Dating

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Despite what I said about dating sites earlier, they aren't inherently bad, and I think you're coming out a bit too harshly on them. Ideally, if you find a good dating site, you'll be putting up a picture and in your interests, entering "anime." Then, you should be matched with other people who like anime, and you two can make a date from there, to watch anime or talk about it.

Dating sites ideally should help you find people who share your interests and are looking for a relationship; that usually means they will put a bit more effort into things, whereas just joining an anime group is no guarantee that there is someone there who is open to a relationship (if there's females at all!).

In short, not much difference from blind dates where your friends go "Oh hey, I know someone perfect for you; let me set you up with them!"

Ideally, yes, we can agree that's the purpose. But in actual application, dating sites tend to foster a mentality where one's interests or activities are just the pretext to dating. I never said that everyone falls under this banner, but it's rather a simple fact that most of the people that approach you or are approached by you will be thinking this way simply because that's what a dating site is for.

It's entirely on the user to decide how to handle that, and certainly you can find people who aren't bending themselves to catch a date, but because it's a much greater risk than in a casual, interest-focused context, I still warn against it.

Of course, I don't put much stock in blind dates either. Perhaps what I'm saying is only applicable to people who see dating as a significant investment in-and-of-itself. For people who fall more in the 'casual dating and maybe something will come of it' category, dating sites are probably ideal because the odds of someone being willing to set up that first date with you are so much higher.

[zebra]

I'd like to know how high the hook up rates are on dating sites
I used to think advertisements in newspapers rarely result in a relationship, but it seems the (huge) majority is succesful. At least I read that in a serious newspaper. So maybe it's the same with dating sites?
I personally only know people who went on a date or two with someone they 'met' on a dating site, but nothing lasting ever resulted out of it.

I wouldn't go hunting there - for the simple reason that you have a very limited view of the person, just as the other only sees the pretty picture of you.

Funnily enough - my boyfriend contacted me through a social network. He spottet me in one of the game communities and thought I seemed to be a fun person. So he chatted me up and after a while we agreed to meet sometime. We kinda met through us loving games - hey that's something in common again!

Well I think it's fine to hook up with someone you socialize with because you have the same interests, but I wouldn't join or advise to do that just because you wanna get with someone in romantic context.

Just as Kaijo said - there is no guarentee your hobby is full of your prey. Aaaand I personally don't think the same hobby is such a great start either. Sure, it's awesome to share a passion and you immediatly have something to talk about, but it's far from being a basis for a relationship. I didn't have many interests in common with my past boyfriends and it never really was an issue. I actually like to get to know new things, I'm a bit adventurous, I guess . And they often checked out my hobbies as well and sometimes even converted to like the same things. Of course it's nice to have a boyfriend where "I'm in the middle of a mission, later!" is a valid reason to hang up on him, but seriously I would like him just as much if he never had held a gamepad in his hands before.

The personality is the key imho and that is best inspected face to face.
A nice ass helps, too.


My advise for meeting someone is easy: Don't search, just socialize.
Go around like always and if you see a cutie smile at her/him. Go out to meet new people.
Or mention that you don't want to be single anymore to your friends, they might know just the right person.
But as it already been said: The right one mostly shows up when you least expect it, so don't try too hard. It also easily becomes desperate in other peoples eyes if you try too much - and thus a potential love interest might just shrug you off as uninteresting.

[Lio]

Originally Posted by Mystique

If it's now called 'slander' by you when a person challenges a concept repeated over and over by a member here in a 'if this doesn't happen, it'll fail' kinda note, then "slander" it is.

Read the first section of your previous post. If you're more aware, you might notice that there were a few direct attacks and insults. You may want to be more aware of what you actually say to others, as opposed to what you believe you say.

You also told me straight out that you deliberately omit information or what you truly think or feel in your posts sometimes, leaving it vague to people interpret it in different ways just so "you can see what kinda peeeps they are based of how they respond."
(Not really, when you're judging based off their thoughts and feelings based infomation that isn't complete, therefore not painting a true picture and deliberately made so, I call that 'baiting' or manipulation')

So, when somebody says something that obviously applies to a very limited area for a specific purpose for a specifically directed audience, you automatically assume that that's their entire character and that they do it all the time to everyone? I hope that works for you.

Thus makes a debate sweetie.

I have no interest in debates. I have discussions.
But I understand how you feel, because I was once like you.


Anyways,

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I'm going to be honest, I'm failing to understand how "He makes me happy" means that we're anywhere to begin with. I certainly understand that it helps to have, say, a foundation to work off of for a relationship once it begins (hence, starting with the whole "He makes me happy" deal and building it from there), but I'm not quite grasping how that makes our relationship any better or places it in any one place because I'm aware of it. Many people are together for other reasons that they're aware of, such as money, or a fear of being alone; it fits under your idea, but does that really make the relationship any better?

Of course. If you lose the awareness of why you're together, you'll more easily do things that can harm the relationship without even knowing it. The most obvious example is marriage. I've known more than a few couples who ended up breaking up because they decided to get engaged too quickly. I asked them - "What is it that keeps you two together? Why him/her?" The answer was always something like "I like being with her" or "He's The one" - vague things like that, which tells me they're in the relationship for a reason equally vague. All of those couples broke off the engagement and ended up separating.

The couples that I know who have great relationships agree with me that, just being aware of why you're in the relationship makes a big difference. "I love serving her open to Love" "We can help each other live more deeply and more lovingly than with other partners."

Just feel that difference, and feel how just being aware of it, how it can influence your relationship in a more and more positive way.

If you're in it to make each other happy (at least for now), and you're aware of it, you're naturally gonna keep the relationship more aligned with why you're in it in the moment without making any effort. It looks small, but just being aware of it every now and then is enough to make the difference.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Lio

Just feel that difference, and feel how just being aware of it, how it can influence your relationship in a more and more positive way.

You missed my question. I'm not saying your viewpoint on it is wrong, but what about the situations where people are only together for money, or fame, or just don't want to be alone and marry the next person they meet? I mean, maybe it helps to be aware of that, but I don't see how saying "Yeah, I only married this person for money" or "Yeah, I only married this person because they're famous" will make the relationship any stronger.

EDIT: Also, if Mystique's post bothers you so much, you've got a bit to learn yet. She makes these posts all the time, she means no harm by any of it.

[Lio]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

You missed my question. I'm not saying your viewpoint on it is wrong, but what about the situations where people are only together for money, or fame, or just don't want to be alone and marry the next person they meet? I mean, maybe it helps to be aware of that, but I don't see how saying "Yeah, I only married this person for money" or "Yeah, I only married this person because they're famous" will make the relationship any stronger.

EDIT: Also, if Mystique's post bothers you so much, you've got a bit to learn yet. She makes these posts all the time, she means no harm by any of it.

Well, those are pretty low-level relationships, and I don't care for them.

I've been here long enough to know where Mystique's coming from. I just thought I'd give her something that could be potentially useful for her at some point.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Lio

Well, those are pretty low-level relationships, and I don't care for them.

I've been here long enough to know where Mystique's coming from. I just thought I'd give her something that could be potentially useful for her at some point.

But doesn't your line of thought still apply to them, even if they're low-level? After all, they are aware of "why" they're together, even if they aren't good reasons. So isn't it really the same thing in the end?

[Lio]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

But doesn't your line of thought still apply to them, even if they're low-level? After all, they are aware of "why" they're together, even if they aren't good reasons. So isn't it really the same thing in the end?

Sure, and knowing their reasons for being together, they'll automatically do what it takes to make sure they keep getting the money or fame that they're getting from the relationship, and avoid anything that could jeopardize it.

You're correct, it applies equally in the same way (unfortunately?).

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Lio

Sure, and knowing their reasons for being together, they'll automatically do what it takes to make sure they keep getting the money or fame that they're getting from the relationship, and avoid anything that could jeopardize it.

You're correct, it applies equally in the same way (unfortunately?).

So I guess I'm just failing to see how being aware of why you're together ultimately makes a relationship "better". I mean, I can understand the whole "He makes me happy" thing, but what about the relationships like that? Yes, it will make the person happier, but it won't make the relationship better. I suppose it's a hit or miss theory depending on what kind of relationship you're in and why you're in it.

[Lio]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

So I guess I'm just failing to see how being aware of why you're together ultimately makes a relationship "better". I mean, I can understand the whole "He makes me happy" thing, but what about the relationships like that? Yes, it will make the person happier, but it won't make the relationship better. I suppose it's a hit or miss theory depending on what kind of relationship you're in and why you're in it.

Erm, for your relationship, and other positive relationships based on sharing - you know, good relationships - you can feel that it helps the relationship, right? And I'm sure if your partner also has a positive outlook on why he's in the relationship, that'll also serve the relationship. And if you both communicate to each other why you like being in the relationship, that'll strengthen it even more if you choose to do so.

I guess my question is, why are you concerned with what happens in those low level relationships?

I'm talking about it as something practical and useful for people who want their relationships to grow and thrive, people who are interested in postive relationships, like yours, which I'd imagine most people who read this thread are interested in. I have a feeling you might have mistakened it for some kind of theory. Nah, just a simple piece of advice that will help your relationship that the other readers will also get something from. Theories are useful in hard sciences like physics, but to bring them into relationships is really bizarre and only puts a box around something that can't be contained. It just doesn't work that way.

I hope that clears it up.

[Kaijo]

It has to do with expectations, and knowing you're in the relationship for a healthy reason. If you can't broach the "why" question, then it's a sign that maybe you're aware the relationship is bad on a subconscious level, or won't work, but you don't want to face it. On the other hand, if you can honestly approach the question and it's a healthy reason, and you and your partner are aware of the reasons and where you are going, then things should be fine.

But there are a lot of people who who just drop into a relationship and don't put much thought into it, and thus it'll eventually end because they aren't. Relationships of any kind take thought and work, and you need the former to do the latter.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Mystique

If it's now called 'slander' by you when a person challenges a concept repeated over and over by a member here in a 'if this doesn't happen, it'll fail' kinda note, then "slander" it is.

Hmm... that would be...

You know... you've been singing praises about 'if you don't know what your relationship's about' line for almost every post you write over the last month, makes me wonder what happened to you (bitterly) that you use it as an opening line for 99.9% of your relationship posts to the rest of us.
If you don't know, doooooom~~ </thunder>

Relative, how I say things and how a reader interprets them (ie, RB vs you) are different, right?
Stating the same thing that RB said about you making this reference a hell of a lot of times in my usual cheeky self = I'm well aware of how I construct my posts.
No excuses from me, how I replied to you is nothing particular special to you either.

Originally Posted by Mystique

You also told me straight out that you deliberately omit information or what you truly think or feel in your posts sometimes, leaving it vague to people interpret it in different ways just so "you can see what kinda peeeps they are based of how they respond."
(Not really, when you're judging based off their thoughts and feelings based infomation that isn't complete, therefore not painting a true picture and deliberately made so, I call that 'baiting' or manipulation')

I do love on forums when people partially quote a person's response and reply to that just therefore taking out of context from what it's actually tied to.
After I said that, I also gave you a A vs B.

So my senses tell me there's probably more reason of why you keep preaching Gospel about the 'knowing the reasons of your relationship, else doom'.
You'll often find if a hardset thought is accompanied with an actual event/experience so people can see a reference or see your thoughts in context, you may get more curious and sincere questions, too.
Good communication makes for less misunderstandings, of course it applies to relationships as well.
If you're a smart, balanced, strong opinionated guy, then bring smart, balanced, strong opinionated guy to the GC threads.
(as I caught a glimpse of him when you broke down your response on my profile wall)

If you're keeping those to yourself, then I can only challenge and offer 'here's the otherside/other trail of thought which is also possible to this statement' to the board and people can compliment, add to or challenge those as well.
(which is what I did with the Christianity thread before it got wiped)

If variable A then this result.
If variable B then this result.
-That does not denote that I believe that technique of yours is applied to 100% or that's all you are, it denotes that I'm aware it's your choice to present yourself that way and I was telling you what likely responses you'd receive if you do one or the other.
I've no time for mind games or for hidden pieces of info that I fail to tell you until after your response and then go:
"Well no, just because I replied this way, wasn't how you should react in -this- case..."

I'm not a mind reader, I'm aware as I stated in above quote that there are probably more hidden reasons to how you reply vs your thought process, I can only read how you typically respond to others and how you present yourself.
In other words, I'm taking your words with a pinch of salt, Lio, as we all do here when we're communicating with each other, cause all we have are our posts to go on for most part.
To loosely tie it into dating, we also tend to do the same when on dates with new people and getting to know them, you give them the intital benefit of the doubt.
However, if you don't clearly state things and someone acts/reacts of that only for you to go:
"No... there's more to it. It's actually this." (which I failed to mention before)
Then my intuition tells me is whatever and however I respond to you in my usual cheeky tone, there'll always be some kinda hidden agenda or hidden piece of information then brought to light to discredit my replies... later on.

- If I'm gaining useful information from ya, it's just seeing how you communicate when feeling slightly miffed or on the defence and how it relates to my personality with my posts.
We're not gonna get very far with each other, and chances are that you'll reply after this of which I gotta drop it else mods/admin will get trigger happy, but now you know where I'm coming from and how I reply so as RB says, "You've got a bit to learn with me", as observing me on here but recently only directly communicating with me seem to be crossing wires.
Text is a limited format of communication to how we'd present ourselves offline or via Skype (hence pinch of salt) but how I present myself here is what I also do offline, no difference, just naturally as with everyone there's more than meets the eye. ^_~

I have no interest in debates. I have discussions.

We're all having discussions with each other and exchanging ideas, opposing on not on here, especially in this dating thread as well.

de•bate
   /dɪˈbeɪt/ Show Spelled [dih-beyt] Show IPA noun, verb, -bat•ed, -bat•ing.
–noun
1.
a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think what Lio is trying to say, is that it's not a bad idea to really know why someone is with you. You can't be afraid to ask the question, for fear of the answer. If they are with you solely because they are getting something specific out of you (like money, sex, status, etc.) and you are uncomfortable with that, then don't you think it's important that you know? Or perhaps someone is with you because you tell them what they want to hear. Or perhaps they are fine with a relationship, but don't want to ultimately commit, so you might think it's heading down the road to a lifelong commitment, but they think otherwise.

This goes for friendships as well as relationships. If I'm friends with someone solely because they do things for me and I don't do anything in return, that says something about me, and says something about how long the relationship will last.

In short, you can't be afraid to broach the question. You don't have to constantly ask, but you should make sure you and your partners/friends/etc. are on the same wavelength, even if you both recognize it's a mutual "using" of each other. Make sure it's not fear that keeps you from finding out the truth.

And I said in my response to Lio which he didn't get back to me on funnily enough...

If a person is manipulative, no matter how much a couple is ‘aware’ of what their relationship is about, the other is gonna get screwed over.
Not to mention, people lie and deceive, there isn’t guarantee that both parties are truly even on the same page.

Because you allow me to get away with this, Kaijo <3

George: So sweetie, what would you say is a reason that we're together? What makes our relationship so great.
Amber: Oh Geogregy-poo, even though people say you're old enough to be my dad, it doesn't matter. You give me all that I need and I can get gold store cards anywhere.
George: Okay... what about me? And us?
Amber: Well of course silly! I mean you're rich and you give me anything. And we have an amazing time in the bedroom *winks* I mean if doesn't matter than you need some blue pills, you go down a lot better than Manuelo does which I love you for *giggle*
George: Than... than Manuelo? What the-?!
Amber: Yes, but don't worry baby. My heart is with you. He means nothing to me, I support you by going to your business parties and you support me by buying me anything, we so work totally great!

...
If someone told someone the exact negative reason why they were with another, I'd give kudos to that person for at least having a pair of balls to admit it. xD
Even then, there are many who are 'lovestruck' who fail to see when someone else is with them for the wrong reasons, regardless.
Stubborn peeps are stubborn

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Lio

I guess my question is, why are you concerned with what happens in those low level relationships?

I'm not concerned, I'm just curious, is all. I mean, you always give this advice in your posts, and I know that all advice isn't exactly fool-proof, but I don't know... it seems like a kind of narrow way of viewing things when you can just as easily apply it to a "low-level" relationship, as you put it, as you could to a normal, healthy relationship.

EDIT: Then again, maybe I'm just overthinking it. I tend to do that a lot.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Because you allow me to get away with this, Kaijo <3

George: So sweetie, what would you say is a reason that we're together? What makes our relationship so great.
Amber: Oh Geogregy-poo, even though people say you're old enough to be my dad, it doesn't matter. You give me all that I need and I can get gold store cards anywhere.
George: Okay... what about me? And us?
Amber: Well of course silly! I mean you're rich and you give me anything. And we have an amazing time in the bedroom *winks* I mean if doesn't matter than you need some blue pills, you go down a lot better than Manuelo does which I love you for *giggle*
George: Than... than Manuelo? What the-?!
Amber: Yes, but don't worry baby. My heart is with you. He means nothing to me, I support you by going to your business parties and you support me by buying me anything, we so work totally great!

...
If someone told someone the exact negative reason why they were with another, I'd give kudos to that person for at least having a pair of balls to admit it. xD
Even then, there are many who are 'lovestruck' who fail to see when someone else is with them for the wrong reasons, regardless.
Stubborn peeps are stubborn

Who says I allow you to get away with it? :P

You're assuming it's a "negative" reason. There are many reasons why people get together, but the important point is that they are okay with the reasons, whatever they may be. If both people in the relationship above are okay with that, then it's fine. But that requires truthful introspection, which is not something most people can do.

If you're with someone for reasons you can't admit out loud or especially to your partner, I'd take it as a clear sign that there is trouble afoot.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Who says I allow you to get away with it? :P

You're assuming it's a "negative" reason. There are many reasons why people get together, but the important point is that they are okay with the reasons, whatever they may be. If both people in the relationship above are okay with that, then it's fine. But that requires truthful introspection, which is not something most people can do.

If you're with someone for reasons you can't admit out loud or especially to your partner, I'd take it as a clear sign that there is trouble afoot.

Agreed on that point immensly, some people even have trouble conveying their thoughts into words to try to break down reasons they're together, yet couples and relationships can last without always touching base with each other or establishing the reason why they work, they just try to continue supporting each other through Life and enjoy their time together.
Not saying that Lio's points were wrong but it's not the be all and end all as he feels strongly about.

As i said earlier, it's challenging a repetitve statement just to give others a chance to see other opinions and sides to relationships and allow peeps to form their own opinions, but as for explicity knowing the reasons, both sides not only need to be truthful to the other but damn straight honest with themselves and the situation as it evolves over the years a couple stay together.
I see that more as a personality trait of the people involved or cultural way of maintaining a relationship though...

PS: You let me get away with being cheeky with ya, is what I meant, means I get to have a little fun with my posts without being worried about offending you. Almost a breath of fresh air, that.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

Well honestly, you're not sane if you're always just plain "good" or "bad" IMHO. If I were to go on a relationship, I'd want my lover to know my strengths and flaws. Like for instance, I can be selfish and greedy like a fat veracious cake lover when wanting one's attention.

Then pray, that you will never meet someone with a personality like me. I would so exploit that and tease you.

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

However, it could also mean that I totally love them and not need anyone else.........until we run into a problem Then it's sort it out together and be happy.....or just let the relationship parish due to whatever reason.

Now you lost me. I think the important part here is "Then it's sort it out together". What I like to know - since it is a response to my statement about being "moderate when hating" - would you prefer a heated debate, where both sides use a practice of defending their point no matter what, or something less passionate?

I am not saying that passion in a relationship is a bad thing. Hating is just not the best way to show it.

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

As for actions in an argument........

Example: Someone you know says "I hate you"......but he/she is hugging you. I'd actually considered that cute and funny. Kinda like "I don't want your pizza".
But he/she snatches the one you're about to eat.......okay I realized I was hungry while posting this

Its meant to tease someone, but backfires as something the other person likes... sounds familiar.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Spoiler for very opinionated:

In the end, no matter how sugarcoated things are, us defects shouldn't have been born. We are liabilities. We aren't wanted, we aren't needed in the least. People don't need to understand us, it's their obligation not to even bother with us.

If you aren't born fully functional, you aren't worth the trouble.
If you aren't born with the expected abilities, you might as well die because the world won't want you.

Who would want to start a relationship with one of us anyways? It's a empty notion of either misplaced affectations or simple pity if it does happen.

In the end, no matter how beautiful or eloquent the words, defects are defects. Just like an animal with a degenerating disease eating away at them - don't torture them by keeping them alive.

And so, don't bother try being happy. Just live life and be done with it. Nothing 'special' or 'unique' about us besides our disgusting birthrights. And if it's something that can be hereditary, for what little humanity you do have... don't go reproducing. The bottom line is this world doesn't need defects.

All I have to say about that is that it's a sad tale to see at 19 when you've barely began living.
You're only now just exiting from the most dysfunctional decade of a human's lifespan (teens) and stepping into the 20's where as times goes on the world and the people around you will change.
Being in one's 20's has a nice, calmer vibe where more people are finally settled and content with themselves and focus on what they want or don't want in life.
In other words people get on with it. Life priorities change, responsibilities increase and there's less time for mind games and pettiness.

All I can say is, don't keep your resolve to the point that you deliberately slam the door shut in front of someone who can truly accept you as you are or keep it shut just to wallow in misery that you know.
To experience an alternative, you'd need to take the chance.
Perhaps at 19 and your memories of pain, you can't give a toss, but engage in the things that you love hobby wise, enjoy life as you know it and sometimes that attracts and alerts the right people to you.

If you're gonna be all broody and scary, then naturally you'll scare the good peeps away.
Just something to think over

[Kafriel]

Who would want to start a relationship with one of us anyways?

Another one of you. I got a friend who was left disables by a doctor's mistake when he was less than a month old and resulted in leg paralysis. Besides walking (which he can do but is just very hard), he's normal in every other way, has friends, a relationship, proper education;everything the rest of us got.

If you're gonna be all broody and scary, then naturally you'll scare the good peeps away.

Gotta second that

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Spoiler for very opinionated:

In the end, no matter how sugarcoated things are, us defects shouldn't have been born. We are liabilities. We aren't wanted, we aren't needed in the least. People don't need to understand us, it's their obligation not to even bother with us.

If you aren't born fully functional, you aren't worth the trouble.
If you aren't born with the expected abilities, you might as well die because the world won't want you.

Who would want to start a relationship with one of us anyways? It's a empty notion of either misplaced affectations or simple pity if it does happen.

In the end, no matter how beautiful or eloquent the words, defects are defects. Just like an animal with a degenerating disease eating away at them - don't torture them by keeping them alive.

And so, don't bother try being happy. Just live life and be done with it. Nothing 'special' or 'unique' about us besides our disgusting birthrights. And if it's something that can be hereditary, for what little humanity you do have... don't go reproducing. The bottom line is this world doesn't need defects.

Mystique pretty much nailed all I wanted to say (lucky for you, because after reading this I was ready to rant), so all I'll say is this: after reading your opinion, I don't think the problem is that you're disabled. I think the real problem is that you're afraid to open up to people out of fear of being hurt. So you do the job for them by slamming the door shut.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Agreed on that point immensly, some people even have trouble conveying their thoughts into words to try to break down reasons they're together, yet couples and relationships can last without always touching base with each other or establishing the reason why they work, they just try to continue supporting each other through Life and enjoy their time together.
Not saying that Lio's points were wrong but it's not the be all and end all as he feels strongly about.

Statistically speaking, it's likely there are couples that "just work" without having to work, or wonder why they are together; they just click together that well. Where Lio is coming from, and to a degree me as well, is that is NOT something you should count on. To get by in life, you can count on winning the lottery, or get a job. Which is the generally smarter method?

PS: You let me get away with being cheeky with ya, is what I meant, means I get to have a little fun with my posts without being worried about offending you. Almost a breath of fresh air, that.

That's because I don't get angry or upset much anymore, heh. No one wants others to get angry at them, so I try to practice what I preach.

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Spoiler for very opinionated:

In the end, no matter how sugarcoated things are, us defects shouldn't have been born. We are liabilities. We aren't wanted, we aren't needed in the least. People don't need to understand us, it's their obligation not to even bother with us.

If you aren't born fully functional, you aren't worth the trouble.
If you aren't born with the expected abilities, you might as well die because the world won't want you.

Who would want to start a relationship with one of us anyways? It's a empty notion of either misplaced affectations or simple pity if it does happen.

In the end, no matter how beautiful or eloquent the words, defects are defects. Just like an animal with a degenerating disease eating away at them - don't torture them by keeping them alive.

And so, don't bother try being happy. Just live life and be done with it. Nothing 'special' or 'unique' about us besides our disgusting birthrights. And if it's something that can be hereditary, for what little humanity you do have... don't go reproducing. The bottom line is this world doesn't need defects.

To contrary of the first couple of people, I don't see it as self-pitying. Probably a bit negative, but it's these kinds of things that people just can't take, because they can't be honest with themselves about how reality is. In the end, we are just a bunch of carbon units that evolved from a common ancestor to us and monkeys, still retaining a great amount of animalistic behavior. There's nothing really special about us, and if mankind died out tomorrow(or never existed), the universe would go on not caring.

That said, make what you want out of life. No guarantee you're gonna get everything you want, but everyone else is pretty much in it for themselves, so why not you, too? And if someone gets mad or upset, it's just because they are not advanced enough, still mired in evolutionary baggage.

And in the end, people really don't care about you, only what you can do for them. I can point to several examples myself, but there's no need since everyone has experienced it. I had this debate on another forum, but "altruism" technically doesn't exist, since everything someone does is mandated by a form of selfishness.

You can see it in the responses you've gotten. People won't like you for the opinions you hold, especially if they clash with their own opinions. And it's pretty hard for them to let someone go on living if that person thinks differently then them.

Because xkcd is always relevant:
http://xkcd.com/386/

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

To contrary of the first couple of people, I don't see it as self-pitying. Probably a bit negative, but it's these kinds of things that people just can't take, because they can't be honest with themselves about how reality is. In the end, we are just a bunch of carbon units that evolved from a common ancestor to us and monkeys, still retaining a great amount of animalistic behavior. There's nothing really special about us, and if mankind died out tomorrow(or never existed), the universe would go on not caring.

That said, make what you want out of life. No guarantee you're gonna get everything you want, but everyone else is pretty much in it for themselves, so why not you, too? And if someone gets mad or upset, it's just because they are not advanced enough, still mired in evolutionary baggage.

And in the end, people really don't care about you, only what you can do for them. I can point to several examples myself, but there's no need since everyone has experienced it. I had this debate on another forum, but "altruism" technically doesn't exist, since everything someone does is mandated by a form of selfishness.

You can see it in the responses you've gotten. People won't like you for the opinions you hold, especially if they clash with their own opinions. And it's pretty hard for them to let someone go on living if that person thinks differently then them.

That seems like a facile approach to deflecting criticism. The irony is that you're talking about people 'not being able to handle' another's opinions, but on the spectrum of receptiveness, being willing to engage another's idea in disagreement is much further towards the receptive side than dismissing their idea by saying they are 'not advanced enough'.

Additionally, the whole 'no such thing as altruism' line is a bit untenable, don't you think? You can insist that at it's core, the desire to make someone else happy is selfish because the reason we do it is for our own happiness, but if you were to do that, you'd just be needlessly pedantic. The point at which a selfish desire promotes an altruistic tendency is the point at which it becomes effectively altruistic. In point of fact, this actually makes altruistic action even more amazing. For example, my girlfriend could get her self-gratification any number of ways. That she feels that my happiness is one of the things that her happiness should derive from is an enormous compliment.

Those two points being made...

Originally Posted by Arbitres

In the end, no matter how sugarcoated things are, us defects shouldn't have been born. We are liabilities. We aren't wanted, we aren't needed in the least. People don't need to understand us, it's their obligation not to even bother with us.

If you aren't born fully functional, you aren't worth the trouble. If you aren't born with the expected abilities, you might as well die because the world won't want you.

Who would want to start a relationship with one of us anyways? It's a empty notion of either misplaced affections or simple pity if it does happen.

In the end, no matter how beautiful or eloquent the words, defects are defects. Just like an animal with a degenerating disease eating away at them - don't torture them by keeping them alive.

And so, don't bother try being happy. Just live life and be done with it. Nothing 'special' or 'unique' about us besides our disgusting birthrights. And if it's something that can be hereditary, for what little humanity you do have... don't go reproducing. The bottom line is this world doesn't need defects.

Ignoring my other objections to it, this viewpoint doesn't even make sense. On what are you predicating it? Even if you accept the notion that human beings are just the sum of their biological components, a direct result of the way our brains are built is that we have a complex, layered psychology--both individually and socially--that produces many individuals who do not judge people on their fitness for survival or reproduction.

There are extreme cases, sure, but the majority of disabled people are not so disabled as to be unable to live a fulfilling life, with or without a relationship. Sure, it puts limits on what goals you can pursue to find that fulfillment, but you know what? Even the healthiest and wealthiest people have limits on what they can do. Part of leading a happy life is coming to peace with those limitations and learning how to function best within them.