2008-12-16, 02:11 | Link #21 | |
frozen in time
|
Quote:
I guess, anime/manga really do have a huge impact in our lives.. not that I only noticed it now.. But really, sometimes we just can't help but look for those traits that we idolize in an anime character with real people.. :3 |
|
2008-12-16, 03:16 | Link #22 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
|
Quote:
I think a bigger concern for many geeks is just social aptitude. I already know a cute, slightly nerdy meganekko, but I haven't had the nerve to ask her out - and discussing what happened in last week's Gundam 00 is definitely "friends" territory. |
|
2008-12-16, 03:21 | Link #23 | |
HI, BILLY MAYS HERE
|
Quote:
It's one thing to look at fictional anime characters as eye candy of sorts, but then to drop all interest in real life people? Abnormal... |
|
2008-12-16, 03:54 | Link #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
|
well, there are some people who've never seen anime and will never have kids so the idea of "ending your family bloodline" is not so strange
as far as the preference of 2d > 3d, it's not that they've completely sworn off all interest in RL people, it's just that they haven't come across anyone yet whom they're attracted to (chaos; head, lol).. and maybe they never will.. |
2008-12-16, 03:59 | Link #26 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
|
Its mostly only a disaster for Japan where their marriage and birthrates are plummeting like paralyzed falcon.
Myself, still stewing on how to answer the OP query.... maybe tomorrow (I'll just edit here).
__________________
|
2008-12-16, 09:26 | Link #27 | |||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
|
Quote:
xcept that of course anime beauty >>> RL beauty. on other hand, anime intelligence <<< RL intelligence (for men at least, women not so sure ). Quote:
Quote:
simple answer: no. whether you are attracted to real women/men/children/cats/dogs/w.e., or not, is largely meaningless regarding your achievements in life and contributions to mankind. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
2008-12-16, 13:41 | Link #28 |
HI, BILLY MAYS HERE
|
*facepalm*
Mumitroll... There is a specific reason why I worded my statements in a "Cause and reason" structure in order to maintain thread relevance...What you're doing is making assumptions far beyond the obvious context of what my posts contained and making something else out of it...There's a reason why I state things to the certain effect of "People aren't interested in real life women because they're too interested in fictional anime women" and not "People aren't interested in real life women because they're losers in general"... If someone says "I don't prefer real life women because I prefer fictional anime women", it outlines a specific reason and context, different from a more general statement "I don't prefer real life women" which is left up for interpretation...In this thread you're seeing a lot of the former statement and none of the latter statement, which is why I'm not addressing those who aren't attracted to real life women without any accompanying specific reasons...Were Turing, Tchaikovsky, and Tesla not attracted to women because they had a deeper attraction to fictional anime women? No...As a matter of fact, those three have never heard of "anime" in the first place because it didn't exist back then...Context irrelevance... You should've read my last post in reverse chronological order because it would've then given you a more general explanation to the "not attracted to real life women" reasons...I clearly said "It's only strange depending on the reason for being a lifelong virgin", keyword: Depending...Is there a such thing as normal justification? Absolutely...There's a big difference in saying "I'm not attracted because my attention lies with science" and "I'm not attracted because my attention lies with fictional characters", one being an understandable explanation, the other being an awkward explanation...Dimebag Darrell (Guitarist of Pantera/Damageplan) and Jason Newstead (Bassist of Metallica) were to people completely devoted to their love of playing music; Dimebag had a girlfriend and no kids, Jason doesn't bother dating...Is that understandable? Yes... In either case, the last paragraph is out of line with the context of this thread, so I'll leave it at that... |
2008-12-16, 18:34 | Link #30 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
|
Quote:
I dont see an overly large difference between liking anime characters and liking various other imaginary characters, out of books or any other works of fiction for example. its merely a difference in imaginative ability - anime makes it much easier than books, for example, since you get both ultra-quality visual imagery and exquisite audio data served to you on a silver plate, instead of mere written text where you have to use your own imagination to invent both images and voices. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
human life is not a zoo - where a panda bear is supposed to mate and produce offspring - or a concentration camp (at least for most of us). my opinion is that you should be able to do what you like to do, and not what others want you to, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. again, to re-state: I think your whole point of trying to argue that "real" women > 2D women is more low-level social conditioning than anything else. it may all change quite a lot within the next 50-100 years. it will certainly change bigtime once highlevel AI in combination with very mobile HQ androids becomes widespread. Last edited by Mumitroll; 2008-12-16 at 19:57. |
||||
2008-12-16, 20:36 | Link #31 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2008-12-17, 13:12 | Link #32 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
|
Just to state something that should be extremely obvious: the comments about a person preferring fictional characters, be they male or female, over their real life equivalents, has lots of merit. It does indicate some kind of disassociative disorder, however mild it may be. Lots of people have an opinion about this, and it could lead to interesting discussions.
I, for one, thought this kinda behavior was limited to extremely obsessed people, who have problems dealing with reality - and I never expected to read comments in a board like this with people professing such preferences. Again, my opinion. You may disagree. But, please, do not confuse it with people who have no interest in either fictional or real life partners, or - gasp - people who simply prefer their partners outside of their socially perceived correct gender. That's a whole different ball of whack and not pertinent to the thread in any way. And, yes, there is such a thing, even if some people disagree, or think it childish. The whole point of threads in a discussion forum is to keep the subject being discussed within some kinda boundary - albeit, sometimes it is quite a dubious one, I admit. But it's one of the tools we have to organize things, and should be followed.
__________________
|
2008-12-17, 15:42 | Link #33 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
lastly, being simply misanthropic is a fairly common trait all over the world, and has been for ages. many famous philosophers like Schopenhauer or Nietzsche were misanthropes. again, so what? also, keep in mind that this is merely a snapshot of today's social norms. which are far from being even close to stable. on the contrary, they change all the time. merely 50 years ago, Turing was forced into suicide for being a homosexual, despite being a major figure in mathematics - in one of the first-world countries. today it is relatively widely accepted, although still far from being universally accepted. myself i strongly suspect in 50-100 years preferring 2D (or artificial 3D) over "real" 3D will be commonplace. given a sufficient technological level, it's easier to make an ideal partner than to find one who is naturally ideal or anywhere close to it. this is not my original idea either. it was expressed by various people, like for example Henry Kuttner, William Gibson, etc. it is a whole other question whether this is actually good or bad for mankind in general. most people who've thought about it consider it to be probably fairly bad, with some opinions ranging even as far as completely detrimental for humanity. my own opinion is not very far from that. in general, I think any kind of elaborate virtual world/personality/partner/w.e. that eats up time is probably bad from a mankind standpoint. it results in stagnation or even regress. it can be nicely observed already today in the rich countries - current students are getting ever worse on average - there's simply too much fun stuff to do except studying. there are ever more singles - life as a single is becoming ever more comfy and pleasing - and fewer children. Japan is a prime example of this since it's probably most advanced in the virtualization aspect. the highly detrimental demographic results are already becoming very plainly visible - Japan is on a steady way towards becoming a nation of old people. e.g. Germany is a bit behind, but not very different. in 100 years, once very HQ virtual worlds with full sensory integration become available - I dont even mention an interface to the brain - RL will probably go very much downhill. there's simply no getting around the fact that imagination is potentially far more attractive than RL. tough luck for us RL people well thats provided that humanity will actually live till then - which I am reasonably sceptical about Last edited by Mumitroll; 2008-12-17 at 16:25. |
|||
2008-12-17, 17:51 | Link #34 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
|
In all fairness, Mumitroll, you kinda disavow your whole point with your closing statements: if it is detrimental to mankind as a whole to "like" fictional people over real life people, how can it be okay to do so? Or do you (or whomever thinks so does) claim to not be a part of mankind? Again, another whole ball of whack. And please, no cross-connections: we're discussing a point dealing with preferences of fictional over real, when dealing with the same concept. Don't mix this with other obsessive-compulsive (however debatable) kinda behavior, as I, for one, have no interest in discussing them.
Note that I don't dwell over the point of the other "deviant" patterns of behavior you mention (be they misanthropy, homosexuality, whatever), as they are not, to my view, a matter of perception of reality itself. No matter how the standards of society might change one day - today, this behavior we're discussing is not something I'd consider normal. Sorry. As for your quip about dissociative disorders, forgive me, but the whole problem of awareness and perception seems pretty much the focus when someone claims to prefer fictional men/women over real ones, to the point of not acknowledging the later. At least, it does seem like it to most psychiatrists I know...
__________________
|
2008-12-17, 18:37 | Link #35 | |||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 44
|
Quote:
Quote:
if you say "yes": fast-forward a little further into future, to the point where AI is at the level or perhaps even beyond human mind complexity, and robot technology is obviously similarly advanced (its easier anyway). take an anime character, auto-expand its personality along plot lines, generate memories corresponding to the plot, and insert into an android. the android will behave just like that anime character if it were a human. hard to argue that there is still any fiction left about that, isn't it? if you say "no": then you basically have to admit that there is no fundamental difference between 2D "fiction" and 3D "reality", just technical issues. and if you dont insist on having "tangible" stuff - i.e. if for you a virtual conscience is the same as a "3D" one based on a real brain - then with the creation of a brain interface this whole argument will become meaningless. consciences would be able to take any kind of form, and any distinction between "real" and "fictional" would largely disappear. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
and btw, again, similar to the discussion in the economy thread.. "most psychiatrists" is not an authority for me. if you are unable to defend your standpoint with logical argumentation, you lose. simple as that. no matter what "most XYZ" may think - or be believed to think. |
|||||
2008-12-17, 19:19 | Link #36 | |||||||
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
|
Quote:
Quote:
And, like I said, I have no interest in digressing over other assorted "deviant" behavior, so your first point is forfeit. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And I have no idea what you're talking about, when you refer to a thread about economy. I don't participate in one, so I don't really care about what happens in it.
__________________
|
|||||||
2008-12-17, 19:23 | Link #37 | |
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
|
Quote:
While it won't cause an individual any suffering or disability, it can still destroy society.
__________________
|
|
2008-12-17, 19:32 | Link #40 | ||
Weapon of Mass Discussion
Fansubber
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
|
Quote:
The question here is if someone would accept a mate they deem inferior to their dreams in order to serve their role as part of society. This is honestly not very different from asking someone to accept an arranged marriage in order to fulfill their position in society. As people's sense of themselves as cogs in a group diminishes, history is showing that they start to insist that they need to be "in love" with their mate. If someone can only love an artificial woman, then we have a conflict. Quote:
If a majority of people do not procreate, it would obviously "destroy society" as he posits. Do you believe that someone should accept a mate that they are not in love with in order to procreate?
__________________
|
||
|
|