(CR) Hibike! Euphonium Season 2

[Flower]

Please remember folks ... if you are going to discuss material in the source material not shown in the anime taken from adaptation material that has already aired it should be in spoiler tags.

ANY hinting at material that is outside of the material currently airing that could potentially spoil future content or any future content should be discussed elsewhere in the Novel thread.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

Well considering the writers were baiting the entire time and didn't take it seriously, it's obvious they don't think of Kumiko x Reina as a thing at all, much less about those kind of relationships.

On the contrary, the writers think that the kind of relationship that Kumiko and Reina have is the most important relationship that someone can have with another person.

Their friendship stands above any romantic relationships they may have in the future, whether it be with Taki or Shuuichi, or some guy they meet later on.

This is precisely what Takeda has been saying in interviews since season 1, such as in this interview from the fanbook.

Originally Posted by Kamieichi

武田 （笑）。小説にかぎらずあらゆる創作物において、恋愛が友情の上に来ることが多いじゃないです か。それに納 得がいかなくて、この作品は友情が上でもいいんじゃないかと思って書いたんです。
Takeda: (laughs) In almost every work, not just novels, there's so many that put romance above friendship, aren't there? I wasn't satisfied with that, so I wrote this work thinking of making friendship above romance.

Originally Posted by Kamieichi

この先、秀一が特別な異性でなくなることはありえますが、麗奈との関係は不変なんです。
[In the future, Shuichi may stop being her special guy, but her relationship with Reina never changes.]

The original translator translated 友情 as "fellowship" back in the day, but I have to agree with Kamieichi -- Takeda meant "friendship."

=====

Originally Posted by GMT

Her relationship with Reina is very likely not that kind of relationship. Yes, there were certain sparks in the first season that were highly suggestive of Kumiko being attracted to Reina on ... ahem ... multiple levels. However, whatever Kumiko might be feeling in her lady-parts does not obligate her to pursue a romantic relationship, nor does it make the bond she does develop with Reina any less valid simply because it isn't romantic.

Great post. I'm glad that more of us are now making this point.

Originally Posted by FredFriendly

Even without reading the source material, that's pretty much exactly what I said back during the first season, especially during the foot stomping incident.

And I think I missed this back in the day - really great analysis!

[Romanticide]

Can't find the quote now, but it was what the female writer said. She mentioned that the fans would know it was baiting. And i'm not talking about Reina and Kumiko's friendship on this, i'm talking about how they were portrayed and those comments they made about each other. I'd rather not have another issue like in the LN thread about how those types of relationships are not normal, so i'll bow out.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

Can't find the quote now, but it was what the female writer said. She mentioned that the fans would know it was baiting. And i'm not talking about Reina and Kumiko's friendship on this, i'm talking about how they were portrayed and those comments they made about each other. I'd rather not have another issue like in the LN thread about how those types of relationships are not normal, so i'll bow out.

That was a translation that, to me, was interpreted out of context. If I recall, it was part of an exchange between Series Director Naoko Yamada (a fellow woman around 30 yrs old who shares Takeda's perspective) with Director Tatsuya Ishihara, a man who was in his late 40s at the time. Ishihara kept saying that to him, Kumiko x Reina feels like "yuri." Yamada insisted that it was not. However, she said that she was prepared for viewers to interpret it that way, because "they will understand later."

In other words, Yamada and Takeda are depicting what "friendship" is to them. But to men and other people who do not share in their experience as young women living in Japan, it might come across as "yuri."

It is entirely up to you what you take the relationship to be, and whether you agree with Yamada and Takeda or not.

But the two of them are not going about this with the intention of "baiting," no matter what anyone who has never shared in the experience they are trying to depict says.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

I'd rather not have another issue like in the LN thread about how those types of relationships are not normal, so i'll bow out.

I don't think this is a relevant issue in the slightest. I don't want to sound disrespectful here, but I just don't think Hibike! is trying to touch on this subject at all, in any form.

Seeing as it was apparently an issue in the LN thread (which I don't visit as I'm avoiding spoilers), I take it the discussion involved multiple people, and what I'm getting at is I'm not pointing fingers at any particular person here. But this just sounds like people bringing their own agendas somewhere they shouldn't.

So while it may be counterproductive here to avoid the issue by responding to it, hopefully we can leave this behind seeing as it's not at all relevant.


Edit: karice67 just summarized it far better than I.

[SleepingTerror]

I read the interview karice67 mentioned after my spat about Kumiko x Reina and that definitely changed my mind about many things. The relationship Kumiko and Reina have is deeper and stronger than any other, and it doesn't necessarily have to be romantic. Of course, when Shuichi comes along, this character with little substance and presence, and somehow ends up being the love interest, I can't help but feel irritated because, I don't know, romance is so often portrayed in anime as end game instead of friendship."End game" as in "final" and "necessary," or more accurately, "if this doesn't happen, what a loss" or "if it does, the end, show's over, everyone go back home." Which downplays the relationship Kumiko and Reina have and I can't stand that possibility.

Well, that hasn't happened yet so I shouldn't worry about it, probably.

[EasternOtaku14]

These discussions, like SleepingTerror said, made me re-evaluate my view of the Kumiko and Reina relationship. When I was supporting the pairing on the internet, I noticed that majority of the fans think immediately about the romantic endgame potential of the pairing more than the progress of their friendship.

Now I get what KyoAni (was it Yamada or the others?) said about having no endgame romantic pairings.

[novalysis]

I think the conversation over Shuichi's relevance would have been severely muted if....

Spoiler for Adapted out Light Novel Scene?:

The fist bump scene during the Regional competition happened.

I think there's going to be no romantic resolution whatsoever in Hibike Euphonium. And that was never the point of Hibike Euphonium as it has been adapted, especially in the second season anyway.

[Romanticide]

It wouldn't have to be romantic, sure, but there are tons of anime with strong female friendships.

Now I get what KyoAni (was it Yamada or the others?) said about having no endgame romantic pairings.

But KyoAni has romantic endgame pairings all the time. Save K-ON! and Hyouka, pretty much. And Hibike probably will end up with a romantic pairing, if they do develop Shuichi.

[EasternOtaku14]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

But KyoAni has romantic endgame pairings all the time. Save K-ON! and Hyouka, pretty much.

It has been stated earlier that Hibike isn't about romance, so this will have no endgame romantic ship.

[Romanticide]

Originally Posted by EasternOtaku14

It has been stated earlier that Hibike isn't about romance, so this will have no endgame romantic ship.

Where? Also didn't they have the whole Kazuki->Shuichi->Kumiko thing last season? And Reina's still in love with Taki-sensei, iirc.

[EasternOtaku14]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

Where? Also didn't they have the whole Kazuki->Shuichi->Kumiko thing last season? And Reina's still in love with Taki-sensei, iirc.

Didn't Takeda indicated that friendship is more important than romance?
Also, the anime depicts these romantic subplots as drama and comedy, respectively. Except for Goto and Riko obviously.

[Romanticide]

Originally Posted by EasternOtaku14

Didn't Takeda indicated that friendship is more important than romance?
Also, the anime depicts these romantic subplots as comedy. Except for Goto and Riko obviously.

I think so? But i'm not sure if that will stick. I don't really see the whole Taki thing as comedy, more like ew why is kumiko trying to support reina with a grown man twice her age. The Kazuki thing was annoyed because she was trying to live vicariously through Kumiko since Shuichi rejected her.

[EasternOtaku14]

Originally Posted by Romanticide

I think so? But i'm not sure if that will stick. I don't really see the whole Taki thing as comedy, more like ew why is kumiko trying to support reina with a grown man twice her age. The Kazuki thing was annoyed because she was trying to live vicariously through Kumiko since Shuichi rejected her.

I don't understand why Reina fell for Taki in the first place.

[SleepingTerror]

Taki-sensei is hot, he's respectable, and Reina has known him for quite some time. I can see why she'd have a crush on him, but that's all it is, a crush. The anime has enforced the fact it is one-sided and shallow.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by EasternOtaku14

I don't understand why Reina fell for Taki in the first place.

It's pretty easy to fall in love with Taki really. He's charming and honest, with a fairly unique attitude that sets him apart from his peers.

In Reina's case, she gravitates towards him because he represents an ideal. She dreams of playing music and being special, and Taki is already sorta there, having music in his life and being a unique individual. Sure it's simplistic, a bit unrealistic as the show does kind of tell us she's way out of his league with Satomi even if she didn't turn out to be a rival, plus the whole teacher-student thing puts a hamper on the thing plus having to deal with the feelings of his deceased partner, and kind of shallow, but that kind of idealization isn't uncommon for her age. It's an underlying part of her motivation and overall fairly well written. The anime doesn't try to overly idealize or glorify her intentions at all.

Then again when you have anime standards where people expect characters to fall in love with another because they represent a certain trope, or just for the sake of pairing people just because they happen to be major characters, regardless of it really adds to the narrative or not. This put in perspective isn't too bad at all. But any kind of serious shipping now I think is really 20% substance and 80% wishful thinking so I wouldn't give too much thought to it though it's fine to pay attention. Of course, I think it has warranted way too much already.

[BleedingUranium]

Also, like 90% of the girls in the band have a crush on Taki to some degree. I don't think Reina's situation is really much different, it's just that because it's Reina she's special and takes such things super-seriously.

[Bordix]

She is indeed special. I don't think anyone would take a huge risk by choosing Kitauji who isn't exactly known for its concert-band just because of Taki-sensei

[Archon_Wing]

Don't get me wrong. She's very talented and beautiful compared to her peers, but that's just her peers. There's plenty of bigger fish out there. If only one of them that isn't even going after Taki can send her into a mental breakdown just by appearing, that's a long way to go.

And even amongst her peers, the likes of Asuka give her a run for her money, which is why I imagine she'd get triggered if she hears stuff like this

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[Arya]

Ok, I'll say it, personally I see Reina the very talented one while Asuka the special one.

Originally Posted by EasternOtaku14

I don't understand why Reina fell for Taki in the first place.

It would be interesting if she already knew about his tragic past. That somehow would make very sense. That she knows it. Any correlation to the reasons she fell for him would be a plus to shape a more rounded engagement/sentiment than just the one it seems as of now, that could be just a crush after all.