Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[RAVNEN]

Originally Posted by Galerian

Or he'll sacrifies himself to enable that new world to exist. Not wanting to live in said world, but acknowledging the need for it to become reality.

Oh my,now I see Rey Za Burrel linger in front of my TV. Interesting theory I must say.Ali sacrifice himself for a better world,sound more like one of the Innovators.Can't wait to see how Sergei & his friend Herc deal with those coup de tat.

[kakakka]

I’m wondering if Sumeragi’s plan to infiltrate the ALAW’s banquet had Ribbons as the mark or if only Tieria knows Ribbons’ identity…

I don't think she knows Ribbons as the Top head behind A-Laws. The mission is to find out the identity of those leaders of the military group. However, Tieria suspecting Ribbons right away is a bit surprising to me.

It seemed to me the observers knew all the pertinent info on the current meisters…Ribbons being the O Gundam pilot just kinda makes your eyes get wide and you start thinking about how that’s possible…

I think they don't know all of it. They just know them (performance) based on the missions. I doubt they really know the Meister's identity.

[Galerian]

Originally Posted by kakakka

A hero's end?

Anyway, I think "Ali personifies everything CB is trying to change in the world, and thus he won't be killed" has already been done in the end of the first season. We know their "Elimination of All the Wars" didn't bear good fruit in Season 1; and Ali (and Graham) being alive are the proof.

I wouldn't want to call Ali a hero in that scenario as any possible self-sacrifice from his part will be uttterly egocentric. Fighting (and defeating) the last boss because it is the last game in town before peace truly settles in. Or something. He wouldn't really have to see the need for a better world though in such a case, but it would be potent if he did.

I think it hasn't been done before though. The world didn't change at all imo. It just went one with business as usual, be it with a different geopolitical map.

[tanqexe]

Given Ali's bloodthirsty warmongering and profiteering ways, I doubt he'd sacrifice himself for world peace...he'd be out of a job. How's he gonna pay for his quadrennial shave?

[kakakka]

Originally Posted by Galerian

I think it hasn't been done before though. The world didn't change at all imo. It just went one with business as usual, be it with a different geopolitical map.

That was the point. CB's mission was to discourage war and encourage the top countries to disarm themselves. But nothing really happened, except that they allied within themselves and used GN-Drived MS for their operations.

Ali being the symbol of war (or symbol for those driving force behind wars), didn't die and survived Zwei's explosion.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by tanqexe

I dunno if the animators were thinking that hard to create subtle effects like that...Occam's razor would dictate that it's just red GN particles. It's certainly not like the sunlight example you give, though - the pistol and particle exhaust from it were both in the cast shadow. Watching the scene in HD, I'm pretty sure there was no smoke from the pistol, only shining particles.

You know what, it doesn't really matter too much if Ali's bullets had gunpowder or red GN particles as propellant. All that really affects is the bullet's exit speed from the barrel. Unless the bullet is encased with very concentrated GN particles or something like that, Setsuna's wound and pain is only from a bullet puncture to his body, not from the effects of the propellant GN particles themselves.

Now I don’t really know this Occam guy or the ability of his bankai when his zangpaktou is turned into a razor^^, but I don’t think this is just a “simply is as simple does” situation…You’d be surprised at the amount of $hit animators, writers, or producers throw into their works to make their fans go nuts…Also the gunsmoke argument is supposed to be meant within an instant, so offscreen you never see the smoke just the result of the particles now being visible from the extreme heat the gun let off(If not a combination of both)…A simple production error can’t really be ruled out either…So again, once you start getting all technical here you kinda belabor the point (if there is a point)…I just wanted to offer a viewpoint since this topic seems to have run supreme for most of the thread…Most honest belief is that this may all be ignored next week…

[TooPurePureBoy]

Man the action of this series keeps getting better and better. My tummy still gets sad whenever I see Louise and Saji but other than that this series gets a thumbs up from me as always!

[tanqexe]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Now I don’t really know this Occam guy or the ability of his bankai when his zangpaktou is turned into a razor^^, but I don’t think this is just a “simply is as simple does” situation…You’d be surprised at the amount of $hit animators, writers, or producers throw into their works to make their fans go nuts…Also the gunsmoke argument is supposed to be meant within an instant, so offscreen you never see the smoke just the result of the particles now being visible from the extreme heat the gun let off(If not a combination of both)…A simple production error can’t really be ruled out either…So again, once you start getting all technical here you kinda belabor the point (if there is a point)…I just wanted to offer a viewpoint since this topic seems to have run supreme for most of the thread…Most honest belief is that this may all be ignored next week…

The only recent instance in which we did see smoke from a pistol was when Sergei fired his gun into the air, declaring Soma Peiris was dead. The smoke trail lasted for a good couple seconds, too. Maybe this time Ali's gun was a production error, who knows, it could've been a subtle mistake. However, in the event that it wasn't a mistake, I find it unlikely that the origin of the particles was anywhere other than from the barrel. If GN particles flare up from heat as you describe, then when Ali lowered his gun there would have been a trail of visible particles from the heat convection of the nozzle. Instead, we see a finite stream of the particles, the last of which was already out of the nozzle and floating up while Ali was in the process of lowering the gun. I don't think Krugis climate is cold enough to cool or siphon off the barrel's heat so quickly.

But yeah like I've been trying to say, GN particle propelled or not the gun "smoking" scene is pretty trivial. This is the first time we've observed this phenomenon, so all we can do is make a good guess. We're not even sure about the extent of Setsuna's injuries, other than that it's not-so-fatal. Bet it hurts like hell, but probably not impairing.

[Galerian]

Originally Posted by kakakka

That was the point. CB's mission was to discourage war and encourage the top countries to disarm themselves. But nothing really happened, except that they allied within themselves and used GN-Drived MS for their operations.

Ali being the symbol of war (or symbol for those driving force behind wars), didn't die and survived Zwei's explosion.

Though so Sorry for the misunderstanding

[RDF2050]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

& that would probably be Tieria's revenge.

At last someone who support me

Tiera vs. Ali "The Lockul Revenge" Coming Soon in Gundam Episodes

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

& that would probably be Tieria's revenge.

No doubt about that for me. Ali is only living long enough for Tieria to take him out . Probably in some major conflict that ends with his unit in terrible shape. Already made his stance to the Innovators and settling things with Ali is next on the agenda.

Originally Posted by RAVNEN

Oh my,now I see Rey Za Burrel linger in front of my TV. Interesting theory I must say.Ali sacrifice himself for a better world,sound more like one of the Innovators.Can't wait to see how Sergei & his friend Herc deal with those coup de tat.

Yeah honestly can't see Ali sacrificing himself for anything. Just wants to go around fight, kill, and get paid. Willingly dying would make doing all of those things difficult.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Now I don’t really know this Occam guy or the ability of his bankai when his zangpaktou is turned into a razor^^, but I don’t think this is just a “simply is as simple does” situation…You’d be surprised at the amount of $hit animators, writers, or producers throw into their works to make their fans go nuts…Also the gunsmoke argument is supposed to be meant within an instant, so offscreen you never see the smoke just the result of the particles now being visible from the extreme heat the gun let off(If not a combination of both)…A simple production error can’t really be ruled out either…So again, once you start getting all technical here you kinda belabor the point (if there is a point)…I just wanted to offer a viewpoint since this topic seems to have run supreme for most of the thread…Most honest belief is that this may all be ignored next week…

Pretty sure the shot was offscreen so they could have the silly suspense of who got shot and not to make any debate about GN particles coming out of the gun. Oh well don't think its a big deal anyways unless there was something done to the bullets so the red particles have a worsening effect. More than likely it will just be left alone and all the talk about it really won't be dealt with .

[tanqexe]

Lol I just noticed this:

Spoiler:

Top left says: "Many broken pieces"

The MS onboard sensor is just so helpful.

MSCARS = mobile suit computer access/retrieval system?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

When I first saw all that, I thought it was all the escape shuttles from episode 12. Whatever happened to them?

[tanqexe]

Allelujah said he successfully escorted the shuttles to another base and told Mileina that her mom's safe.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

When I first saw all that, I thought it was all the escape shuttles from episode 12. Whatever happened to them?

See above, the shuttles were safely escorted to another base.

And they're obviously debris from the Ptolemy, since that's where Setsuna was supposed to meet with the Ptolemy afterall.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

See above, the shuttles were safely escorted to another base.

And they're obviously debris from the Ptolemy, since that's where Setsuna was supposed to meet with the Ptolemy afterall.

Well I didn't know that at first cause I saw the episodes without subtitles first.

[Jays]

Today on the subway I had a sort of epiphany - probably a stupid one too - but here it is.

Ribbons says to Setsuna that he (Ribbons) was supposed to be the pilot of the 00. Question is though, how can that be? Ribbons had no idea that Trans-Am or the Twin Drive System existed, moreover he was completely oblivious to the 00-Raiser being capable of quantimization. Think about it for a second - here's my flawed train of thought:

1. Had no idea that Trans-Am even exist - stated by Regene.
2. Since he had no idea of that, then he is oblivious to any and all abilities that Gundams could have while in said state.
3. Therefore even if he knew that you could increase the topological effect of the GN Drives by putting two together, he wouldn't have known that the 00 was able to perform quantimization (man I'm butchering the spelling of this word)
4. However, this is key here, he has no idea that you can even increase the topological by synchronizing two GN Drives.
5. Therefore how would he know that he was supposed to be the pilot of this suit? Is he saying this out of pure arrogance, seeing as only a higher being was supposed to pilot a suit like that? Moreover, he knew nothing, absolutely nothing on these things even from searching Veda, so really who is Ribbons?

It hit me, perhaps the original four Gundam Miesters were supposed to have been Innovators? What IF - big if and huge speculation on my part - Ribbons was supposed to have been the pilot of the Exia? What if Ribbons was supposed to be have been scrapped along with Celestial Being? He himself says that he was the one who recommended to Veda that Setsuna be one of the Miesters, but really how could he have? He must have been in Celestial Being at one point, but then how did he get out of it. Maybe Ribbons has always excercized some form of control or Veda; maybe a jealous and bitter Ribbons decided after figuring out that he was ment to be a dead heap anyways to take control of the whole plan and become the leader of the new world.

Or perhaps had he not found out about that information he would have been in Setsuna's place and really would have been the pilot of the 00. Of course this also brings up the question, what is Tieria and Innovator, doing with Celestial Being, why didn't Ribbons bring him along as well? Why doesn't Tieria have any knowledge of who he really is from a grander perspective? Was it to ensure that at least CB got the point of destruction by at least having one highly skilled Innovator - unbeknownst to him that he is - to lead them? Soo many questions!

I'm still trying to understand what I wrote myself, but yeah this just something that hit me. It's all pure speculation, but yeah rip it away.

[monir]

I hereby apologize for referrring to Lacus as "he." I'm so sorry. Please KiNA, stop the e-bombing.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

If you're not careful, you might end up posting some of those "interesting" pictures that you've been hiding away.

Sir, I would like that very much, if you can catch my drift.

To the Gundam-fans, I promise this will be the last time I'll go off-topic in this thread.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Jays

Today on the subway I had a sort of epiphany - probably a stupid one too - but here it is.

Ribbons says to Setsuna that he (Ribbons) was supposed to be the pilot of the 00. Question is though, how can that be? Ribbons had no idea that Trans-Am or the Twin Drive System existed, moreover he was completely oblivious to the 00-Raiser being capable of quantimization. Think about it for a second - here's my flawed train of thought:

1. Had no idea that Trans-Am even exist - stated by Regene.
2. Since he had no idea of that, then he is oblivious to any and all abilities that Gundams could have while in said state.
3. Therefore even if he knew that you could increase the topological effect of the GN Drives by putting two together, he wouldn't have known that the 00 was able to perform quantimization (man I'm butchering the spelling of this word)
4. However, this is key here, he has no idea that you can even increase the topological by synchronizing two GN Drives.
5. Therefore how would he know that he was supposed to be the pilot of this suit? Is he saying this out of pure arrogance, seeing as only a higher being was supposed to pilot a suit like that? Moreover, he knew nothing, absolutely nothing on these things even from searching Veda, so really who is Ribbons?

It hit me, perhaps the original four Gundam Miesters were supposed to have been Innovators? What IF - big if and huge speculation on my part - Ribbons was supposed to have been the pilot of the Exia? What if Ribbons was supposed to be have been scrapped along with Celestial Being? He himself says that he was the one who recommended to Veda that Setsuna be one of the Miesters, but really how could he have? He must have been in Celestial Being at one point, but then how did he get out of it. Maybe Ribbons has always excercized some form of control or Veda; maybe a jealous and bitter Ribbons decided after figuring out that he was ment to be a dead heap anyways to take control of the whole plan and become the leader of the new world.

Or perhaps had he not found out about that information he would have been in Setsuna's place and really would have been the pilot of the 00. Of course this also brings up the question, what is Tieria and Innovator, doing with Celestial Being, why didn't Ribbons bring him along as well? Why doesn't Tieria have any knowledge of who he really is from a grander perspective? Was it to ensure that at least CB got the point of destruction by at least having one highly skilled Innovator - unbeknownst to him that he is - to lead them? Soo many questions!

I'm still trying to understand what I wrote myself, but yeah this just something that hit me. It's all pure speculation, but yeah rip it away.

Yeah, arrogance for sure. Ribbons has an overactive ego.

[LordStrike]

Originally Posted by Jays

Today on the subway I had a sort of epiphany - probably a stupid one too - but here it is.

Ribbons says to Setsuna that he (Ribbons) was supposed to be the pilot of the 00. Question is though, how can that be? Ribbons had no idea that Trans-Am or the Twin Drive System existed, moreover he was completely oblivious to the 00-Raiser being capable of quantimization. Think about it for a second - here's my flawed train of thought:

1. Had no idea that Trans-Am even exist - stated by Regene.
2. Since he had no idea of that, then he is oblivious to any and all abilities that Gundams could have while in said state.
3. Therefore even if he knew that you could increase the topological effect of the GN Drives by putting two together, he wouldn't have known that the 00 was able to perform quantimization (man I'm butchering the spelling of this word)
4. However, this is key here, he has no idea that you can even increase the topological by synchronizing two GN Drives.
5. Therefore how would he know that he was supposed to be the pilot of this suit? Is he saying this out of pure arrogance, seeing as only a higher being was supposed to pilot a suit like that? Moreover, he knew nothing, absolutely nothing on these things even from searching Veda, so really who is Ribbons?

It hit me, perhaps the original four Gundam Miesters were supposed to have been Innovators? What IF - big if and huge speculation on my part - Ribbons was supposed to have been the pilot of the Exia? What if Ribbons was supposed to be have been scrapped along with Celestial Being? He himself says that he was the one who recommended to Veda that Setsuna be one of the Miesters, but really how could he have? He must have been in Celestial Being at one point, but then how did he get out of it. Maybe Ribbons has always excercized some form of control or Veda; maybe a jealous and bitter Ribbons decided after figuring out that he was ment to be a dead heap anyways to take control of the whole plan and become the leader of the new world.

Or perhaps had he not found out about that information he would have been in Setsuna's place and really would have been the pilot of the 00. Of course this also brings up the question, what is Tieria and Innovator, doing with Celestial Being, why didn't Ribbons bring him along as well? Why doesn't Tieria have any knowledge of who he really is from a grander perspective? Was it to ensure that at least CB got the point of destruction by at least having one highly skilled Innovator - unbeknownst to him that he is - to lead them? Soo many questions!

I'm still trying to understand what I wrote myself, but yeah this just something that hit me. It's all pure speculation, but yeah rip it away.

something must have happen that deem the innovators not good for piloting the gundams and maybe thx to that they decided to go whit normal people as meisters and maybe the reason tieria was given an MS was to maybe if the humans decided to turn on the plan he would stop them whit the trial system