(L) Hai to Gensou to Grimmgal

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

no he wasn't. he stops for two seconds to brag before becoming the joke of the room but he was no louder than them. obnoxious sure

He always speaks loudly.

he's toxic in conversation but pulls his own weight.

His conversation is "merely" irritating. Bigger problem: he's shown himself to be an unrepentant sex offender. To his own team mates.

something neither of the moe blobs have going for them. the first episode shows that the boys rotate the breakfast duties.

Why would you think there are only boys in the rotation?

so telling shihoru that it makes no sense to have him meditate while he's bleeding out isn't common sense? to quote you, that's hilarious. he did something right to help the situation, she didn't. the result doesn't change that.

I'm saying it didn't arise from any kind of actual thought, but just impatience. And pulling the arrow out may well be what's killed Manato. If it'd hit anything important, he wouldn't even have made it that far.

not as hilarious as missing at point blank range and being a stuttering moron when the going gets tough

You're changing the subject. And I'll point out the first episodes showed how he flounders before the going even gets tough.

My point was, he is in no way "focused on the mission". He wasn't any more vigilant than the others. He just told Yume to shut it because the attention wasn't on him.

it was said in the episode that the demon can do that

He says a lot of shit. A lot of it patently false.

[FlareKnight]

Now that I think about it....would actually be pretty sad if pulling out the arrow is what finished Manato. Possible that he simply passed out from the level of blood loss and the time and effort spent trying to save him....finished him off. Well at least they probably won't ever think about that, so it won't hit them with even more guilt.

Wouldn't be surprising though. They have subconscious memories of things like CPR, but obviously not so much experience in treating life-threatening injuries. That was Manato's position and even then he was using magic, not actually patching up wounds by hand.

In terms of usefulness/weaknesses, everyone has some of each. I think Shihoru was in a bad spot before she did learn some new spells since her basic attack wasn't all that strong. Think her choice for magic was a reasonable one. Less risk of hurting her allies compared to say learning a fire ball spell . With so many up close fighters something that just sets up for the kill is a solid move.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Wouldn't be surprising though. They have subconscious memories of things like CPR, but obviously not so much experience in treating life-threatening injuries. That was Manato's position and even then he was using magic, not actually patching up wounds by hand.

Hollywood CPR and first aid. Which treats bullets as something that must be extracted, soonest, instead of just doing whatever you can to minimize blood loss until you get to someone who knows what they're doing.

(I don't blame them. They're laymen, they had no time, and it's very possible nothing they could have done would have saved Manato.)

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Hollywood CPR and first aid. Which treats bullets as something that must be extracted, soonest, instead of just doing whatever you can to minimize blood loss until you get to someone who knows what they're doing.

(I don't blame them. They're laymen, they had no time, and it's very possible nothing they could have done would have saved Manato.)

Yeah....what would come to mind for those kids probably would be just stuff they saw in movies or a health class.

Actually kind of scary when you think about it. They have all this subconscious knowledge, but not the practical information that could let them know whether it's useful or useless.

Not that it necessarily would have changed the outcome. Their friend and comrade was dying before their eyes. Might have already been gone. Trying anything and everything while in a panic would make sense.

Considering how far they'd have to carry him to get treatment...yeah maybe nothing would have helped change the outcome.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

He always speaks loudly.


His conversation is "merely" irritating. Bigger problem: he's shown himself to be an unrepentant sex offender. To his own team mates.


Why would you think there are only boys in the rotation?


I'm saying it didn't arise from any kind of actual thought, but just impatience. And pulling the arrow out may well be what's killed Manato. If it'd hit anything important, he wouldn't even have made it that far.


You're changing the subject. And I'll point out the first episodes showed how he flounders before the going even gets tough.

My point was, he is in no way "focused on the mission". He wasn't any more vigilant than the others. He just told Yume to shut it because the attention wasn't on him.


He says a lot of shit. A lot of it patently false.

no he doesn't.

funny thing about that: blame the anime for completly changing the context of that scene.

Spoiler for ln spoiler:

the other boys are accomplices so he's no worse for being honest about it.

quick thinking and impatience are two different things. not wasting time when a guy is bleeding out hardly qualifies as being impatient. and you think haruhiro and ranta would pull it out if it actually hit any vitals? he got hit long before they noticed the arrow, if it hit any vitals he would have been dead on the spot or at the very least immobile. unless you think you can run with an arrow in your chest cavity or lungs.

being over-anxious =/= being unfocused. the main objective is killing the goblin. was he focused on the method of stealth? no. did he make some slip ups sure? sure. but did he lose focus of the overall objective? no.

your fighting a goblin 1v1 while the rest of the group is standing there with no thumbs, the same goblin that was just on top of and stabbed one of them, and you're the only one with the sense to get said goblin off said person, yet you're not more attentive? can you be any more biased? if yume's not going to help kill the thing then she should shut up because telling the only one fighting that damn thing at the moment that he's scared too is entirely useless at best and straight up retarded at worst. at least he is doing something about it.

strawman is strawman

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

no he doesn't.

funny thing about that: blame the anime for completly changing the context of that scene.

Spoiler for ln spoiler:

the other boys are accomplices so he's no worse for being honest about it.

The others have the decency to be contrite. He doesn't.

quick thinking and impatience are two different things. not wasting time when a guy is bleeding out hardly qualifies as being impatient. and you think haruhiro and ranta would pull it out if it actually hit any vitals?

Yes. They're not trained medical professional, they're panicking children.

he got hit long before they noticed the arrow, if it hit any vitals he would have been dead on the spot or at the very least immobile. unless you think you can run with an arrow in your chest cavity or lungs.

Which was my point: it didn't hit anything bad going in. Pulling it out, OTOH, would make more damage, including a risk of tearing a major blood vessel.

So, admittedly, would moving him with the arrow still in.

And not moving would be gambling on him waking up and being able to help himself after some rest, and the goblins not attacking in the mean time.

Which goes back to my statement that there may have been nothing they could do.

being over-anxious =/= being unfocused. the main objective is killing the goblin. was he focused on the method of stealth? no. did he make some slip ups sure? sure. but did he lose focus of the overall objective? no.

your fighting a goblin 1v1 while the rest of the group is standing there with no thumbs, the same goblin that was just on top of and stabbed one of them, and you're the only one with the sense to get said goblin off said person, yet you're not more attentive? can you be any more biased? if yume's not going to help kill the thing then she should shut up because telling the only one fighting that damn thing at the moment that he's scared too is entirely useless at best and straight up retarded at worst. at least he is doing something about it.

strawman is strawman

I don't even know what act of pseudo heroism you're talking about.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The others have the decency to be contrite. He doesn't.
classic selective bias. it's okay to peep as long as you're feeling guilty about it lol

Yes. They're not trained medical professional, they're panicking children.

they're not completely untrained noobies anymore, the montage emphasized that. to think their training guilds didn't at least teach them basic first aid is nonsense in this setting


Which was my point: it didn't hit anything bad going in. Pulling it out, OTOH, would make more damage, including a risk of tearing a major blood vessel.

So, admittedly, would moving him with the arrow still in.

And not moving would be gambling on him waking up and being able to help himself after some rest, and the goblins not attacking in the mean time.

Which goes back to my statement that there may have been nothing they could do.

read your sentence again; if it didn't hit anything vital, pulling it out wouldn't yield such disastrous results, especially when they already know not to yank it out to cause further damage, see episode 2 again. manato died because A. he got hit but couldn't stop to tend to it so he lost major amounts of blood. B. couldn't heal himself and by extension seal the wound C. received medical attention to late.

is it true that the efforts of ranta and haruhiro were futille? yes, but that doesn't invalidate that they handled the situation in the best possible way at the time.



I don't even know what act of pseudo heroism you're talking about.
of course you dont when you have run out of straws to grasp. right after haruhiro stabs the goblin in the neck in episode 2, ranta is the one to get the goblin off of him by stabbing it, while the rest of the group collectively stands there until moguzo also realizes that "hey let's try flanking with numbers"

at the bolds

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

The others have the decency to be contrite. He doesn't.
classic selective bias. it's okay to peep as long as you're feeling guilty about it lol

No, but it's an indication they won't do it again and may be deserving of forgiveness. As Yume tried to tell Haruhiro.

Yes. They're not trained medical professional, they're panicking children.

they're not completely untrained noobies anymore, the montage emphasized that. to think their training guilds didn't at least teach them basic first aid is nonsense in this setting

There hasn't been much time, and they pay through the nose for every bit of technique they learn. In a world where "have a priest pray over it" is probably the best way to deal with any injury anyway.

And extracting an arrow is less first aid and more surgery.

Which was my point: it didn't hit anything bad going in. Pulling it out, OTOH, would make more damage, including a risk of tearing a major blood vessel.

So, admittedly, would moving him with the arrow still in.

And not moving would be gambling on him waking up and being able to help himself after some rest, and the goblins not attacking in the mean time.

Which goes back to my statement that there may have been nothing they could do.

read your sentence again; if it didn't hit anything vital, pulling it out wouldn't yield such disastrous results, especially when they already know not to yank it out to cause further damage, see episode 2 again.

That would depend on how close it came to major blood vessel, and how steady their hands are. Even if it doesn't, pulling the arrow out can only enlarge the wound and cause more blood to gush forth. A wound which they can't close properly.

manato died because A. he got hit but couldn't stop to tend to it so he lost major amounts of blood. B. couldn't heal himself and by extension seal the wound C. received medical attention to late.

is it true that the efforts of ranta and haruhiro were futille? yes, but that doesn't invalidate that they handled the situation in the best possible way at the time.

Best would probably have been to bandage around the arrow and improvise a stretcher.

I don't even know what act of pseudo heroism you're talking about.
of course you dont when you have run out of straws to grasp. right after haruhiro stabs the goblin in the neck in episode 2, ranta is the one to get the goblin off of him by stabbing it, while the rest of the group collectively stands there until moguzo also realizes that "hey let's try flanking with numbers"

Oh, that. So he was faster off the mark one time in combat. Faster than Moguzo, anyway, who's the only other whose job it was to tackle the goblin in close combat. Remember why Haru was in that pinch in the first place? Whose fault it was?

[Selphia]

Is there any official word on which RPG system Grimgar draws from? Seems to be low magic D&D, which would explain a few things.

In D&D, the healer class is a frontliner who can wear heavy armor and a shield. If there was anything to fault, it'd be that Manato didn't learn blessings to make his party less bad, and spent his capa on someone else.

Rangers could choose to specialize in dual wielding instead of archery too. Yume should have just picked up a second kukri. Seems like what Diagonal Cut was designed for in fact, since it's two hits. Or maybe she had to learn the dual wielding skill first.

Ranta should be the tank though. He's eager to jump in, makes a lot of noise and likes to draw attention to himself. Perfect tank. Someone should just shove a shield at him. Wonder why no one thought of that.

[Pen3]

kidstandout i think you play too much video game... even soldiers panic in real life and these guys aren't professional. You have to remember that your RPG video games don't have friendly fire. Did you expect 2-3 people to run in with swords slashing and stabbing while somebody is wrestling a monster? What if Haru or the goblin flips each other over and somebody else gets stabbed? Or the sword over penetrates and stabs Haru? It is almost like a free-for-all type of party as i see it.

I am not saying nobody should go help, but they need to do it in an orderly fashion and Manato as the leader should've gave Ranta commands to assist Haru in that situation. I understand that they don't have a professional teacher that has everyone train together, everyone is out training on their own in their own guilds. Manato is a bad leader that is all.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Selphia

Is there any official word on which RPG system Grimgar draws from? Seems to be low magic D&D, which would explain a few things.

In D&D, the healer class is a frontliner who can wear heavy armor and a shield. If there was anything to fault, it'd be that Manato didn't learn blessings to make his party less bad, and spent his capa on someone else.

Rangers could choose to specialize in dual wielding instead of archery too. Yume should have just picked up a second kukri. Seems like what Diagonal Cut was designed for in fact, since it's two hits. Or maybe she had to learn the dual wielding skill first.

Ranta should be the tank though. He's eager to jump in, makes a lot of noise and likes to draw attention to himself. Perfect tank. Someone should just shove a shield at him. Wonder why no one thought of that.

Thank you for mentioning D&D. That Yume was intended to be a stand in for Ranger class could explain her dreams about her wolf deity. Ranger do get a high affinity with Nature, and some eventually get an animal companion.

[Benigmatica]

Episode 4:
I was late in the party, but damn... It's sucks that Manato bit the dust by being shot in the back! I wonder if that arrow head has poison in it?

It's unfortunately that Haruhiro's party lost a member as Manato's body turned into ash. At least they won't forced to fight a zombified party member.

[Harbinger]

They actually got ambushed and someone did die

I don't want to sound mean, but I do hope that he's not the only one to die. It would keep everyone (viewers) on edge. This anime is getting more and more interesting!

PS: As long as it's not a character I love, it's totally fine (but sad)!

[frodonk]

This series already had that kind of soft, gentle sad vibe ever since the start but I didn't know it would be this depressing.

It might've been because I didn't expect any of the main characters to die in this kind of setting, even the deaths in SAO wasn't this depressing, probably because those that died were either villains or minor characters.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Thank you for mentioning D&D. That Yume was intended to be a stand in for Ranger class could explain her dreams about her wolf deity. Ranger do get a high affinity with Nature, and some eventually get an animal companion.

A cute, yet fearsome mascot please?

Originally Posted by Harbinger

They actually got ambushed and someone did die

I don't want to sound mean, but I do hope that he's not the only one to die. It would keep everyone (viewers) on edge. This anime is getting more and more interesting!

PS: As long as it's not a character I love, it's totally fine (but sad)!

I'll never understand why people revere trainwrecks so much, but I digress. No, killing of a character won't do much for the story at all. Manato wasn't even killed for shock value in the first place.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I thought the No Life King was Alucard...

It most certainly was!
The priest was voiced by Jouji Nakata, the very same voice of Alucard.

So when he said "No Life King", despite being a depressing serious scene, I laughed and exclaimed "that's YOU!"

This MUST have been intentional on the staff's part.

[Kismet-chan]

The names of some of the gods in Grimgar are hilarious to me. "Skullhell"? "No Life King"? Geez.

Anyway, I accidentally spoiled myself so I knew what was coming, but it was still pretty depressing to see. Key pieces of dialogue that obviously rose death flags kind of made me laugh, though. I'm interested to see how things progress from this point onward.

[Harbinger]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

I'll never understand why people revere trainwrecks so much, but I digress. No, killing of a character won't do much for the story at all. Manato wasn't even killed for shock value in the first place.

It makes fight scenes more tense since you know that death is around the corner.

I don't want some random death though. In this situation, they got too comfortable and paid the price --- it made sense. Another death could be that someone didn't follow the team's plan-of-action properly and caused someone to die -or- to be heavily injured.

Well, it doesn't have to end with a death --- as long as we know that mistakes are costly.

[Arya]

Surely it helps making more tense the fights. Now that I think about it that's the reason I usually dont' give a damn about fights. Because generally there's no tension to make them interesting since generally the MC is OP whenever the show will admit it or not, so the only factor remains the fashion.
Well, back to the topic, it's also true that if you keep killing your main characters the show won't last long.

There's another option that would keep the tension and it would be that wounds matter. But, in this show at least, with healers it can't happen.

And to be fair to Grimmgal I find the realism of the fights already enough to feel the tension and worries for the party, and that even before Manato's.

[EroKing]

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