(L) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.

[terribad]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Can't sales be result of episode. 5? I mean it was pretty much most epic episode so far (last 2 minutes at least) and caught many people off guard. I were going myself ask about sales (and thus for chance for 2ndyou season/ova)on after that...

On the chance your responding to me. I didn't say that sales can't be; I said that it was unlikely if you believe my evidence. I really liked the end too if that's worth anything. Anyway I think the problem here is people are very bad at intuitively understanding probability - at least according to Cracked. What is a 1/256 chance, can you imagine it? We learn best by using a combination our right and left sides of our brains. Sure we can logically understand it but visually (naturally) it's difficult for me at least. Following that what we don't understand we tend to "forget" - questionable source is Derren Brown. As anecdotal evidence, if I were to repeat a sentence after reading it once, the first word I would likely forget would have a chance connotation. [Cracked is pretty popular so if I'm wrong; I hope people will correct me on that article.] Anyway I try to keep all possibilities open so I force myself to write "perhaps", "maybe" and "most likely" for most things. I think much of the above is scientific fact so I'll spare myself from littering my argument. Perhaps I should have wrote if I'm correct....

Originally Posted by larethian

You've heard the anime was rated average by Japanese? I'm not doubting what you heard, but just wondering where you heard it from or are you alluding to the preorder sales of the BD/DVDs of this series, and using it as a correlation to decide what the Japanese think of the anime? If it's the former, I will be interested to know where you hear it from. If it's the later, then it's a mistake to use that as a correlation, since anime buyers are anime collectors (not necessarily LN readers), and moreover Oregairu is competing with a large number of great titles this season for the limited resources of the anime collectors.

Anime market is larger than the LN market? What figures are you basing this on? Right now, since you had mentioned 'anime market', I'm more convinced that you are trying to make correlations between anime sales and LN sales, which does not make sense to me at all. Firstly, for the record, anime sales are usually in the 4-figure arena and only the really big hits make it into the 5-figures (>10k), while average book sales will easily go into 5 (lower end) to 6 (higher end) figures (though anything doing above 200k copies per year is considered well above average and can be considered a hit series though stuff like SAO hit an insane 2 million last year) a year. Maybe, the market value of anime might be higher with better margins (I'm not sure), but counting the numbers, it's obvious 'more' people buy cheaper LNs than buy expensive anime.

One of the reasons why sales of Oregairu LN has increaseed is probably as per what Chaos2Frozen once alluded to. Oregairu LN ranked no. 6 in "This Light Novel is Amazing 2013" (among LN readers, this is the currently perceived authority in ranking LNs in terms of content quality, not popularity/sales). This would have brought LN readers attention to the title. After watching the anime, some of them might have decided to buy the LNs (since they are primarily LN readers). So this is not really surprising. Of course, if the anime was very badly made, this might not have happened, so I would consider that the anime has achieved some degree of success despite its bleak anime preorders.

While the LN sales have apparently increased, the significance of the increase is still questionable. This is because even though Tsutaya is huge, it is but one among a number of other large, popular book retailers. If you want a more accurate picture in terms of 'significance' and how it stands among other titles, Oricon is a better measure. If you look at this page, Tsutaya is actually just one of the cooperating stores for the compiled figures published by Oricon: http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/index4.html

And ever since volume 7 was released, Oregairu has yet to break into top 30 for the 2nd time in the weekly rankings (of course this doesn't mean it is doing badly, as there are a large number of titles and even the worse ranked - no. 30 - is doing more than 5k in the week). Just that, in RELATIVE terms, it's far from stellar compared to other titles. But I think we can get more conclusive figures after the anime ends and if the publisher is willing to give actual figures. OVerall, I would say the LN sales boost is not surprising, but I'm not sure whether they are actually significant enough. To make a comparison, one of the series I love, Densetsu Yuusha no Densetsu, has pathetic BD/DVD sales, but received almost a 500k copies boost in LN sales (from 3.8 million to about 4.3 million). Now, that's what I would call significant (even though it already has over 20 volumes in the series). Of course I don't even want to talk about the LN boost for SAO and AW (and they even have superb BD/DVD sales).

As for the publish dates, dates are set by publishers and each publisher usually has a set date every month and adheres to it. All titles released by the same publisher are usually published on the very same date each month.

This is the post I wanted to see and why I said I know little about business. As an overall impression what you said didn't seem obvious to me. What's obvious depends on the person although there is often a great overlap. Sometimes the greatest discoveries are from questioning common knowledge. Furthermore this is why I posted my interpretation so someone can correct me and I can expand my knowledge or at least perspective. I read that people learn easier from corrections than just being told. Also I'm not saying that all the posts other than yours weren't useful but yours is the most comprehensive and backed by plausible evidence. If nothing else I believe in: Ask stupid questions, get smart answers depending on the person.

1st paragraph. Honestly I'm not sure and I said "heard" because I don't remember. If I knew I likely would have referenced the source like I do for my LN comments but of course you didn't know that. I've had another quick look and no luck. I might have seen it on myanimelist or 4chan. It was more along the lines of: "Japanese viewers find it OK overall" or "It's not very popular because of the lack of fan made content for the anime in comparison to stuff like SnK , Gargantia or pretty much any anime of the season". I don't really believe it either but that was best info I had at the time so I assumed it was true. Anyway most of my arguments (def is in accordance to critical thinking; my Dad has a problem with the word "argument") for other members assumed that was true.

2nd Paragraph. What figures I'm basing it on? None, I was just trying to reconcile things. Here's my line reasoning with the info I had. Oregairu was rated an average anime. Oregairu's first volume was number 1 on the list. I guessed that means only anime-first watchers brought the volume since it was pretty popular as a LN already. But how did a small fraction of the anime- first watchers, who enjoyed it and decided to buy Vol 1, result in it being number 1 on the list? [I just speculated that it could be a LN dry season perhaps but that besides the point]. An answer could be that anime market is much larger than the LN market and notably mutually exclusive. Following that even a small fraction of the anime market will produce good sales. The anime market being bigger than the LN market was again just me trying to connect the dots.

3rd paragraph. I always wondered how important that ranking system was. I just assumed it was since most of the Light Novels on the top 10 get an anime adaptation. However you describe it as a "top authority", is there any basis for that apart from what I said. Maybe that guide book is a monopoly concerning official LN ranking. Average can mean " I don't like it but I don't dislike it either", "sure it's good but it balanced out by the bad" or "compared to sales of other anime this season, it's in the average range". The point there being that I didn't mean to imply that the anime had no success. English is my first language but it seems that "words fail me". [Okay I'm desperate that someone gets that quote from a certain magical abridged series].

4th paragraph. That's precisely why I said I don't know how much of the market the chain takes so I don't how relevant it is for the reasons you said. What I meant to say was: Given the information I think the following is a reasonable assumption but bear in mind I don't know how much of the market the chain takes. Although I didn't consider what sales mean in a more absolute sense even if it was first. For the sake of simplicity I assumed it was a monopoly hoping someone like yourself would do the work for me. It follows then that I thank you for the link.

5th paragraph. Ah good old relativity it makes arguments so much easier; it doesn't look bad as a theory either. I really enjoy "The legend of the legendary heroes" as well despite its redundant English title. I watched the anime first and I've started with the Light Novels but I think they're incomplete. In order to avoid another Oregairu where I had to wait three - four months everyday for more, I stopped at a complete volume which is 1 or 2.

6th paragraph. You say the "very same date". Here I was with impression that Wataru was a punctual writer but now the opposite may be more correct. On the other hand how does he measure up against other LN writers? In fact you don't have to answer because I'm just being lazy again.

Originally Posted by csuree

Hi terri.... I think you were referring to the quotes above when replying to me.
I am very sorry if I gave you a bad impression. or something like that....It was never intended to be that way. I'm having trouble with communicating and social relationships so I might have made some blunders......I apologize for them.

Anyway you can write it down exactly what was my offense, I will read it, analyze it, but I'm not the kind of person who holds a grudge because someone told me something unpleasant that was also a truth. I wanna reflect on what I did.

Well also economics is for those who are inside it. I as a consumer am happy that many like the series but that is all I need to know....the rest is the accountants, managers, and marketing people's duty.

as for the TV series.... they might just go 13 episodes given the summer season kicks off July 1st, Monday. If they go 12 episodes 1 week will be empty.
This is just my speculation, I have no proof......maybe I'm right maybe not; We'll see.

I was really explaining myself to the guests mostly. It's that whole unknown factor again. If you get the wrong impression you can just correct me. As for the guests they can just quietly seethe or whatever bad thing my mind cooks up.

I have no problems with you because I don't know you. Consider all the differing and conflicting opinions over relatively simple fictional characters. Here we also have much more intimate window into their lives than most real people would in casual, familial or even, I'm talking out of my ass here, romantic relationships. Furthermore there's a lot of cognitive bias that goes into human relationships if so how accurate can I say any analysis was of you? I don't even remember a fraction of the cognitive biases so I can't even attempt to calibrate myself. The point there is, for me now, human psychology is way too complex for me to make a judgement on. As I like accuracy and I'm lazy, I endeavour to take the neutral perspective for everyone that is, I tend to not like or dislike people. Although what people do can irritate me but reason is a way of dealing with that emotion.

I like your reaction to criticism. I would explain why but this is probably the post the size of Everest by now - okay I can't be bothered.

Finally, Economics are for those who are inside it? Where's the fun or learning in that?

[larethian]

Originally Posted by terribad

1st paragraph. Honestly I'm not sure and I said "heard" because I don't remember. If I knew I likely would have referenced the source like I do for my LN comments but of course you didn't know that. I've had another quick look and no luck. I might have seen it on myanimelist or 4chan. It was more along the lines of: "Japanese viewers find it OK overall" or "It's not very popular because of the lack of fan made content for the anime in comparison to stuff like SnK , Gargantia or pretty much any anime of the season". I don't really believe it either but that was best info I had at the time so I assumed it was true. Anyway most of my arguments (def is in accordance to critical thinking; my Dad has a problem with the word "argument") for other members assumed that was true.

What I currently believe is that most people are making such comments based on the BD/DVD preorders.

Originally Posted by terribad

3rd paragraph. I always wondered how important that ranking system was. I just assumed it was since most of the Light Novels on the top 10 get an anime adaptation. However you describe it as a "top authority", is there any basis for that apart from what I said. Maybe that guide book is a monopoly concerning official LN ranking. Average can mean " I don't like it but I don't dislike it either", "sure it's good but it balanced out by the bad" or "compared to sales of other anime this season, it's in the average range". The point there being that I didn't mean to imply that the anime had no success. English is my first language but it seems that "words fail me". [Okay I'm desperate that someone gets that quote from a certain magical abridged series].

First, just to reiterate, I used 'perceived authority' to describe it as many (but not all) light novel readers I know take strong consideration on the 'results' and comments in this light novel guidebook on what titles to pick up in the new year. Polls close in November and the guidebook is published in December, and "This Light Novel is Amazing 2013" is based on the works released in 2012 but I'm guessing it says 2013 instead as we readers use it to make new selections in 2013. Why this guidebook can be seen as 'perceived authority' is also because it has a very comprehensive metric system to rate light novels. I do not know of any other well-defined system except for Konorano. Without this guidebook, people will just be relying on sales figures, and sometimes great works are missed out because of that (due to the large number of light novels published each year by the hundreds). The metric is a combination of 3 parameters, a public poll which anyone can vote on the homepage, a collaborator rating (Collaborators = selected industry professionals and amateurs including authors, editors, publisher staff, bookstore staff/owners, special interest groups, etc.), a monitor group (which comprises of a select number of readers between 12-18 years old and who have read more than 51 light novels a year). After the rankings, the guidebook will explain how its parameters work for that year (it changes a little every year), and subsequently more detailed reviews/comments (from the voters) will be given for each of the 60 ranked novels. In recent years, greater weightage has been given to the collaborator group as the metric tends to be skewed towards the public poll due to the comparatively larger sample size (by the thousands). Voters get a number of votes (5 IIRC) with 5 different values, thus they can vote 5 titles (or was it 10? can't remember LOL), and depending the vote they are assigned, different titles can get different weightages from a voter. Collaborators' votes are of higher value than the public poll (can't remember for monitor group) Etc etc. etc. too long to explain everything and I can't remember all the details . So you can see a comprehensive system is in place. Whether or not this is a fair or useful ranking system is based on the discretion of the individual but I'd say it's good for me. Sometimes people look at the individual weightages rather than the combined metric to make their new selections based on their past experiences (ie. which group does their taste coincide with etc.)

Hope some of this info is useful to you. We'll be talking about this during Nov and Dec so just keep your eyes open for that if you are interested.

Originally Posted by terribad

5th paragraph. Ah good old relativity it makes arguments so much easier; it doesn't look bad as a theory either. I really enjoy "The legend of the legendary heroes" as well despite its redundant English title. I watched the anime first and I've started with the Light Novels but I think they're incomplete. In order to avoid another Oregairu where I had to wait three - four months everyday for more, I stopped at a complete volume which is 1 or 2.

Oh, thanks for reading. My initial TL attempts were crude, though I believe I have improved a lot since then
Right now, for the sequel Daiden, it has reached 6 volumes of translation even though I had stopped working on it since volume 3 (another translator is).

Originally Posted by terribad

6th paragraph. You say the "very same date". Here I was with impression that Wataru was a punctual writer but now the opposite may be more correct. On the other hand how does he measure up against other LN writers? In fact you don't have to answer because I'm just being lazy again.

Based on my memory (may be wrong since I haven't been tracking recently),
Sneaker releases on 1st
Dengeki releases on 9th/10th
GA releases on 15th
Fujimi releases on around 20th
MF releases towards the end of the month (I think; you can infer from this that I don't read many MF books )
etc etc.
You can track it at "http://ranobe-mori.net/"

So each publisher basically has 'set release dates' for ALL their titles. Occasionally, a work may be released on an unusual date and not at the same time as other titles due to certain special reasons, but this is really rare. So, all TITLES belonging to a CERTAIN PUBLISHER and which have NEW releases all appear on the shelf on the very same day.

With regards, to punctuality and stuff, based on some of the afterwords I read, I understand (partly inferred) that authors and their editors work out their schedules for the year, and it is pretty much set in stone on what will be released and when it will be released for the entire year. Once the schedule is set, they have to meet it and deliver the scripts at particular date, unless due to serious sickness or something. The delivery date would be a number of months before the published date, and at least for Kagami Takaya, I know that the afterword is normally the last thing he does after the entire script has been edited and approved, and he usually does the afterword (in one day) one month before the release date.

With regards to how he compares, he's along with most of the authors, who release an average of 3 to 4 volumes overall a year. Prolific people like Kagami (who averages 5-6 volumes a year, excluding his manga and other side projects) and Kamachi (who averages 1 volume in 2 or less months if I'm not wrong) are not many. However, to be fair, there are many considerations to take in. 1. There are actually a number of authors who are writing part-time (especially for new or less known authors), so obviously they will be slower; 2. some authors are involved in a lot of other things aside from their light novel writing; 3. the page length of light novels and the type of content also play a part. Obviously deduction/mystery based titles will be slower. And things that need complicated research as well. But yeah, otherwise, most authors get about a volume out every 3 to 4 months. In any case, the schedule would normally be decided way in advance.

Originally Posted by terribad

I like your reaction to criticism. I would explain why but this is probably the post the size of Everest by now - okay I can't be bothered.

Finally, Economics are for those who are inside it? Where's the fun or learning in that?

Eh? There was criticism and I reacted to it? I didn't notice it.
Sorry, I just found some of the remarks mind-boggling so I was being curt. Perhaps I assume too much of people here.

[icebreaker]

I realized the last chapter's title of Volume 6 is a perfect fit for the last episode. "Finally, He and She has found the correct answer."

[terribad]

Originally Posted by larethian

Hope some of this info is useful to you. We'll be talking about this during Nov and Dec so just keep your eyes open for that if you are interested.

Is this information going to be useful you wonder? I'm just going to tell you that I'm planning to save all of it on my hard drive.

Originally Posted by larethian

Eh? There was criticism and I reacted to it? I didn't notice it.
Sorry, I just found some of the remarks mind-boggling so I was being curt. Perhaps I assume too much of people here.

I was talking to csuree there; I screwed up with the quotation syntax. Somewhat like you, I found your comments to be detailed so I need some spare time to process it all properly. However going by general impressions - seems legit.

Hmm looking at our conversation it seems the attack on titan sized posts will finally end. I'm really sorry for misquoting you on "perceived authority". I should always double check quotes - don't mind me just a little brain washing. Actually me unconsciously changing the meaning may be an example of the comment on humans having difficulty grasping uncertainty.

[terribad]

Volume 5 summary update on page 15. Since the last update, there are two extra chapters.
There's some more fuel for Shizuka fans now... and the bait is set.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by csuree

How did Hikki see through it? Maybe there were some subtle body language gestures. Or maybe he recognizes a fake smile. I read that a real smile is where the whole face smiles, and you can identify a fake one by looking at the eyes and such subtle traits.

She is to perfect that why she is fake?
(There is no such think as dream girl)

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by terribad

Volume 5 summary update on page 15. Since the last update, there are two extra chapters.
There's some more fuel for Shizuka fans now... and the bait is set.

You know what? They are perfect together. Prior this summary I still hesitated between her and Yukino, but after seing them likes this , something telling me It's real thing a that she might actualy win. Hikki promised TWICE that he would Merry her afterall.

[csuree]

Wow The Shizuka sensei - Ramen shop chapter is awesome......He clearly raised some flags there, even though it was not his intention. well she is older than him but probably by not much....I'd say 25 years old or maybe younger.
They had such a carefree chat, like good friends; The end was nice a future date after he graduates.....hmmm, with a beautiful onee-san.
Too bad this part will be most likely left out from the anime. Also the date with Yui, that is huge... I hope that one will be in the series...
So sad....Volume 5 will be cut short just like Volume 3.
In my opinion they should have gone with 24 episodes, to animate the parts that make the difference, Some volumes truly needed more episodes to be animated.

Gundamx I wathed the episode again carefully around that part....Her emotions do not seem natural one bit....her eyes betrayed her, and also that too perfect aura she was giving up

[NeutralZero]

Can that be considered as a date, Hikki and Sensei eating in a ramen store... but damn that outfit of hers looks hot...
If Hikki makes another monologue of marrying her he should just propse already... after all third time's a charm...

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Can that be considered as a date, Hikki and Sensei eating in a ramen store... but damn that outfit of hers looks hot...
If Hikki makes another monologue of marrying her he should just propse already... after all third time's a charm...

A monologue? It was just a simple tsukkomi. Most of the time he just says something along the lines of "someone please marry her".

It's not love; it's pity... coming from a guy who hates pity

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Can that be considered as a date, Hikki and Sensei eating in a ramen store... but damn that outfit of hers looks hot...
If Hikki makes another monologue of marrying her he should just propse already... after all third time's a charm...

She was attending a wedding Then her parents are forcing her with stuff like "You're next". She saw Hachiman along the way and ran away with him to a ramen store. Hence that outfit.

[terribad]

An extra chapter is added on page 15. The LN spoiler may elaborate on vol 6-7 in the future. I will find the differences to icebreaker interesting if it's done.

A question for those who've read it. Is it me or does Hikki lose his wits a little concerning Komachi? I think that even I could have reasoned my way out of that one [near the end]. Or am I just self-inserting?

[kobester11]

I thought I was reading Jerry Springer here...

So, they really rammed one volume in one episode huh?
Though, it doesn't really feels rushed.

They removed some scenes from the LN but those weren't really necessary. Like the UFO catcher scene, it's kinda out of place since they are shopping for Yui's present. And we don't really need some useless Tootsuka scene. What really didn't sync was the removal of the Dog show. Yui brought her dog for nothing and felt kinda out of place.

I don't really get what's with the last scene though. The one where Hikki looks at Yukino's book then looking melancholic through the sunset... Was it because Yukino said that they're both victims and the only one who's at fault was the one who made the accident in the first place, which is also Yukino? I don't get it >_>

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by terribad

An extra chapter is added on page 15. The LN spoiler may elaborate on vol 6-7 in the future. I will find the differences to icebreaker interesting if it's done.

A question for those who've read it. Is it me or does Hikki lose his wits a little concerning Komachi? I think that even I could have reasoned my way out of that one [near the end]. Or am I just self-inserting?

Yeah he is a siscon (read: over-protective brother) by his own admittance. He even said that siscons are abundant in Chiba.

Originally Posted by kobester11

I don't really get what's with the last scene though. The one where Hikki looks at Yukino's book then looking melancholic through the sunset... Was it because Yukino said that they're both victims and the only one who's at fault was the one who made the accident in the first place, which is also Yukino? I don't get it >_>

Although there is no way he could have figured that out, yes he realized there is something wrong about how Yukino was talking. He said "There will forever be a distance between me and her."

Spoiler for vol 6:

He finally figured out that "they're totally different" (compared to "they're similar" when they met for the first time) in Volume 6, and exactly because they're different that talking to each other would be fresh and fun. He also seemingly accepted the semantics as the excuse that she didn't lie. I think he called this the "correct answer"? (ie. this formally resolved the "There will forever be a distance between me and her." from vol 3) idk this novel is a little complicated.

[icebreaker]

I just want to get this theory out there - The main heroine does not necessarily have to get a romantic ending with the protagonist.
Yukino is undoubtedly the main heroine in this series, as most of the development are directly towards her or about her. Regardless of where Hachiman's red string of fate will take him, Yukino is still the main heroine in terms of this novel as a story.

Spoiler for Comparison:

Angel Beats had a situation where most of the development are dedicated towards Nakamura getting over her past, but the romantic ending was given to Angel. Despite that, Nakamura is still rightfully the main heroine in terms of the show being a story. As much as I want to say the same about Oreimo and Index, the ending isn't sure yet and I'll reserve my judgement till then.

[csuree]

Interesting idea....but as far as I know Yui can also be considered a main character of the series, She is like in every episode, and she has a major role in the plot too, just like Yukinon.

True what you said about the other titles.

Damn that sis-con of a Hachiman...By the way....Is Komachi a bro-con? because she's raking in points, like in a visual novel when you are on the little sister route. Very intriguing.

Also the Shizuka sensei route if we are at this "route thingy". In terms of a pseudo romantic relationship with a girl Hikki is aready way ahead of the other heroines. They already went out 2 times, they text each other frequently, Hikki complimented her a few times , and he even proposed to marry her(inside his head), and they also promised a future date after Hikki graduates. Well she looks damn hot so I would not mind her.

Just to make your day I found this.....I went lol....

Spoiler for smile:

Epic funny

[kobester11]

Originally Posted by icebreaker

I just want to get this theory out there - The main heroine does not necessarily have to get a romantic ending with the protagonist.
Yukino is undoubtedly the main heroine in this series, as most of the development are directly towards her or about her. Regardless of where Hachiman's red string of fate will take him, Yukino is still the main heroine in terms of this novel as a story.

Spoiler for Comparison:

Angel Beats had a situation where most of the development are dedicated towards Nakamura getting over her past, but the romantic ending was given to Angel. Despite that, Nakamura is still rightfully the main heroine in terms of the show being a story. As much as I want to say the same about Oreimo and Index, the ending isn't sure yet and I'll reserve my judgement till then.

Woah, that's a pretty interesting theory. But tenshi has long hair so by following the rules of anime/LN ( if such exist.) she is clearly the heroine.
That's why I'm pretty hesitant that Yui is the heroine. I know this basing is pretty bs, but it has never once failed me.

Plus, sensei also has long hair. so I'm sticking with this rule. XDD

PS: The BG ART was pretty shitty last episode... The school was detailed but when they went to the mall... It was like drawn by kindergarten for art class. Hopefully, they fix this in the BD's.

[terribad]

Originally Posted by icebreaker

Yeah he is a siscon (read: over-protective brother) by his own admittance. He even said that siscons are abundant in Chiba.

I'll remember that. Although, I think in this case it's maybe more of an example of him being submissive to or positively speaking having soft spot for his sister because he's a siscon rather than being overprotective. For the submissive argument, there's his family hierarchy in which women are first and men second in Hachiman's opinion.

I didn't know Hachiman lives in Chiba. Or are you saying Hachiman is a siscon because "it takes one to know one". I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by icebreaker

I just want to get this theory out there - The main heroine does not necessarily have to get a romantic ending with the protagonist.
Yukino is undoubtedly the main heroine in this series, as most of the development are directly towards her or about her. Regardless of where Hachiman's red string of fate will take him, Yukino is still the main heroine in terms of this novel as a story.

As above. Although mixed in with my theory is a wish for it happen. I think there's not much emotional difference between a close friendship and a romantic relationship. Concerning the differences involving the physical aspects; I can't really learn anything new from them. I feel like I've seen it all before but perhaps I just need to look at things more closely? It follows then that I would prefer the peak of their relationship to also be platonic - mutually speaking.

Although people don't misunderstand me, if the author decides to take the romantic route as long as it's reasonable in story (and maybe out of story) I will accept it without complaint. I will caste off my desires and I will destroy that screwed up illusion of mine.

[NeutralZero]

Hmm... the comparison between Angel beats... the only difference between Yuki and yuri is that there's no shipping that actually happened between them in that series while Yuki has/have some moments with Hachi... even the sister ship them together...
Sensei end or Yuki end would be nice... but in favor more of charac dev than romance dev...
In ep 6 they mentioned Yui having a low IQ when buying... but just how low is her IQ?

[icebreaker]

Originally Posted by icebreaker

He even said that siscons are abundant in Chiba.

Lol no one realized what this means. Of course there isn't an abundance of siscons in Chiba. The author is referencing to Oreimo which is set in Chiba as well.

Originally Posted by terribad

I didn't know Hachiman lives in Chiba. Or are you saying Hachiman is a siscon because "it takes one to know one". I'm not sure.

The novel heavily references to everything in Chiba. Watari Wataru received some badge from the Chiba mayor for this.

Originally Posted by csuree

Damn that sis-con of a Hachiman...By the way....Is Komachi a bro-con? because she's raking in points, like in a visual novel when you are on the little sister route.

Yes Komachi is a bro-con (read: over-reliant sister). But she also tries to pair Hachiman up with Yukino/Yui.



Hachiman, due to his past, has a rotten personality.
And there is more to Yukino's past too. I think when Haruno says "So Yukino wasn't chosen once again" (Volume 5) it refers to her wish "To succeed my father" she wrote in her primary school yearbook (Volume 6), and most likely that Haruno was chosen to succeed their father, hence her family problems - There might be more to it, but as of now that's what I think.
Yukino seems to have some dark history with Hayato too. I don't think it was simply a confession from Hayato. I don't think one confession is enough to make Yukino hate someone that much. They must have been good friends in childhood or whatnot, at least I think there is more to it.
These two characters' development out of the shadow of their past, I think, are the major spectacle of this novel. Regardless of who Hachiman ends up with, even if he ends up with no one, I think it is granted that they will somehow help each other out of their past.