. That meant they could not make the legends of the gods their own and they could not completely take the actions of the gods for themselves.

That was why they cut it down to size.

Rather going broad and shallow, they would go narrow and deep. They would extract a single point, repeatedly hone that one point, occasionally expand the interpretation, and ultimately reach an independent and individual technique.

(You could call this an imitation divine technique.)

This was the original form of spells.

It was a strange system that humans created to grant their own wishes, even if it meant desecrating the gods.

And thus it was detested by many religious people and clergymen.

(Man cannot kill a god, but a phenomenon extracted from a magic god should be able to reach that magic god!! She will be destroyed by the very system she created!!)

Not even Birdway knew what would happen once she released that lance.

Her only expectation was for it to be an attack that even Magic God Othinus would believe.

Maybe if Othinus or Touma believed the spear had the same power as Gungnir it would have gained that power. Since it wasn't used who knows?

[LG-MAX 2.o]

Originally Posted by Verrueckter

However, since fighting Misaka he no longer has to carry that weight. She has changed his perspective on that "sin".

Touma will always carry this sin, Mikoto can not erase the sins of others, as well Touma can not erase sins her, what she did was help him at to accept this of a way better.

[Miraluka]

Even with Silvia being this vengeful, what she did was nice compared to what White Cosmos did to Saffron Blossom and Chrome Falcon from Accel World(;___; )

Originally Posted by runset

This is where we can see touma's growth. It's true that he cannot do anything to stop a saint's attack nor wins againts her. At least his endurance leveled up way too much if we compared when he faced acqua for the first time. In the past he quickly get knocked out by acqua'a attack and this time he can withstand a relentless brutal attack from silvia while retaining his consciousness.

Actually, Silvia didn't want Touma to lose his consciousness.

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Extremely good Othinus moments on the chapter and Ollerus shows his guts in sacrificing his arms to KO two Saints (which is similar as to how Kanzaki KO Knight Leader by running into him). Ollerus was also smart enough to realize killing one of them would make the other very very mad.

And kind, think about this:

- Ollerus didn't want one of them having a severe change which leads to the question, Why don't just kill both?

He just lied.

Originally Posted by dniv

But both of them are always very focused on their goals, and also are aware of their surroundings. They always help others even if someone else is in trouble.
I can't see them blindly massacring people to save someone. That would probably be more of a former Knight Leader, or former Princess Carissa, or an Accelerator thing to do. That also might have been emphasized mainly to point out that Othinus was really strong at that time, rather than over ambitious, though I'm sure it's still somewhat true.

Tell that to the Orlean Knights(all of them slaughtered to save a single girl) .

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Since when is Sylvia even remotely "good" in any sense?

She is a saint, they're good by nature, just look how she worked to help about 100 homeless kids Ollerus brought to home.

The issue here is, the saints methods varies and Othinus messed up with her Ollerus, pushing the wrong button on Silvia.

Of course. Her boy toy is no longer so powerful now so she must rip some kid apart out of pique, despite the fact that said boy toy coming out alive from that fight at all is a win of itself....right...

I'm twisting this but what would you(and other people) think of this chapter if Silvia was pregnant of Ollerus?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

She is a saint, they're good by nature, just look how she worked to help about 100 homeless kids Ollerus brought to home.

The issue here is, the saints methods varies and Othinus messed up with her Ollerus, pushing the wrong button on Silvia.


I'm twisting this but what would you(and other people) think of this chapter if Silvia was pregnant of Ollerus?

She is a saint means she has Jesus body. Not whether she is good or not



Makes no difference. ollerus is alive. No reason to kill a kid over him getting fairy-ed

The great difference between Brynhilde and her is that Brynhilde does not overkill or take pleasure in as she puts it..."games"...Sylvia OTOH is a nutjob

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

She is a saint means she has Jesus body. Not whether she is good or not



Makes no difference. ollerus is alive. No reason to kill a kid over him getting fairy-ed

I think you're missing how saints are described in this series aside from their bodily characteristics.

Are you sure? Isn't that similar to saying hurting people but letting it go because they're alive is fine? I don't think many agree on this view.


About Brunhild, no, didn't you notice she said that she didn't want to join her fun but not stop it? Why? Because what she did to the Norse cabals she slaughtered is no different, they're more similar than a first glance tells.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I think you're missing how saints are described in this series aside from their bodily characteristics.

Are you sure? Isn't that similar to saying hurting people but letting it go because they're alive is fine? I don't think many agree on this view.

Just because they have the power of the son of god doesn't mean they're automatically good people. They are individuals who have their own goals and motivations.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

Just because they have the power of the son of god doesn't mean they're automatically good people. They are individuals who have their own goals and motivations.

True, but see how the saints from the series are so far, all of them are good will persons... until something makes them snap.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

True, but see how the saints from the series are so far, all of them are good will persons... until something makes them snap.

could be, or they're just like Solf J. Kimblee. A façade. we don't know much about some of them to truly make a call.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I think you're missing how saints are described in this series aside from their bodily characteristics.

Are you sure? Isn't that similar to saying hurting people but letting it go because they're alive is fine? I don't think many agree on this view.


About Brunhild, no, didn't you notice she said that she didn't want to join her fun but not stop it? Why? Because what she did to the Norse cabals she slaughtered is no different, they're more similar than a first glance tells.

TBH, i think what Cosmic eagle said is correct, what's the saint have is the body similar to the son of god, their personalities is not part of the equation. while it's true that their anger is legitimate, Sylvia is just plain nuts.

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

True, but see how the saints from the series are so far, all of them are good will persons... until something makes them snap.

But in that sense, both sides are part of them and equally count. Planning to torture the living shit out of a boy to death while making the partner watch, no matter the classification, is more twisted than good-will. It depends, really.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I think you're missing how saints are described in this series aside from their bodily characteristics.

Are you sure? Isn't that similar to saying hurting people but letting it go because they're alive is fine? I don't think many agree on this view.


About Brunhild, no, didn't you notice she said that she didn't want to join her fun but not stop it? Why? Because what she did to the Norse cabals she slaughtered is no different, they're more similar than a first glance tells.

They are described like everything else. People who aren't "saintly" paragons of good . People who are like normal people in behaviour in fact.

I'm not going to force my view on you but I'll just end off by saying brutally torturing some innocent party to death in front of another person for wounding someone else is not only utterly disproportionate, it's also fucked up depravity that makes you worse than the other party.

If everyone subscribed to this view and had the means to enact it, you and I would be wading in blood by now

You and "many people" are welcome to hold a contrary view of course. I myself am damned well clear where I stand on this



She did not stop it...well in all cases, she'll most likely kill them both anyway. She doesn't feel strongly enough to stop it but it's still something she'd rather not do. That is difference enough

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

could be, or they're just like Solf J. Kimblee. A façade. we don't know much about some of them to truly make a call.

Kanzaki - messiah complex girl, Touma made her snap because of Index.
William - wanted to become a Knight to protect UK and joined GRS to bring salvation to the world.
Silvia - left her duties as the royal maid for the sake of a crybaby man who sought power an use it to help people and didn't mind taking care of homeless kids until they get a family or taken by an orphanage. Touma made her snap because of Ollerus.
Brunhild - lived a peaceful life and even after her own cabal was destroyed she wasn't vengeful about it until they made her snap when she was told the little boy who feeded her committed suicide for her.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Kanzaki - messiah complex girl, Touma made her snap because of Index.
William - wanted to become a Knight to protect UK and joined GRS to bring salvation to the world.
Silvia - left her duties as the royal maid for the sake of a crybaby man who sought power an use it to help people and didn't mind taking care of homeless kids until they get a family or taken by an orphanage. Touma made her snap because of Ollerus.
Brunhild - lived a peaceful life and even after her own cabal was destroyed she wasn't vengeful about it until they made her snap when she was told the little boy who feeded her committed suicide for her.

yes so far the saint seem to be all good, but that's didn't guarantee that being good is a part of a Saint nature. Infact, some of them have their own scary side, in the end, they are just human in nature.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Kanzaki - messiah complex girl, Touma made her snap because of Index.
William - wanted to become a Knight to protect UK and joined GRS to bring salvation to the world.
Silvia - left her duties as the royal maid for the sake of a crybaby man who sought power an use it to help people and didn't mind taking care of homeless kids until they get a family or taken by an orphanage. Touma made her snap because of Ollerus.
Brunhild - lived a peaceful life and even after her own cabal was destroyed she wasn't vengeful about it until they made her snap when she was told the little boy who feeded her committed suicide for her.

All that says to me is while they do have a good 'side' to them, they have a darker side to them as well. But realize this, I'm not saying the few saints we have been introduced to are the ones who can be bat-shit crazy and what not.
It's like what Touma said when fighting Fiamma;

“It’s over, Fiamma,” Kamijou said quietly as he brought his right fist up at the ready. “Your right arm that is at the center of your plan is losing power and your ceremonial grounds you call the Star of Bethlehem is no longer usable. And most importantly, if you truly wanted to save the world, you would be rejoicing at the fact that the virtue within people’s hearts is winning out over the malice. …The fact that you cannot do that shows that your illusion has already failed.”

So far they've "taken the high road" you could say for now. But they all have their dark side and dark actions, sometimes they do it without realizing they are acting on that side. I've posted similar things in the past.

[Miraluka]

@Cosmic Eagle and others

They're not perfect beings nor faultless people, just that they have more predisposition to do good than any other people but when facing situations that involves people they care of they behave like any other human being.

Remember what Hamazura said at the end of WWIII?
Saints are no exception, even Touma can be really cruel to the point of enjoying others pain and suffering(vol.17)