2010-08-22, 18:03 | Link #641 | ||||||
Local Crackpot
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Theoretically, the siblings could very well claim that they were bribed. Quote:
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Hell, the family ring should be more than enough, unless someone claims Yasu pried it off his cold dead hands.
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Last edited by Helmet-kun; 2010-08-22 at 18:12. Reason: Clarification |
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2010-08-22, 18:20 | Link #642 |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Genji claimed there was a will and it could worded so that Kinzo could have written it before knowing of Yasu's existence.
Anyone who knows Kinzo would know his seal is the seal of the head of the family. Since no one knows Kinzo is dead, that letter would in all likelihood be assumed to be his. Finally, anyone buying the type of gold, even if Kinzo is selling it, should be willing to buy it off of anyone. This gold should be assumed to have not been obtained through legitimate measures. I have a question and it is based on what wasn't addressed instead of what was. Why was Battler's birth secret not explained? If it was about Kyrie being his mother, then Rudolph probably should have said something in Bern's truth. Furthermore, if it were Kyrie, then why would Rudolph bring it up in episode 5 after Battler found the gold. Note: There is a chance that it was addressed in episode 7 and ATLAS failed me, but feel free to say so if it was.
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2010-08-22, 18:20 | Link #643 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Letters from Beatrice are signed by Beatrice, and while family members suspect authorship of the text to be his, or believe the seal on the letters to be a sign of his approval, nobody ever claims it was his handwriting. In fact, no sample of handwriting attributed directly to Kinzo's own hand actually ever pops up.
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2010-08-22, 18:45 | Link #644 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I was talking about letters that were suppose to have been written by 'Kinzo' that imply that Yasu is the sole benefactor of Kinzo's fortune. However, it could be disproven if some reliable source (like his notes) showed a different writing style, thus proving that the letters were forged.
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2010-08-22, 18:46 | Link #645 | ||||||
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The siblings could claimed they were bribed, but this brings up a big hole. 1.) Genji has faithfully served Kinzo for a long amount of time, and it would be hard to imagine a bribe made him go against Kinzo. 2.) Genji has also served the siblings, much more so then he serves Yasu. Nanjo very well could be bribed. This alone, is not enough, but then there are the other points. Quote:
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Krauss is someone who, while he has a lot of experience in business, has failed a multitude of times. And he has never produced a gold ingot that we know of. Yasu, on the other hand, can freely produce as many gold ingots as she needs to prove she knows the location of them. This doesn't prove she 'owns' them, but to lenders, it would be a lot more satisfying working with her then with Krauss. Esspecially if point 2 is true, in which she has Kinzo's word of reliability. Quote:
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And then, if they did have suspicions of forgery, they wouldn't do handwriting tests when they could just ask Kinzo. This would put Krauss in a tight spot. He either says 'Yes my father did write that letter', or he says 'no my father did not write that letter'. The former's implications are obvious. The latter, the person asking would want to speak with Kinzo directly. Which is obviously not possible, because Kinzo is dead. And this risks exposing what he's been doing. |
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2010-08-22, 18:55 | Link #646 |
Awakened One
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
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I have read a few pages of interesting discussion about the fairness of Ryukishi as a mistery writer and I mostly agree with "Will Wright" that he hasn't been fair.
Assuming that the Episode 7 Tea Party is the real Truth of Rokkenjima, then please explain to me what was the purpose of Episode 1&2, in which Kyrie and Rudolph die on the first twilight. Those initial episodes are just misleading. The only arcs that resemble the Truth are Episode 3 and a part of Episode 4 (the cousins' trial). Since all the Question Arcs are forgeries, the reader could come up with N different theories all equally valid until Ryukishi "opened the cat box". I don't think that the clues presented in Episodes 1-4 were enough to reach a single uncontestable theory, aka the solution. We could only make a guess and then Ryukishi in Episode 7 told us which of us guessed right.
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2010-08-22, 18:59 | Link #647 | |
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Kyrie being the culprit of the tea party was only after the gold was discovered, so in other words, someone else is probably Beatrice and the killer from Episodes 1 and 2. |
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2010-08-22, 19:04 | Link #648 | |
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Considering he has lived that kind of life from when he moved to Rokkenjima, he would have probably had Genji write his correspondences down, while actuall notes written down by him were kept in his private study. There would also be no 'signature' as we would expect by todays standards, because Japanese use stamps to sign letters and contracts. So it would be very hard to come up with a document which containes, without any doubt, the handwriting of Kinzo.
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2010-08-22, 19:12 | Link #649 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Any inheritance-related claims are going to fail because according to all information we have, no one publically knows Kinzo is dead until the Rokkenjima Incident. So a plan that relies on inheritance won't fly, but a plan that exploits the assumption Kinzo is still alive could work. Of course, I have no clue whether that would work, but at this point I'm about willing to bet it's some implausible stupidity on the part of some banks somewhere.
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2010-08-22, 19:17 | Link #650 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I wonder if the Head Ring is Kinzo's legally registered seal by any chance. That would immediately make the ring magnitudes more important as long as Kinzo is assumed to be alive.
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2010-08-22, 19:27 | Link #654 | |
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What is the reason for sending at least two bottle letters out? Because there were 2 basic ways that the incident was supposed to transpire, even though Battler's presence made it worse than it had to. One Episode might show us a possiblity where nobody solved the Epitaph at all and 'Beatrice' goes around the island and kills. One Episode might show us somebody solving the epitaph and, as the plan originally proposed, that person becoming the accomplice of the culprit and inheriting all the gold. But of course Yasu never imagined anybody surviving because Battler's sin demands that everybody will die (as said by Episode 4). Then we have Episode 3 which is constructing a possibility of events from the other side, by looking at what is LEFT after the incident. And of course, because Eva is alive and has succeded the Ushiromiya name, has the ring and the fortune, she has to be the culprit. And then there is Episode 4 and honestly...I don't have any idea what purpose it serves at all. It is neither canonical towards the truth before the incident (Beatrice is not actively murdering) nor the truth of after the incident (which would include Eva surviving). Somehow there is something terribly wrong with Episode 4, even more than I had noticed before.
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2010-08-22, 19:30 | Link #655 | ||
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Much like how a parent can give their business over to a child, I would imagine a living parent could give their assets to their child (or anyone, really). Actually, if he is alive, it wouldn't be inheritance, but transferring. Or at least, that's how I assume it works. Quote:
Actually, there's another theory I have, where 'the Epitaph is solved' is true in all world (which is why I added maybe). In Episode 1, Krauss shows Natsuhi the gold, so at the very least he knows the gold exists. In Episode 2, the church has 3 ingots, which means that someone had to have taken at least 2 from where the gold is (and this is never done again in any other episodes.). In Episode 3, we actually see the epitaph being solved. In Episode 4, someone comes out as 'Kinzo'. If someone solved the epitaph, and showed proof of that, it would be easy to see others acknowledging them. Battler coming back to the island and started asking about Beatrice and the portrait made everyone start looking at the epitaph again. In other words, I don't really think Yasu/Beatrice is responsible for any killings, except the 9th twilight, and maybe the first twilight of Episode 3. For the bottles, I always assumed several different ones were sent out, and a lot were just never recovered (I may be forgetting if it said specifically there were 'two'). It's also noteworthy that, according to the tea party, Yasu has several guns that she freely gives to the adults. And they never have these guns before they solve the epitaph. So while Yasu says she planned on killing everyone, the question is, is there ever a world where she actually gets the chance to. Well, that's just one thing I considered. Last edited by crazysjd89; 2010-08-22 at 19:43. |
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2010-08-22, 19:40 | Link #656 | |
Local Crackpot
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In other words, I don't think that the Culprit wants the gold at all- and really, really despises Eva.
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2010-08-22, 19:42 | Link #657 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Turns out that up until 2005 or so, Japan had the highest inheritance tax in the world, which, once it passes about 300 million yen, reaches 70%. (50% now) It is paid on valuation of property, and needs to be paid in full before you can sell anything. Pretty much whatever Kinzo owned, starting from real estate (Rokkenjima) and ending with whatever companies he might own a share in would well exceed that amount in non-liquid property, and with Krauss embezzling, this tax is impossible to honestly pay in practice. Naturally, ways to sidestep this tax exist, and up until the 90s, the practical way to do it was to create a limited liability company, (a holding company) and make it own your property instead of yourself, then play around with the valuation of that company, or owning shares of that company in trust of the beneficiary of your will (so that the moment you're dead, the one you will it to owns it instantly and no transfer according to the will takes place) and other legal juggling. Even if that wasn't the problem, and the company was actually valued so low that no tax of note would need to be paid on it, the law still provides for reserved portions for the immediate registered family of the deceased, from 30% to 50% of the entire set, to be shared equally between them. There is essentially no way in hell for Kinzo to leave everything to a single specific person with a legal will, he has to employ a mechanism that bypasses inheritance law in one way or another.
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2010-08-22, 19:55 | Link #658 | |
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Heh, I knew about inheritance tax, but I didn't know it was that high, nor that you had to pay that tax first. And so I assume with gold, they would estimate the tax based on the current value of gold, as opposed to taking the gold bars? Then I guess more or less it would be a question of if Kinzo came up with someway to avoid paying inheritance, or if people lending money to Yasu are willing to risk in embezzling to get the gold. |
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2010-08-22, 20:07 | Link #659 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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So the gold officially doesn't exist, you can't officially sell it, it's bloody hard to securely transport and trying to carelessly exploit it makes it vanish... sounds like someone we know, actually...
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2010-08-22, 21:20 | Link #660 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Generally, anything written by Ellery Queen. His works were the ultimate fair mystery, even outright challenging you to solve it before the detective did. The Egyptian Cross Mystery comes to mind, as it was one of the first I read. Quote:
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Cruel Ex Machina happens, he has an asthma attack and dies because of contrived reason X. This satisfies "there can be only one culprit" and Eva surviving. It also satisfies Knox's 8th for foreshadowing, as the definition of foreshadowing is very loose here. Oh and he did every single murder with the use of small bombs. Even the stabbings. The small bombs propelled the knives after the explosion. His investment was in the industry of small bombs. Quote:
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...Hang on a second. Just had a crazy thought. I think if my theory is right someone else would have noticed it by now, but...Eh worth a shot. Time to re-read Umineko 1-4! Quote:
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Twisted arguments that cannot be(as of now) disproved do exist. Quote:
Her opponent could have been Shannon-Beatrice, then Krauss caught her off guard and shot her. Moreover, we did not see the actual duel. It could have happened in a way different from what we expected. Krauss could have disguised himself. A thousand possibilities! |
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