Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Ranka Lee

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by herbert

Ranka is a sympathetic little thing. It's nothing wrong to be one, but not anybody wants to see a sympathetic little thing in every episode.

By the way, she is not sole survivor. If she is, that is a possibility she has murdered her family along with rest on that ill-fated ship because they don't buy her favourite cake.

Nobody knows that there was another survivor from that ship except Ranka. Nobody knows why her voice has that effect on Vajra. You're putting it a little too over the top. Sympathetic little thing? As much as Sheryl is doing her best not to be sympathized, Ranka is also doing her best not to be branded as a sympathetic little thing. Did she go emo about her memory loss? Did she ask everybody to sympathize for her pathetic state of affairs? Blame it on the writers. I am not saying Sheryl's loneliness and her need to ascertain that she is in control of the situation and being assertive about what she wants to do because of this loneliness is not as bad as Ranka's loss of memories and trying to cope with it. If so, it gives them parallel personalities, they really have their same doubts and insecurities, and are trying to work it out on the way they think is best, Sheryl being assertive and Ranka being timid and needs to be pushed. Ranka using people as crutches...I think it was already explained in the dissociative amnesia link I provided. But she really is trying her best not to become a burden to anyone, or act in some way that could not offend Alto. Sheryl does her Sheryl way with Alto, being assertive and all that, but it's these traits that seem to push Alto in some way towards Ranka, or maybe it's driving him to be unmindful of what Sheryl's true feelings for him are, because even if Sheryl shows him who the real Sheryl was, it still needs a little refinement, and we get that reaction from that kiss in episode 10. Sheryl could give anything Alto would want, but if Sheryl doesn't tidy up her act into showing Alto that she does care a lot for him, then she must stop her usual take on things and try it from a different, slightly modified approach.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Nobody knows that there was another survivor from that ship except Ranka. Nobody knows why her voice has that effect on Vajra. You're putting it a little too over the top. Sympathetic little thing? As much as Sheryl is doing her best not to be sympathized, Ranka is also doing her best not to be branded as a sympathetic little thing. Did she go emo about her memory loss? Did she ask everybody to sympathize for her pathetic state of affairs? Blame it on the writers. I am not saying Sheryl's loneliness and her need to ascertain that she is in control of the situation and being assertive about what she wants to do because of this loneliness is not as bad as Ranka's loss of memories and trying to cope with it. If so, it gives them parallel personalities, they really have their same doubts and insecurities, and are trying to work it out on the way they think is best, Sheryl being assertive and Ranka being timid and needs to be pushed. Ranka using people as crutches...I think it was already explained in the dissociative amnesia link I provided. But she really is trying her best not to become a burden to anyone, or act in some way that could not offend Alto. Sheryl does her Sheryl way with Alto, being assertive and all that, but it's these traits that seem to push Alto in some way towards Ranka, or maybe it's driving him to be unmindful of what Sheryl's true feelings for him are, because even if Sheryl shows him who the real Sheryl was, it still needs a little refinement, and we get that reaction from that kiss in episode 10. Sheryl could give anything Alto would want, but if Sheryl doesn't tidy up her act into showing Alto that she does care a lot for him, then she must stop her usual take on things and try it from a different, slightly modified approach.

Leon gathers other survivors in ep5. Best example I can provide, is the little thing in Ranka in ep8 after Sheryl arrival and before the shower.

Edit: when I refered Ranka as a sympathetic little thing, I had her attitude in mind. Yes, Ranka doesn't actively seek for sympathy, but she is always open to sympathy come to her. She is always waiting for help. She is like a little girl hidding in a dark corner, crying and thinking why there is no one come to help her.

The best example is first half of ep 8. Sheryl arrives, and Ranka is crushed. Not because Sheryl crushes Ranka, but Ranka decides Sheryl by existence would crush her so she down. You can see she is happy when Mikhail tells her that she will be heroine of the day, you can also see how low her emotion becomes when Sheryl arrives.

Big difference between Sheryl and Ranka: Sheryl fight impossibilities if she decides she needs to fight; Ranka yields before she loses. Switching places in ep8, if there is superstar Ranka and the transfer student Sheryl at school for first day, Sheryl wouldn't fade into background like Ranka does. This is what I have repeated many times already. Underdog Ranka has underdog attitude; underdog Sheryl has no underdog attitude.

As for Sheryl, I guess she needs to make up her mind about what Alto is for her. Love is really a new experience. The Sheryl we have seen in anime is a already matured Sheryl in many ways but not all ways. There has been a younger Sheryl who has asked her favourite singer why she could always sing, Alto again poses as a new mystery to her.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by herbert

Leon gathers other survivors in ep5. Best example I can provide, is the little thing in Ranka in ep8 after Sheryl arrival and before the shower.

Not to mention Ozma himself is a survivor of the 117th, having fought the Vajra back then, and feeling guilt over not having been able to save anyone.

[Westlo]

Also remember in episode 2 than in Ranka's flashback she watched a Varja destroy a ship from the view port of another ship, even without Leon's "most of us here know about the Varja because we came from that fleet" line (or something like that it's obvious she's not the only survivor.

[encia]

Originally Posted by herbert

I don't hate Ranka, to the worst I just don't like her, I'm tired of her damsel in distress like many others.
.

(Sigh) Ranka rescued Alto and group in Macross 7 style in EP12.

Originally Posted by herbert

By the way, she is not sole survivor. If she is, that is a possibility she has murdered her family along with rest on that ill-fated ship because they don't buy her favourite cake.

To quote ep 03 13:36
Ozma: I'm just an incompetent pilot who couldn't protect her family eleven years ago.

The next best thing that Ozma can do is to rescue little Ranka and flee the battle scene.

13:40 shows a flashback.

[encia]

Originally Posted by herbert

Leon gathers other survivors in ep5. Best example I can provide, is the little thing in Ranka in ep8 after Sheryl arrival and before the shower.

Edit: when I refered Ranka as a sympathetic little, I had her attitude in mind. Yes, Ranka doesn't actively seek for sympathy, but she is always open to sympathy come to her. She is always waiting for help. She is like a little girl hidding in a dark corner, crying and thinking why there is no one come to help her.

Due to her history, Ranka has mental scars. She may have been bullied in the past i.e. refer to EP04 on how she handles bullies.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by encia

(Sigh) Ranka rescued Alto and group in Macross 7 style in EP12.

I was so happy. I thought she had changed. So I am disppointed by ep13. 1 episode of shinning against 12 episodes of damsel in distress, I'm sorry, the latter is just much more impressive.

Originally Posted by encia

Due to her history, Ranka has mental scars. She may have been bullied in the past i.e. refer to EP04 on how she handles bullies.

Isn't it a strawman? I'm talking about what she is, not what makes her. As long as you admit she is what I stated, it's enough. You are free to make up another tragical past for Ranka, but you only reinforce my opinion: "Ranka is a sympathetic little thing."

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by herbert

I was so happy. I thought she had changed. So I am disppointed by ep13. 1 episode of shinning against 12 episodes of damsel in distress, I'm sorry, the latter is just much more impressive.

She has changed. Her luck hasn't. It's not her fault she keeps getting attacked.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She has changed. Her luck hasn't. It's not her fault she keeps getting attacked.

I don't want to change my opinion right now. There are a few things I am thinking.

First, Ranka's attitude to Alto. Ranka still looks up Alto a lot like he is a savor, not an immatural young boy he actually is. Maybe it's just a way to show how she is capable to be grateful, but, because of ealier impressions, I feel she yet gets rid of her low self-esteem problem.

Second, while her arrival in ep12 is great and impressive, I am still not sure if I can call it growth. Is it just an act under impulse? Would she do the same if the pilot accompanying Sheryl is Luca or Mikhail? Ranka needs to prove (to non Ranka diehard fans) what she has grown is her strength as an individual, not just her feeling for Alto.

I wonder if this will end up as a joke: Ranka has grown a lot, but her luck always prevents her from proving her growth, so she is still the damsel in distress at end of the series in many's eyes.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by herbert

I don't want to change my opinion right now. There are a few things I am thinking.

First, Ranka's attitude to Alto. Ranka still looks up Alto a lot like he is a savor, not an immatural young boy he actually is. Maybe it's just a way to show how she is capable to be grateful, but, because of ealier impressions, I feel she yet gets rid of her low self-esteem problem.

Alto is a savior (or rather, literaly a life saver) and an immature young boy. Though possibly more mature than she is. It's easy for us to call him immature, but from her perspective, it may not be so illegitimate to see him as closer to adulthood than she is.

And yes, she has yet to get rid of her low self-esteem problem. It's an ongoing process, but she's made progress.

Second, while her arrival in ep12 is great and impressive, I am still not sure if I can call it growth. Is it just an act under impulse? Would she do the same if the pilot accompanying Sheryl is Luca or Mikhail? Ranka needs to prove (to non Ranka diehard fans) what she has grown is her strength as an individual, not just her feeling for Alto.

Would she have done the same in episode 1? Or 6? Or 9? It's not just that she had the courage to jump into a firefight - though that's something, too. It's also she had the belief she could do something about it.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Alto is a savior (or rather, literaly a life saver) and an immature young boy. Though possibly more mature than she is. It's easy for us to call him immature, but from her perspective, it may not be so illegitimate to see him as closer to adulthood than she is.

And yes, she has yet to get rid of her low self-esteem problem. It's an ongoing process, but she's made progress.

What I try to say is Ranka doesn't know how to admire others. You don't just think how great they are, you need be able to acknowlegde their flaws, or it's obesession, it's worship. I can't see how you think Ranka has grown if she automatically thinks she is inferior and worships those supposed superiors.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Would she have done the same in episode 1? Or 6? Or 9?

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's not just that she had the courage to jump into a firefight - though that's something, too. It's also she had the belief she could do something about it.

I acknowlegde she shows some greatness in ep12, I just wonder if this greatness is temporary or lasting, caused by Alto-only or along with her own confidence.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by herbert

What I try to say is Ranka doesn't know how to admire others. You don't just think how great they are, you need be able to acknowlegde their flaws, or it's obesession, it's worship. I can't see how you think Ranka has grown if she automatically thinks she is inferior and worships those supposed superiors.

I don't need her to get all the way to some hypothetic finish line to say she's gone forward. Growth is a journey, not a destination.

And acknowledging that Alto is more experienced than she is isn't being delusional, but realistic. He's taken his life into his hands years before she did. Sure, compared to an actual adult, or even Sheryl or Michel, he's still got a way to go. But he is farther along than Ranka.

There's also one flaw of his that she can see (because it's so bloody obvious, granted.), and it's his own insecurity. Whatever he does, it's never enough to be the hero he wants to be. That's, I think, one reason she likes to remind him of all he's done for her.

I'm reminded of a scene in Fruits Basket, where Tohru explains that people are like rice balls, with fillings in their back. All they can see are the delicious fillings of others, and the plainness of their own bellies. That's why they need others to tell them that they, too, are delicious.

Maybe it's not healthy, that Alto and Ranka look at each other as a source of faith in themselves. (Believe in me, who believes in you...). But I'm not sure a narcissistic belief you're great, regardless of what everyone around you thinks, is healthy either. Bah, they're kids - they'll grow up still, and find their balance.

What do you mean?
I acknowlegde she shows some greatness in ep12, I just wonder if this greatness is temporary or lasting, caused by Alto-only or along with her own confidence.

I mean that the Ranka from the first episode, or from before being signed by that agent, or from before playing Mao - no matter what was on the line, she wouldn't have gone. Or, if she had, wouldn't have been able to perform like she did. She'd have lacked the courage and confidence to pull it off. Sure, the fact she did it for Alto helped. A lot. But that doesn't change the fact she did, or that it took a lot of courage, and the very belief that she could do something.

Sheryl's all "There is something to do, I can do it, I'll do it." Ranka isn't. Her first impulse is to turn to others because she doesn't believe she can do anything. But she's moving away from that - even if she's not done.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm reminded of a scene in Fruits Basket, where Tohru explains that people are like rice balls, with fillings in their back. All they can see are the delicious fillings of others, and the plainness of their own bellies. That's why they need others to tell them that they, too, are delicious.

Maybe it's not healthy, that Alto and Ranka look at each other as a source of faith in themselves. (Believe in me, who believes in you...). But I'm not sure a narcissistic belief you're great, regardless of what everyone around you thinks, is healthy either. Bah, they're kids - they'll grow up still, and find their balance.

The thing to remember, though, is that Tohru used that metaphor to communicate her inability to show Kyo his own value, even though it was readily apparent to her. She was simply pointing out that everyone has value, even if they are unable to recognize it themselves.

Tohru wasn't waiting around for a mirror to show her the filling on her own back. In spite of being homeless, and without a family, she still stands strong on her own through her sense of self-reliance (she'd sooner sleep in a tent than burden her friends) and optimism in the face of even the most trying of circumstances. Those are qualities that make both her and Sheryl such magnificent characters. Tohru became a pillar of strength in the lives of the people around her first and foremost, well before she started to draw support from anyone else. Love is a co-independent relationship, not a codependent one.

Even Kamina's "Believe in me, who believes in you!" ultimately gets twisted on itself: "Believe in you, who believes in yourself!" Throughout our lives, we meet people who inspire us to do our best. But only by moving past them and becoming our own individuals can we continue on our journey. That's the fundamental weakness of the Pygmalion-esque nature of a senpai-kohai relationship.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't need her to get all the way to some hypothetic finish line to say she's gone forward. Growth is a journey, not a destination.

And acknowledging that Alto is more experienced than she is isn't being delusional, but realistic. He's taken his life into his hands years before she did. Sure, compared to an actual adult, or even Sheryl or Michel, he's still got a way to go. But he is farther along than Ranka.

There's also one flaw of his that she can see (because it's so bloody obvious, granted.), and it's his own insecurity. Whatever he does, it's never enough to be the hero he wants to be. That's, I think, one reason she likes to remind him of all he's done for her.

I'm reminded of a scene in Fruits Basket, where Tohru explains that people are like rice balls, with fillings in their back. All they can see are the delicious fillings of others, and the plainness of their own bellies. That's why they need others to tell them that they, too, are delicious.

Maybe it's not healthy, that Alto and Ranka look at each other as a source of faith in themselves. (Believe in me, who believes in you...). But I'm not sure a narcissistic belief you're great, regardless of what everyone around you thinks, is healthy either. Bah, they're kids - they'll grow up still, and find their balance.

I know I'm somehow unfair to Ranka. But I'm not asking for a hypothetic finish line from Ranka, I'm asking for duration for her greatness. Ranka has shown greatness and saved anyone in episode, and becomes a helpless girl in next. Combined her not that good history, I can make myself believe this big progress for real.

Ranka too much reminds me a middle school girl (if not elementary school) tries to have conversation with her secret crush. She just saved Alto, but looks at their dialogue, it sounds like Alto just saved her. This makes relation is still one-sided, Ranka believes in Alto, but can Alto believe in the girl who doesn't look like believing in herself? It seems you think so, but I don't.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I mean that the Ranka from the first episode, or from before being signed by that agent, or from before playing Mao - no matter what was on the line, she wouldn't have gone. Or, if she had, wouldn't have been able to perform like she did. She'd have lacked the courage and confidence to pull it off. Sure, the fact she did it for Alto helped. A lot. But that doesn't change the fact she did, or that it took a lot of courage, and the very belief that she could do something.

Sheryl's all "There is something to do, I can do it, I'll do it." Ranka isn't. Her first impulse is to turn to others because she doesn't believe she can do anything. But she's moving away from that - even if she's not done.

Alright, if you compare Ranka now to Ranka before, yes, she has changed but do you forget what points I want to make? 1st Ranka suffers damsel in distress syndrome most of the time; 2nd Ranka behaves a sympathetic little thing most of the time.

If you also think Ranka's first impulse is to turn to others, not to give a try and see if she can do, I think it's enough reason for me to call her in the two.

I'm not here to deny any progress Ranka has made, not enough, that is the point.

[cheesie]

There are more and more indications that Ranka will be the one to rise to Macross idol fame (not just the Frontier series). Meaning she'll be the one embarking down the road Mylene and Minmei once walked and join them in legendary status.

Sheryl's comments about her is one of the strong indicators:

Title: Enough to make me shiver,

She talks about a singer from the 18th Macross fleet that went to Galaxy three years earlier. They did a musical program together and Sheryl has no interest in other artists, but she became interested in this woman. She first saw the singer in a magazine and could not forget her face as she stared straight at the camera. That's why she went to a musical that the woman performed in even though she doesn't like musicals. She always wants to shout "Why are you singing over there?" and actually did so once from the audience, thus arousing the anger of her manager. This musical, though, was wonderful, especially the singer's voice. She has never seen anyone who seemed to have a breeze blowing from their bodies before. And if there were more like this singer, it would troublesome for her. She met someone else like this though. This girl was adorable and had very direct eyes. When she met this girl it was as if a wind were blowing across her face. From the look in her eyes, the girl was definitely the perpetrator.

And in every one of Ranka's illustrations, she's always holding the signature microphone.

Ranka looks like she's steadily rising to fame.

[zalem]

Feh...Mylene. Basara was always the one who shined in M7 not Mylene. She was a backup singer compared to him. I'm not saying that to be mean, she was cute and all and I actually liked her. But she was overshadowed by him throughout that series. When I think of M7, I think of Basara not Mylene.

Though I do know the MF manga says she is supposed to have one of the most beautiful voices in the galaxy or something like that....I suppose Ranka will be thought of like that eventually.

[lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by zalem

Feh...Mylene. Basara was always the one who shined in M7 not Mylene. She was a backup singer compared to him. I'm not saying that to be mean, she was cute and all and I actually liked her. But she was overshadowed by him throughout that series. When I think of M7, I think of Basara not Mylene.

Though I do know the MF manga says she is supposed to have one of the most beautiful voices in the galaxy or something like that....I suppose Ranka will be thought of like that eventually.

Hmmm...makes me wonder if Mylene's sister Emilia ever achieved anything close to that as well.

Emilia had a powerful set of vocals herself.


--Lone Wolf

[Tak]

I just cannot agree with the statement that supposedly "Mylene had the most beautiful voice in the galaxy".

I don't know, I don't know... Emilia was ... better. And it only took her ONE episode to prove it.

- Tak

[stray]

Check out "Gift 25," the Mylene tribute by Chie Kajiura... goth Mylene FTW.

[zalem]

Emilia's voice was 100x better. A lot more powerful imho. Mylene's voice is cute, but it's got nothing on Emilia.