AnimeSuki Forums

Uzumaki||Demon · 2004-03-16, 17:37

Well kyubi or not. Naruto is still a kick ass character and is my fav! :up:
Just gotta love that attitude!!
/me remembers when he entered the first test for the Chuunin Exam and said he'd beat all the "bastards" there. That was pure pwnage!!

fenikkusu · 2004-03-16, 18:10

uchiha nick... please start using spoiler tags, i know i've told u this a few other times so please start using them. If u dont know what a spoiler is....its basically sumthing that has happened in the manga but hasnt happened in the anime.

i've read the manga and i'm fine with it but i do completely understand people that dont want to be spoiled. and this isnt a spoiler thread. it the title had spoiler in it i wouldnt care. but please start using spoiler tags in a non spoiler thread

EbonySeraphim · 2004-03-16, 18:18

We're digressing a bit from initial prompt at not saying "without Kyubi he is..." it's part of Naruto. He can't get rid of it. No one else can attain it. It's pretty much like any other character's ability. Why would you consider/look at them without it? It might be somewhat intersting to point it, but it has no final judgement value. I could very well say Lee and Gai(at their respective levels) could beat any ninjas if no jutsus were allowed. In fact, Gai would probably beat everyone else. [please don't reply to that]

But addressing his level at present...let's consider that Naruto is capable of summoning Gamabunta as he is now. Not likely unless its a desperate enough situation. But that alone...I dont think any of the other Genins can stand up against. That's just one "ability" of Naruto that I think should be looked at when comparing Naruto to other characters.

On an off-the-wall note: If you have to consider what Naruto would be like when he unleashes all of the Nine-Tails chakra...consider the story from the beginning. How strong Kyubi was. Consider that it also took the 4th a seal that cost his life to stop it, and with a wave of a single tail he would cause natural disasters...I'm sure you all know it better than me. If you look at the first episode, even Gamabunta was involved in the fight with countless ninjas (chuunins and jounins no doubt) and they still couldn't hold it back effectively. Of course, if such a thing happened to Naruto the way he is now, his body would probably take some serious damage/end up like Gaara where his personality would be taken over.

nh1 · 2004-03-16, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by realdeal

He barely beat neji. Defeated by Lee.

Its true Naruto can only rise to the high levels with kyubi..I mean he dont stand a chance against any major genin without kyubi power. After summoning it he can become close to invincible. Hes only gone up against 2 jounin level fighters, first one he wasnt really kyubified well and 2nd one well..check manga

He wanted to beat Neji in close combat, high chakra vs chakra reflection/defense is not really a good combination. About the Lee-thing, it was mainly to display the skill-differences between Lee, Sasuke and Naruto. Remember that Sasuke also got a heavy beating by Lee, who do you think would win in a fight between those two now? Also, who has grown the most, Sasuke or Naruto? Sure, the Kyuubi is a good bonus for Naruto at the time being, but if the series continue for a long time, I think he will start depending less on the Kyuubi and rather become more like the 4th.
I didn't spoil anything, right?

psycoking · 2004-03-16, 19:21

alot of people are say stuff like "if he didn't have the kyuubi. . .". Well if he didn't have the kyuubi he WOULD be a different person. He would have probably had friends as a kid, which means he wouldn't have been the class clown trying to get attention, which means he would have probably tried harder at the academy instead of goofed off, which means he would have been more skilled, which means he would have been an awsome kickass genin that sasuke would be jelouse of. Get the point? No? Well we don't AND NEVER WILL know what naruto would have been like with out kyuubi!!! His and the nine-tails chakra are still seperate, so imo naruto would have still been strong if he only had the blue chakra to work with (but obviously some people wouldn't agree with me).

Spoiler:

besides, this arguement is like saying "neji wouldn't be so great if he was blind". No shit! but that wouldn't have necessarily made him a bad ninja (I've seen plenty of ninja's with one or both eyes covered).

realdeal · 2004-03-16, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

Naruto is in the manga strongest genin without the Kyubi dude you go read the manga.

um ive read it thank you very much..Nowhere in the manga does he prove his strong without his kyubi. Sasuke would anihilate him, so would neji, even Lee's preliminaries skills would.

So far what do we see him do in the manga:

Spoiler:

The only latest fights we seen him do without kyubi is vs neji where he got his ass whooped, totally..then he kyubified. Also against Kiba which he won, I give him props for that but nowhere was Kiba on the LXG, league of extraordinary Genins such as Lee or neji.

realdeal · 2004-03-16, 20:05

BTW b4 any boring speech comes on to me about naruto is not naruto without kyubi blah blah blah, Im not talking about naruto without kyubi, Im talkin about naruto NOT being kyubified, ie calling forth the chakra of the kyubi such as fight with kiba though oro's seal restricted his natural unsummoned kyubi chakra there.

And to poster above, yea I also believe in time Naruto will depend less on kyubi, but so far right now all hes doing is relying on it, even his new moves requires kyubi.

psycoking · 2004-03-16, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by realdeal

um ive read it thank you very much..Nowhere in the manga does he prove his strong without his kyubi. Sasuke would anihilate him, so would neji, even Lee's preliminaries skills would.

So far what do we see him do in the manga:

Spoiler:

The only latest fights we seen him do without kyubi is vs neji where he got his ass whooped, totally..then he kyubified. Also against Kiba which he won, I give him props for that but nowhere was Kiba on the LXG, league of extraordinary Genins such as Lee or neji.

Spoiler:

Sethi · 2004-03-16, 20:24

Is it just me or many people here complain that Naruto without Kyubi would suck big time and that he is only strong because of Kyubi, saying that he would lose his matches if he doesnt use Kyubi chakra or almost all the moves he does requires Kyubi chakra and all he does is to depend on Kyubi chakra, i still don't understand What is the big problem of that???
He depends on Kyubi Chakra?? GREAT if he didn't use it he would be a total idiot, even Jiraiya himself said it, it's a waste to have all that immense chakra in there and not use it, if any other character in the series had it he would use it as well.
Is new moves Requires Kyubi Chakra? AWESOME that means all his new moves if connect will pretty much end the fight or turn the fight in Naruto favor.
He would lose is Matches if he didn't had Kyubi Chakra? SO WHAT, if Neji didn't used byakukan he would be a weak ass if Sasuke wasn't a Genius Uchiha he would suck, Kyubi is for what we know the strongest demon on earth and it's sealed in Naruto probably for the rest of his life, and all the people in the village hate him for it at least he can extract great power when he is afflicted.
I don't mind seeing Naruto use Kyubi power at all, rather i am glad he uses it because it's damn cool and that way we can see better fights, what i do mind is if Naruto goes around destroying Kages and Jounins, which he doesn't, and it was already been implied in the Manga and anime countless times that Naruto can't do shit against a high level ninja even if he is using Kyubi Chakra, but in time with is growth and learning new skills and mastering is Chakra, Naruto will pretty much wipe the floor with everyone for now he is just at perhaps High Chunnin level strength.

rEkKaShInObI · 2004-03-16, 21:39

Naruto = One hit wonder

anyone disagree? everytime naruto fights, the outcome is pretty predictable, hell you already know whos gonna win. If say naruto was to fight itachi, who would win? one of the poll answer said that he can be defeatable but only to the right person, well who is the right person?

Lost World · 2004-03-16, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEkKaShInObI

Naruto = One hit wonder

anyone disagree? everytime naruto fights, the outcome is pretty predictable, hell you already know whos gonna win. If say naruto was to fight itachi, who would win? one of the poll answer said that he can be defeatable but only to the right person, well who is the right person?

Um, Itachi, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Kisame, Orochimaru (HE ALREADY LOST AGAINST HIM FOR CHRIKES SAKES!), Kakashi, Gai, etc etc etc!

It's pretty damn obvious that most of the upper level ninjas could beat Naruto. I'm pretty sure Shikamaru could find a way to do it, too.

hobobaggins · 2004-03-16, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEkKaShInObI

Naruto = One hit wonder

anyone disagree? everytime naruto fights, the outcome is pretty predictable, hell you already know whos gonna win. If say naruto was to fight itachi, who would win? one of the poll answer said that he can be defeatable but only to the right person, well who is the right person?

same with any other TV show or movie.

EbonySeraphim · 2004-03-17, 01:22

real deal: You seem to be getting very heated about this. Calm down.

(Showing my bias here)
Though it has been shown that obviously Naruto isn't as good as certain people in the series, it has been done purposely to show that he needs to grow, and that he is growing. At one point, Orochimaru thinks absolutely nothing of him. At some *unknown point* later in the manga, he definitely notes that Naruto is someone who needs to get out of the way. (I don't think that was a spoiler) You see the same thing coming from other people in the series. Another big point is that Naruto, even has his current level of ability, could do a lot more than what he is made to do. He just doesn't think about it or try things out and pick a style. He knows how to concentrate chakra into certain parts of his body. Basically using that, he should be able to enhance any physical aspect of himself greatly considering his heightened level of chakra -- insanely stronger if Kyubi's chakra is used.

Also, in defense of people at the point being stronger than Naruto now - as if this wasn't already obvious: Naruto doesn't know of a lot of the things he should be doing in terms of stealth, logical chakra use/control, indirection, anticipating the enemy. I think if he employed some of the basics of indirection and measuring the enemies abilities/type, he would be much better withtout much thought. Of course these things are missing in him for a reason.

The thing is, if Naruto was made like Neji, as far as initial given ability, he would be insanely powerful right now and the audiences "desire" for him to become more powerful wouldn't be as high. Hopefully, they will continue to show Naruto stepping up, becoming stronger at a good pace that satisfies the audience.

rEkKaShInObI · 2004-03-17, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobobaggins

same with any other TV show or movie.

Recca loses, Goku loses, Shinji loses, asuka loses, rei loses, heero yuy loses, trowa barton loses, quatra loses, change wifei loses, duo loses, zechs loses, yugi loses, sasuke loses, chouji loses, mikagami tokiya loses, kirisawa fuuko loses, jubei chan loses, the list goes on... care to re-evaluate yourself? naruto is still the only 1-hit-wonder we've seen in many years.

JOJOS'STAR · 2004-03-17, 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEkKaShInObI

Recca loses, Goku loses, Shinji loses, asuka loses, rei loses, heero yuy loses, trowa barton loses, quatra loses, change wifei loses, duo loses, zechs loses, yugi loses, sasuke loses, chouji loses, mikagami tokiya loses, kirisawa fuuko loses, jubei chan loses, the list goes on... care to re-evaluate yourself? naruto is still the only 1-hit-wonder we've seen in many years.

He will eventualy lose. You got my words for it. ^^

Lexander · 2004-03-17, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOJOS'STAR

He will eventualy lose. You got my words for it. ^^

That's fo sho

, he already got handled by oro and i think

Spoiler:

Edit:

Spoiler:

kaede · 2004-03-17, 02:51

i think he is very strong equal with kyubi or without kyubi ok, but without kyubi he were not Naruto. i am right?

kaede · 2004-03-17, 02:53

yeah he were handeled buy Orochimaru because he want to protect Sasuke you understand

Lexander · 2004-03-17, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaede

i think he is very strong equal with kyubi or without kyubi ok, but without kyubi he were not Naruto. i am right?

Agreed, I can't really picture that dude withough his trusty demon companion

.

The point i was trying to make about Oro was that he proved that he is on a completely other level. It's true he was protecting a pisshispantsoutoffear sasuke but he still didn't have what it takes.

realdeal · 2004-03-17, 08:00

umm I aint getting heated over this. I replied a little bit more violently because of soemones crappy comment about read manga, if you dont know me, you dont know if ive read it or not so dont make stupid comments.

And the other time I basically pointed out I dont want any boring speeches about how naruto wouldnt be naruto without his kyubi etc. I merely pointed out Im not talking about naruto without kyubi, Im tlaking about him not calling the kyubi power. Also I dont liek those speeches because people will always say Naruto without kyubi, why? because unlike sharingan, byakugan, kyubi does not belong to naruto nor is it naruto. Its a monster locked in him and has a different mind.

And I do believe the rasengan uses the kyubi's chakra. It certainly requires a tremendous amount, but even if it didnt that still does not make him strongest genin, its just a move and when fighting a real opponent especially a fast one its pretty useless.

View Poll Results: How strong do you think Naruto is?
Insanely strong, with Kyubi at his whim, even Hokages should run.	38	26.57%
Strong, but very defeatable against the right enemy.	93	65.03%
Average. There are a ton of other characters with "wild cards"	5	3.50%
Weaker than most: the show might buff him up a lot but really, he sucks.	4	2.80%
He's too stupid to ever get to a high enough level.	3	2.10%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

2004-03-16, 19:21	Link #45
psycoking kyōki-ō Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: somewhere in your house. . .	alot of people are say stuff like "if he didn't have the kyuubi. . .". Well if he didn't have the kyuubi he WOULD be a different person. He would have probably had friends as a kid, which means he wouldn't have been the class clown trying to get attention, which means he would have probably tried harder at the academy instead of goofed off, which means he would have been more skilled, which means he would have been an awsome kickass genin that sasuke would be jelouse of. Get the point? No? Well we don't AND NEVER WILL know what naruto would have been like with out kyuubi!!! His and the nine-tails chakra are still seperate, so imo naruto would have still been strong if he only had the blue chakra to work with (but obviously some people wouldn't agree with me). Spoiler: hell he did rasengan without calling up the kyuubi's power besides, this arguement is like saying "neji wouldn't be so great if he was blind". No shit! but that wouldn't have necessarily made him a bad ninja (I've seen plenty of ninja's with one or both eyes covered).

2004-03-16, 17:37	Link #41
Uzumaki\|\|Demon -»-»Kyubified«-«- Join Date: Mar 2004	Well kyubi or not. Naruto is still a kick ass character and is my fav! :up: Just gotta love that attitude!! /me remembers when he entered the first test for the Chuunin Exam and said he'd beat all the "bastards" there. That was pure pwnage!!

2004-03-16, 18:10	Link #42
fenikkusu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 810 Age: 41	uchiha nick... please start using spoiler tags, i know i've told u this a few other times so please start using them. If u dont know what a spoiler is....its basically sumthing that has happened in the manga but hasnt happened in the anime. i've read the manga and i'm fine with it but i do completely understand people that dont want to be spoiled. and this isnt a spoiler thread. it the title had spoiler in it i wouldnt care. but please start using spoiler tags in a non spoiler thread

2004-03-16, 18:18	Link #43
EbonySeraphim Phat Poster/Thread Killer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Rochester Age: 38	We're digressing a bit from initial prompt at not saying "without Kyubi he is..." it's part of Naruto. He can't get rid of it. No one else can attain it. It's pretty much like any other character's ability. Why would you consider/look at them without it? It might be somewhat intersting to point it, but it has no final judgement value. I could very well say Lee and Gai(at their respective levels) could beat any ninjas if no jutsus were allowed. In fact, Gai would probably beat everyone else. [please don't reply to that] But addressing his level at present...let's consider that Naruto is capable of summoning Gamabunta as he is now. Not likely unless its a desperate enough situation. But that alone...I dont think any of the other Genins can stand up against. That's just one "ability" of Naruto that I think should be looked at when comparing Naruto to other characters. On an off-the-wall note: If you have to consider what Naruto would be like when he unleashes all of the Nine-Tails chakra...consider the story from the beginning. How strong Kyubi was. Consider that it also took the 4th a seal that cost his life to stop it, and with a wave of a single tail he would cause natural disasters...I'm sure you all know it better than me. If you look at the first episode, even Gamabunta was involved in the fight with countless ninjas (chuunins and jounins no doubt) and they still couldn't hold it back effectively. Of course, if such a thing happened to Naruto the way he is now, his body would probably take some serious damage/end up like Gaara where his personality would be taken over.

2004-03-16, 20:05	Link #47
realdeal The Real Deal Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK	BTW b4 any boring speech comes on to me about naruto is not naruto without kyubi blah blah blah, Im not talking about naruto without kyubi, Im talkin about naruto NOT being kyubified, ie calling forth the chakra of the kyubi such as fight with kiba though oro's seal restricted his natural unsummoned kyubi chakra there. And to poster above, yea I also believe in time Naruto will depend less on kyubi, but so far right now all hes doing is relying on it, even his new moves requires kyubi.

2004-03-16, 20:24	Link #49
Sethi StormRider Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Portugal	Is it just me or many people here complain that Naruto without Kyubi would suck big time and that he is only strong because of Kyubi, saying that he would lose his matches if he doesnt use Kyubi chakra or almost all the moves he does requires Kyubi chakra and all he does is to depend on Kyubi chakra, i still don't understand What is the big problem of that??? He depends on Kyubi Chakra?? GREAT if he didn't use it he would be a total idiot, even Jiraiya himself said it, it's a waste to have all that immense chakra in there and not use it, if any other character in the series had it he would use it as well. Is new moves Requires Kyubi Chakra? AWESOME that means all his new moves if connect will pretty much end the fight or turn the fight in Naruto favor. He would lose is Matches if he didn't had Kyubi Chakra? SO WHAT, if Neji didn't used byakukan he would be a weak ass if Sasuke wasn't a Genius Uchiha he would suck, Kyubi is for what we know the strongest demon on earth and it's sealed in Naruto probably for the rest of his life, and all the people in the village hate him for it at least he can extract great power when he is afflicted. I don't mind seeing Naruto use Kyubi power at all, rather i am glad he uses it because it's damn cool and that way we can see better fights, what i do mind is if Naruto goes around destroying Kages and Jounins, which he doesn't, and it was already been implied in the Manga and anime countless times that Naruto can't do shit against a high level ninja even if he is using Kyubi Chakra, but in time with is growth and learning new skills and mastering is Chakra, Naruto will pretty much wipe the floor with everyone for now he is just at perhaps High Chunnin level strength.

2004-03-16, 21:39	Link #50
rEkKaShInObI LiFe Of ReVeNgE Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vana'Diel Age: 37	Naruto = One hit wonder anyone disagree? everytime naruto fights, the outcome is pretty predictable, hell you already know whos gonna win. If say naruto was to fight itachi, who would win? one of the poll answer said that he can be defeatable but only to the right person, well who is the right person?

2004-03-17, 01:22	Link #53
EbonySeraphim Phat Poster/Thread Killer Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Rochester Age: 38	real deal: You seem to be getting very heated about this. Calm down. (Showing my bias here) Though it has been shown that obviously Naruto isn't as good as certain people in the series, it has been done purposely to show that he needs to grow, and that he is growing. At one point, Orochimaru thinks absolutely nothing of him. At some unknown point later in the manga, he definitely notes that Naruto is someone who needs to get out of the way. (I don't think that was a spoiler) You see the same thing coming from other people in the series. Another big point is that Naruto, even has his current level of ability, could do a lot more than what he is made to do. He just doesn't think about it or try things out and pick a style. He knows how to concentrate chakra into certain parts of his body. Basically using that, he should be able to enhance any physical aspect of himself greatly considering his heightened level of chakra -- insanely stronger if Kyubi's chakra is used. Also, in defense of people at the point being stronger than Naruto now - as if this wasn't already obvious: Naruto doesn't know of a lot of the things he should be doing in terms of stealth, logical chakra use/control, indirection, anticipating the enemy. I think if he employed some of the basics of indirection and measuring the enemies abilities/type, he would be much better withtout much thought. Of course these things are missing in him for a reason. The thing is, if Naruto was made like Neji, as far as initial given ability, he would be insanely powerful right now and the audiences "desire" for him to become more powerful wouldn't be as high. Hopefully, they will continue to show Naruto stepping up, becoming stronger at a good pace that satisfies the audience.

2004-03-17, 02:51	Link #57
kaede Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: berlin Age: 37	i think he is very strong equal with kyubi or without kyubi ok, but without kyubi he were not Naruto. i am right?

2004-03-17, 02:53	Link #58
kaede Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: berlin Age: 37	yeah he were handeled buy Orochimaru because he want to protect Sasuke you understand

2004-03-17, 08:00	Link #60
realdeal The Real Deal Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK	umm I aint getting heated over this. I replied a little bit more violently because of soemones crappy comment about read manga, if you dont know me, you dont know if ive read it or not so dont make stupid comments. And the other time I basically pointed out I dont want any boring speeches about how naruto wouldnt be naruto without his kyubi etc. I merely pointed out Im not talking about naruto without kyubi, Im tlaking about him not calling the kyubi power. Also I dont liek those speeches because people will always say Naruto without kyubi, why? because unlike sharingan, byakugan, kyubi does not belong to naruto nor is it naruto. Its a monster locked in him and has a different mind. And I do believe the rasengan uses the kyubi's chakra. It certainly requires a tremendous amount, but even if it didnt that still does not make him strongest genin, its just a move and when fighting a real opponent especially a fast one its pretty useless.