Rwby

[Harry Dresden]

Both Sun and Adam deny and ignore her agency. Its on different levels sure as one is abusive psychopath while other is not, but that doe snot mean that Blake does not deserve to fight back in both cases. There are more ways a person can restrict agency than just violence.

That kind of victim blaming is just silly. Sun absolutely deserved those slaps here. In fact Blake has been 200% more patient than majority of female population in our world would be in situation like that.

[Lord C]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Both Sun and Adam deny and ignore her agency. Its on different levels sure as one is abusive psychopath while other is not, but that doe snot mean that Blake does not deserve to fight back in both cases. There are more ways a person can restrict agency than just violence.

That kind of victim blaming is just silly. Sun absolutely deserved those slaps here. In fact Blake has been 200% more patient than majority of female population in our world would be in situation like that.

No, he didn't. He did nothing to deserve physical assault and Blake's overreaction was inexcusable.

You can compare him to whoever you want, and hate him irrationally as much as you like and do, but Blake didn't have any right to do what she did to him.

[Tenzen12]

Come on! Sun is male, of course he deserves the worst of worst. This is sweet Yuri show and and annoying guys who stand in way of lesbian relationships should just die by terrible and painful way. How could you think anything else?

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by Lord C

No, he didn't. He did nothing to deserve physical assault and Blake's overreaction was inexcusable.

You can compare him to whoever you want, and hate him irrationally as much as you like and do, but Blake didn't have any right to do what she did to him.

Sun continuously denies Blake her agency. Sun stalked her for THREE MONTHS. Sun is continuously disrespectful to her. Sun invited himself into the journey. Sun invited himself into HER HOUSE. Sun now disrespects her privacy. In fact he literally displayed almost all possible stalker behavior profile traits. I feel like I am repeating myself.

There's no irrational hate against Sun. There's irrational defense based on nothing but fact that he is pretty, white and male. As I said before that kind of behavior was already seen before with both Jacques and Whitley and it just shows how skewed gender perception is in our world when male characters are "defended" and "protected" despite their behavior. Especially the "Mr Nice Guy" male characters that is. Because female characters get condemned on a single line, but male characters, oh no no no, as long as they had "good motives" or "are really nice" they get defended to hell and back. Its not limited to this show or this fandom actually, it happens all over the media.

Blake had all the rights to do what she did considering what Sun pulled so far. In fact if this was the real world, A slap would be LEAST of Sun's worries as he would have a restraining order coming up his ass and several harassment charges. And against any actually prepared woman, he would at least get tased.

The only thing this does is show that Blake is finally growing up. She is not the same oblivious naive girl who fell for handsome Men wanting to "protect her". She is actually starting to see Sun's negative and problematic sides and unlike with Adam she is not having any of it. And in this case she is actually standing UP for her RIGHTS and agency and personal space. I am actually quite proud on her progression despite the questionable alterations to her backstory. After all, Blake's story is all about an abuse victim fighting to regain her agency. If this is well written, the stuff with making Sun realize his boundaries is a stepping stone leading to her eventually be able to stand up against Adam and be comfortable with herself, having escaped her shackles.

[Lord C]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Sun continuously denies Blake her agency. Sun stalked her for THREE MONTHS. Sun is continuously disrespectful to her. Sun invited himself into the journey. Sun invited himself into HER HOUSE. Sun now disrespects her privacy. I feel like I am repeating myself.

There's no irrational hate against Sun. There's irrational defense based on nothing but fact that he is pretty, white and male. As I said before that kind of behavior was already seen before with both Jacques and Whitley and it just shows how skewed gender perception is in our world when male characters are "defended" and "protected" despite their behavior. Especially the "Mr Nice Guy" male characters that is.

Blake had all the rights to do what she did considering what Sun pulled so far. In fact if this was the real world, A slap would be LEAST of Sun's worries as he would have a restraining order coming up his ass and several harassment charges.

The only thing this does is show that Blake is finally growing up. She is not the same oblivious naive girl who fell for handsome Men wanting to "protect her". She is actually starting to see Sun's negative and problematic sides and unlike with Adam she is not having any of it. And in this case she is actually standing UP for her RIGHTS and agency and personal space. I am actually quite proud on her progression despite the questionable alterations to her backstory.

Alright, let us put it like this:

Somewhere in this world, there is a community. It exists for discussions about shows, video games, stuff like that.

Suddenly, a random person arrives in this community. This person is annoying, only appears there to vent, whine and complain. This person keeps doing that for weeks and weeks, annoying all other users and can't get any hints no matter how long it passes, doesn't realize how self-centered, childish, hot-headed that person is. That person denies everyone else of their opinions without even considering it. No, he is always right and everyone disagrees in wrong, and he nevers contributes to the discussion of the show. Also, anything triggers that person on a personal level.

Would this person deserve two consecutive slaps on the face to shut up for once and leave everyone else in that community in peace?

[bakato]

Where are the faunus in this creation myth?

[Harry Dresden]

I always find it funny when people resort to argumentum ad populum when in a debate.

Community is not a hive-mind. Community does not have to always view the show positively. Trying to paint a single person as "wrong" or as "only one" having that opinion just makes no sense. There's plenty of people, both queer and not, dissatisfied with RWBY's problematic aspects. Plenty of discussion on tumblr about the issues the show has. Its not an echo chamber.

Why try to silence the actual discussion or try to paint others in negative light just because you disagree with the topic? There's no predefined way people HAVE to feel about the show. Just because people find certain aspect problematic does not mean they "hate" the show. No show is perfect, no show is worth only praise. You don't have to absolutely unconditionally love every single aspect of a show to be a "fan".

Trying to demonize or attack others serves no purpose in a proper discussion. People who disagree with you are not necessarily "new"(I personally have been with the show since the first trailer), nor are they some evil force intent on destroying everything you like.

Frankly that smells of toxicity and homophobia that problematic people or "famous" youtubers like JAC One Man Band tried to spew(I'll forever remember that Dude's gem of how Blake and Yang being queer would "ruin their characters"). Its not constructive in anyway.

[Lord C]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

I always find it funny when people resort to argumentum ad populum when in a debate.

Community is not a hive-mind. Community does not have to always view the show positively. Trying to paint a single person as "wrong" or as "only one" having that opinion just makes no sense. There's plenty of people, both queer and not, dissatisfied with RWBY's problematic aspects. Plenty of discussion on tumblr about the issues the show has. Its not an echo chamber.

Why try to silence the actual discussion or try to paint others in negative light just because you disagree with the topic? There's no predefined way people HAVE to feel about the show. Just because people find certain aspect problematic does not mean they "hate" the show. No show is perfect, no show is worth only praise.

Trying to demonize or attack others serves no purpose in a proper discussion. People who disagree with you are not necessarily "new"(I personally have been with the show since the first trailer), nor are they some evil force intent on destroying everything you like.

And I always find funny how extremists can be such hypocrites, Mr. Nice Male Guy.

[RDNexus]

When you, Dresden, spend more time criticizing a story rather than simply enjoy what it has to give, how do you expect us to see you in a different light?

[Tenzen12]

Yeah, it's hardly look like you come here for any other reason than complain. It doesn't help that you always sound biased in particular direction...

[Tormenk]

Sun's willing to call BS on whoever he encounters, Faunus or not. And he has the every so slightly positive trait of respecting the right of others' lives by not slaughtering them as he deem fits. So yeah, I think there's a tiny tiny distinction between him and Adam on that basic level.

And I have to give it to Lord C for his funny analogy. May you be the Sun to the Adams out there everywhere.

[MeoTwister5]

As I said before this is the type of argument I typically associate with tumblr not Animesuki.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

I always find it funny when people resort to argumentum ad populum when in a debate.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Community is not a hive-mind. Community does not have to always view the show positively. Trying to paint a single person as "wrong" or as "only one" having that opinion just makes no sense. There's plenty of people, both queer and not, dissatisfied with RWBY's problematic aspects. Plenty of discussion on tumblr about the issues the show has. Its not an echo chamber.

A community refers to a group gathered together for a similar purpose. Said purpose in the case of this thread is to talk about RWBY as a whole and celebrate a show we enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion, and certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing with the opinion of others, majority or not. But you aren't stating an opinion. You're complaining. And again, that in and of itself is not a problem, doing so every single episode and constantly ranting in between about how RT is ruining Blake and Yang because their relationship didn't play out like you thought.

What really has people riled, though, is the way you do it. You drag in rhteoric and slogans ripped straight from tumblr and rant about the show like its some kind of reflection of actual social issues. And whenever someone simply mentions disagreeing with you about how they interpret the interactions of Blake and Sun, you start lecturing everyone about why Sun is just as bad as the guy who burned Beacon to the ground and cut off Yang's arm.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Why try to silence the actual discussion or try to paint others in negative light just because you disagree with the topic? There's no predefined way people HAVE to feel about the show. Just because people find certain aspect problematic does not mean they "hate" the show. No show is perfect, no show is worth only praise. You don't have to absolutely unconditionally love every single aspect of a show to be a "fan".

No, but you do generally have to like at least part of it. Or at least acknowledge that their are other parts besides the fact that your apparent preferred OTP isn't working out.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Trying to demonize or attack others serves no purpose in a proper discussion. People who disagree with you are not necessarily "new"(I personally have been with the show since the first trailer), nor are they some evil force intent on destroying everything you like.

And people who disagree with you aren't being mysogynistic. You pulled out the buzz words first. Regardless of how you meant it, those will always trigger a rejection response.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Frankly that smells of toxicity and homophobia that problematic people or "famous" youtubers like JAC One Man Band tried to spew(I'll forever remember that Dude's gem of how Blake and Yang being queer would "ruin their characters"). Its not constructive in anyway.

Like you were ranting about how not being gay would ruin their characters?

[Twi]

I quite frankly don't care where on the pendulum the characters swing. I just like the story and plot more than anything. And from my point of view, whether Sun was rocking an XX instead of XY, Blake is the one crossing the line here.

It ain't about Gender. It ain't about romance. It's about the fact that she finds the solution to her problem being to give someone The Slap when she used to be the one playing peace-keeper of the group.

[Harry Dresden]

Originally Posted by XFire

A community refers to a group gathered together for a similar purpose. Said purpose in the case of this thread is to talk about RWBY as a whole and celebrate a show we enjoy

Sorry, but a community is a group of people sharing similar interest. In this case RWBY.
Nothing in the definition of the term talks about opinion censorship.

A community does not have to "celebrate" a show.

There is nothing wrong with stating your opinion, and certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing with the opinion of others, majority or not. But you aren't stating an opinion. You're complaining. And again, that in and of itself is not a problem, doing so every single episode and constantly ranting in between about how RT is ruining Blake and Yang because their relationship didn't play out like you thought.

Perception bias. I stated nothing that you just stated.

What really has people riled, though, is the way you do it. You drag in rhteoric and slogans ripped straight from tumblr

The fact that you think basic social and psychological terminology is "ripped off from tumblr" is funny.

and rant about the show like its some kind of reflection of actual social issues.

It is.
Its a narrative. By the very fact of it being a narrative, it exist to make a statement.
Not to mention Its written by real people and thus It reflects their opinion.

And whenever someone simply mentions disagreeing with you about how they interpret the interactions of Blake and Sun, you start lecturing everyone about why Sun is just as bad as the guy who burned Beacon to the ground and cut off Yang's arm.

Perception bias. I have not stated anything you just wrote.
Also perceiving a proccess of debate as "lecturing" seems weird.

No, but you do generally have to like at least part of it. Or at least acknowledge that their are other parts besides the fact that your apparent preferred OTP isn't working out.

Yet again what you have written here has absolutely nothing to do with my argumentation. "lolships" is very easy way to try to trivialize an argument, but that requires ignoring actual argumentation.

And people who disagree with you aren't being mysogynistic.

Perception bias. Nothing I said implies that.

People who are negatively biased against female characters being misogynistic is not a question of opinion. Its literally the definition of what a misogyny is and that does not even refer to specific people here or anywhere. Its a common tone certain portions of fanbase take towards Blake in this situation.

Tts actually terrifying that one has to DEFEND a female fighting back to take back her agency nowadays. I guess even age old iconic female empowerment scenes like this one would be interpreted as "abusive" by those people?

You pulled out the buzz words first.

If you GENUINELY believe misogyny and sexism are "buzzwords then

Like you were ranting about how not being gay would ruin their characters?

False equivalency mixed with perception bias.

Not only I never said anything like that, but also both cases have entirely different situations.

A character sexuality by all means means nothing in terms of characterization. How characters respond to surroundings does tho. The fact that Blake and Yang's angsty ending of Volume 3 is not even mentioned upon or dealt with yet IS a characterization problem, but that would be the same problem if one of them was male.

Rooster Teeth is not "baiting" characters being straight. They are teasing and baiting a possibility of queer pairing(And don't give me "oh they did not do that you imagined it" nonsense - the narrative intent with yang and blake is obvious and the showrunners ADMITTED baiting ruby and weiss with scenes in volume 2). Hell, everything in Volume 3 pretty much led to people assuming they are already canon at that point, because majority of second half of it pretty much erased any possibility of the pairing being interpreted as non-romantic.

People being angry and confused at constant baiting are justified. LGBT community deserves to be treated better. Right now we are still in proccess of fighting for RIGHT to exist, to be represented(instead of lgbt characters being fridged like it is common in media). Intentionally gaslighting the gays into thinking the pairing will be possible only to pretend it never happened is abhorrent marketing technique.

A kneejerk reaction of a straight youtuber spilling vitriol towards LGBT community is absolutely not justified however. All that JAC did was demonize and shame LGBT community for asking about the representation they have been teased with for years. For not being heteronormative and daring to treat the romantic interactions the same way whether it is two people of different genders or two people of same gender.

Originally Posted by Twi

I quite frankly don't care where on the pendulum the characters swing. I just like the story and plot more than anything. And from my point of view, whether Sun was rocking an XX instead of XY, Blake is the one crossing the line here.

It ain't about Gender. It ain't about romance. It's about the fact that she finds the solution to her problem being to give someone The Slap when she used to be the one playing peace-keeper of the group.

What should she have done then?
She explained why Sun was wrong all the way back in the boat. He learned NOTHING form that. If anything he keeps invading her privacy by having invited himself into her home and eavesdropping on her and her father holding a private family conversation. Not the first time really considering this is the guy who randomly hangs outside people's windows listening in on their conversations, as per Volume 2.

If anything this shows her being aware of the implications of his actions and is grown up enough to understand what his actions mean and to not be charmed by his "knightly rogue" personality. Its character growth and its damn nice to see Blake who takes no shit from others who try to limit her or take away her agency.

Its actually nice parallel to Weiss rejecting the Neptune-clone-guy. Both of them are growing past their childhood naivety and are actually being able to see and perceive the very real problems surrounding them.

And what else could she do? As I said, in real world if random dude a woman never wanted to be there ends up breaking her privacy, big chance he is getting tazed or police called on him. In remnant's world that would most likely translate to getting balls kicked in and getting shot at and yet Blake was EXCEEDINGLY restrained only resorting to simple slaps to prove out a point as simple words did not work. She is surprisingly patient with Sun's behavior .

Also she never was a peace keeper of the group. That was always Weiss.

[Tenzen12]

HiI really wonder how can someone write huge wall of text and completely waste that space by filling it self-righteous yet empty phrases and pure misandry.

Anyway by this point most of us here (if I am allowed make such observation) know your opinions much better than is desired. and it can be hardly threated as anything but spam.

Oh and Blake is alright with Sun being there in general and she did invite him to her house. You shouldn't project own feelings on her.

[MeoTwister5]

Genuine valid criticism of a member of the opposite or non-denominational gender/sex is not equal to mysogyny as extremist feminism and extremist LGBT groups would like you to believe. A man has all the right to criticize a woman and vice verse all things being equal, as well as those in between criticizing everyone else.

To insist otherwise is pure hypocrisy. The ability to find imaginative and perceived biases and in everything in a work of fiction as having some sort of hidden mysogynistic agenda is just... does the English language have a word for it?

Mysogyny is a multiway street. It is not the exclusive possession of feminist and LGBT groups. One can be a mysogynist in treating men and straight people believe it or not.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Sorry, but a community is a group of people sharing similar interest. In this case RWBY.
Nothing in the definition of the term talks about opinion censorship.

A community does not have to "celebrate" a show.

Keep rolling that victim complex. No one cares what opinion you have. We just want you to stop screaming about the fact that your ship sank.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Perception bias. I stated nothing that you just stated.

Bull shit.

Every episode you came out with a bulleted lists of points in how either Yang or Blake were being handled poorly followed by a rant disguised as "begging" RT to realize what they were writing. Because obviously your headcannon was the only appropriate path forward.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

The fact that you think basic social and psychological terminology is "ripped off from tumblr" is funny.

You think using that terminology here in some desperate attempt to lend yourself legitimacy is any different from the thousands of tumblr crusaders who do the same thing to no effect is "funny"

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

It is.
Its a narrative. By the very fact of it being a narrative, it exist to make a statement.
Not to mention Its written by real people and thus It reflects their opinion.

It exists to entertain, which should have been obvious when the giant scythe turned into a sniper rifle.

It isn't some SJW rant on female agency. Blake's situation, however its resolved, is an outgrowth of her own issues and circumstances as a character and not some kind of parallel to real world issues.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Perception bias. I have not stated anything you just wrote.
Also perceiving a process of debate as "lecturing" seems weird.

You said that Sun, who is at worst misguided, was the same as Adam, a psychotic mass murderer who is directly responsible for Blake's issues.

And when you were called on that you started up your info dump on female agency, because apparently the magic super ninja is somehow threatened by the weaker and less competent male following her around.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Yet again what you have written here has absolutely nothing to do with my argumentation. "lolships" is very easy way to try to trivialize an argument, but that requires ignoring actual argumentation.

You don't have an argument. You have a tantrum because RT isn't playing to your fantasies.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

Perception bias. Nothing I said implies that.

People who are negatively biased against female characters being misogynistic is not a question of opinion. Its literally the definition of what a misogyny is and that does not even refer to specific people here or anywhere. Its a common tone certain portions of fanbase take towards Blake in this situation.

Its actually terrifying that one has to DEFEND a female fighting back to take back her agency nowadays. I guess even age old iconic female empowerment scenes like this one would be interpreted as "abusive" by those people?

Disagreeing with a characters actions when said character happens to be female is not misogyny. It's not liking that character. Otherwise the same tone would carry over to every female character involved in the show as opposed to just her.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

If you GENUINELY believe misogyny and sexism are "buzzwords then

I genuinely believe that wannabe crusaders and SJW's have reduced them to that, yes.

Originally Posted by Harry Dresden

False equivalency mixed with perception bias.

Not only I never said anything like that, but also both cases have entirely different situations.

A character sexuality by all means means nothing in terms of characterization. How characters respond to surroundings does tho. The fact that Blake and Yang's angsty ending of Volume 3 is not even mentioned upon or dealt with yet IS a characterization problem, but that would be the same problem if one of them was male.

Rooster Teeth is not "baiting" characters being straight. They are teasing and baiting a possibility of queer pairing(And don't give me "oh they did not do that you imagined it" nonsense - the narrative intent with yang and blake is obvious and the showrunners ADMITTED baiting ruby and weiss with scenes in volume 2). Hell, everything in Volume 3 pretty much led to people assuming they are already canon at that point, because majority of second half of it pretty much erased any possibility of the pairing being interpreted as non-romantic.

People being angry and confused at constant baiting are justified. LGBT community deserves to be treated better. Right now we are still in proccess of fighting for RIGHT to exist, to be represented(instead of lgbt characters being fridged like it is common in media). Intentionally gaslighting the gays into thinking the pairing will be possible only to pretend it never happened is abhorrent marketing technique.

A kneejerk reaction of a straight youtuber spilling vitriol towards LGBT community is absolutely not justified however. All that JAC did was demonize and shame LGBT community for asking about the representation they have been teased with for years. For not being heteronormative and daring to treat the romantic interactions the same way whether it is two people of different genders or two people of same gender

And now we're back to your victim complex. Do you really believe that RT spent three seasons teasing a relationship for the express purpose of yanking the LGBT fans' chain? This isn't some kind of attempt to marginalize anyone. It's a couple of literary characters being taken in a direction different from what you wanted. Nothing more.

[RDNexus]

Given that RT intends to have this story take quite the few seasons to reach a conclusion, I think this whole mess of a discussion could have been saved for one or two seasons after this one, when the whole group is back together and we can see better what their path (together or separated) actually may seem to be.

[Lhklan]

Is this a bad time? Cause I just want to say I loved Qrow's fight in Ep 7. Yes, late I know, but I was busy and I'm not a sponsor/helper on RT site.

THough, his Semblance sucks. Bringing bad luck to people around you sounds like cause for being drunk almost all the time.