(L) Shingeki no Bahamut ~Virgin Soul~ (S2)

[Tong]

Man some of these comments, definitely it isnt a show for everyone... in the sense that you have to really think about it, rewatch many times, think some more before reaching certain conclusions. This is by no means your average shounen-like anime where you can just sit and watch while everything is spoonfed and explained to you constantly.

I admit the last episode was a little rushed, but the ending is what I was expecting and honestly it couldnt have been any different.
This show only makes sense if you have watched Genesis as well, btw.

I rate this show... 9.5/10, but watch Genesis beforehand and everything will make more sense, Virgin Soul is a sequel afterall.

[kuromitsu]

I'm not going to read back because I have a pretty good hunch as to what's been going on here in the past weeks, but I guess there may be some people here who are interested in this one detail.

There's a pretty serious translation fuck-up in this episode - well, at least one serious translation fuck-up, going by the translator's record there could very well be more, but I stopped looking at the subs after this.

Kaisar's last line - "last" - is not about death being peaceful or whatever the translator misheard and clearly didn't stop thinking about how it makes no sense in context. Kaisar is addressing Charioce and telling him to "create true peace" (真の安寧を). He's paying the price in Charioce's place (on this particular account, anyway) but in exchange he leaves him with a task to understand and honor... understand, first and foremost. It's a task fit for a better person, and while Charioce is never going to be a truly good person, in the end we see that he at least understood, and is presumably working on honoring the wish.

Kaisar and Charioce had some really nice dynamics throughout the show (understated as it was - I wish we'd seen more of it), and this, and where Charioce ended up, was a great conclusion to it. It's a pity that the translation messed this up for sub readers.

By the way if anyone is curious: unsurprisingly I loved the last episode. It was gorgeous-looking and overall lovely, and a great, bittersweet closure to the series. (Even as ultimately about an episode's worth of plot was missing from the story. I wonder what happened there and if we'll ever get the missing detail in any way.) And I really can't praise Umehara Yuuichirou and Morohoshi Sumire enough. They were fantastic, this will definitely become the definitive show for me to match their future performances against.

And with this I'm bowing out again. This show wasn't perfect, but overall I thought it was great, and so I'd rather enjoy it peacefully, without self-absorbed people calling me a Nazi apologist for liking Charioce and thinking he's a fascinating character, warts and all.

[Key Board]

There are 3 anime endings that made me go "whut...." this year
Kado, ReCreators, and now this
so yeah,congratulations I guess, Bahasoul.

but I'd still watch a third season if Favarro is a main character again

[Marcus H.]

Looks like another mass murderer got the Happy End.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Tong

Man some of these comments, definitely it isnt a show for everyone... in the sense that you have to really think about it, rewatch many times, think some more before reaching certain conclusions. This is by no means your average shounen-like anime where you can just sit and watch while everything is spoonfed and explained to you constantly.

Eh, it's really not that deep of a show. Really.

Originally Posted by Key Board

There are 3 anime endings that made me go "whut...." this year
Kado, ReCreators, and now this
so yeah,congratulations I guess, Bahasoul.

but I'd still watch a third season if Favarro is a main character again

Oh god, don't even remind me about Kado. I'm trying to burn those last few episodes from my memories. I don't think Baha is quite on that level, though it's pretty disappointing.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Looks like another mass murderer got the Happy End.

Still, I don't remember people being this salty when it happened to Vegeta, even though he did way worse genocide than Hitler . I don't even want to start counting all the planets that he blew up or races & species that he wiped out. But in the end, he got himself a smexy wife who is one of the richest people in the world, luxurious life, two healthy kids, loyal friends (which are the heroes of the story) and even another cool son from the future parallel world. Vegeta is basically spitting in the faces of all anime-heroes and their sacrifices, and looks like people are still happy with him and the DBZ story .

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Tong

Man some of these comments, definitely it isnt a show for everyone... in the sense that you have to really think about it, rewatch many times, think some more before reaching certain conclusions. This is by no means your average shounen-like anime where you can just sit and watch while everything is spoonfed and explained to you constantly.

But it did end up as a typical shounen show with that wishy washy ending where Chris gets excused of everything and demon/gods not attacking humans anymore.
For a show that has a good layer of complexity to it, they chicken out in the end by going the shounen route.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Still, I don't remember people being this salty when it happened to Vegeta, even though he did way worse genocide than Hitler . I don't even want to start counting all the planets that he blew up or races & species that he wiped out. But in the end, he got himself a smexy wife who is one of the richest people in the world, luxurious life, two healthy kids, loyal friends (which are the heroes of the story) and even another cool son from the future parallel world. Vegeta is basically spitting in the faces of all anime-heroes and their sacrifices, and looks like people are still happy with him and the DBZ story .

vegita life not was "that "easy" as charioce, he get a lot of character development, he get beaten and killed 2 times, we saw he goes from a monster to a good person which care for his family and friends, while charioce... you know... nothing..., he just was rewarded for the "lulz.
he was beaten by goku early, the only reason he still alive was because on first time goku let him leave then second time he redeemed himsel trying to protect the kids by sacrificing himself.

vegita is very different from charion in many way, while he started "evil" he later redeemed himself from his past while here "charioce was just your hittler" until the end, he don't get any "sacrifice" or anyting like that at "at best get blind" but still was the "great hero", the same goes for you know someone called altair which was a monster and don't get any real dedemption toward his actions and get his "happy ending".

that is what make the big difference, one thing is when the "scum" had a change of heart during the story" another is when the team just forcible make the character a "hero" just because they want him be the hero.

crap writing =//= from proper on screen character development and grow.

we saw vegita goes from a scum from a good person while characters like charioce we saw just he goes from a scum to a genocide, while vegita path was really hard cuz he payed a lot for his happines while again chars like charioce and altair get it for "free", heaving pay for it is =//= from freebies.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

By the way if anyone is curious: unsurprisingly I loved the last episode. It was gorgeous-looking and overall lovely, and a great, bittersweet closure to the series. (Even as ultimately about an episode's worth of plot was missing from the story. I wonder what happened there and if we'll ever get the missing detail in any way.) And I really can't praise Umehara Yuuichirou and Morohoshi Sumire enough. They were fantastic, this will definitely become the definitive show for me to match their future performances against.

And with this I'm bowing out again. This show wasn't perfect, but overall I thought it was great, and so I'd rather enjoy it peacefully, without self-absorbed people calling me a Nazi apologist for liking Charioce and thinking he's a fascinating character, warts and all.

I don't know if you'll read this post, but even though we have opposite views on the ending and Charioce's character, I was very curious to know what you thought of the ending and I missed your posts the last few weeks.

Thank you for the clarification on the translation. I knew it wasn't what Kaisar said, but I wasn't sure what exactly it was he tried to say. This ending makes a little bit more sense to me now, I couldn't understand why Charioce remained as King (the only reason he became King was to kill Bahamut, so I figured he'd bow out if he survived, it made little sense to me for him to remain King and suddenly try to make amends). It was to honor Kaisar's dying wish.

Speaking of Kaisar, am I the only one who is uncomfortable with what Rita did? It's really selfish of her, and given that she is hiding Zombie Kaisar from the others, I'm not sure he's retained his mind. I wouldn't be surprised if "FAVAROOOO!!" is the only thing he can say now, which would be both funny and incredibly sad.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by shmaster

But it did end up as a typical shounen show with that wishy washy ending where Chris gets excused of everything and demon/gods not attacking humans anymore.
For a show that has a good layer of complexity to it, they chicken out in the end by going the shounen route.

It's not really an "everybody's happy" ending, though. It seems more like a "practically nobody's happy" ending with an uneasy peace that at least allows for things to get better eventually. The men aren't oppressing the demons anymore, but even with Lucifer's brief flirtation with actually giving a damn the demon forces probably aren't in good shape. Something similar probably goes for the gods too. If they keep fighting now (and there are men who would keep fighting in Charioce's name- or in his memory, if Jeanne and Azazel had killed him) then it would just be two depleted armies duking it out over who gets to have the tragically pyrrhic victory. As a result, the gods withdraw to their sanctuary and stop giving a damn about the men; the demons, whose home was razed, warily start trying to build something where they are; the men, still led by Charioce, try to get on with their lives. Killing Charioce might have been satisfying to many in the protagonist camp but politically it probably would have been a bad thing since it might have led to a chaotic succession struggle and more death, which nobody has much stomach for at the moment.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Speaking of Kaisar, am I the only one who is uncomfortable with what Rita did? It's really selfish of her, and given that she is hiding Zombie Kaisar from the others, I'm not sure he's retained his mind. I wouldn't be surprised if "FAVAROOOO!!" is the only thing he can say now, which would be both funny and incredibly sad.

The question of Kaisar's continued sapience is indeed a bit troubling. To me his facial expression seemed a bit "empty," but at the same time that contrasted with his body language and pose, which was much more "human" than "zombie." He also had his hand back and there's the possibility that "Rocky" is no more, which might cause that affectionate brush at dinner to take on a slightly different meaning. At the moment, i'm inclined to think that Rita at least did the best she could, and if she can give a severed hand more personality than a lot of the other characters in the show, she can probably do right by Kaisar- and after the stuff she's gone through, i'm not going to begrudge her one selfish act.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by shmaster

and demon/gods not attacking humans anymore.

But you do not know that, this is an assumption. The epilogue happens basically right after the war and both sides, demons and gods, are still recovering.

We probably wont know that for real until the next season since Bahamut doesnt foreshadows future events in the last episode (remember Genesis' ending?).
And looking at how things are going so far, the next season might focus on the gods' side (S1 - demons, S2 - humans).

Originally Posted by Alhazred

It's not really an "everybody's happy" ending, though. It seems more like a "practically nobody's happy" ending with an uneasy peace that at least allows for things to get better eventually. The men aren't oppressing the demons anymore, but even with Lucifer's brief flirtation with actually giving a damn the demon forces probably aren't in good shape. Something similar probably goes for the gods too. If they keep fighting now (and there are men who would keep fighting in Charioce's name- or in his memory, if Jeanne and Azazel had killed him) then it would just be two depleted armies duking it out over who gets to have the tragically pyrrhic victory. As a result, the gods withdraw to their sanctuary and stop giving a damn about the men; the demons, whose home was razed, warily start trying to build something where they are; the men, still led by Charioce, try to get on with their lives. Killing Charioce might have been satisfying to many in the protagonist camp but politically it probably would have been a bad thing since it might have led to a chaotic succession struggle and more death, which nobody has much stomach for at the moment.

The question of Kaisar's continued sapience is indeed a bit troubling. To me his facial expression seemed a bit "empty," but at the same time that contrasted with his body language and pose, which was much more "human" than "zombie." He also had his right hand back and there's the possibility that "Rocky" is no more, which might cause that affectionate brush at dinner to take on a slightly different meaning. At the moment, i'm inclined to think that Rita at least did the best she could, and if she can give a severed hand more personality than a lot of the other characters in the show, she can probably do right by Kaisar- and after the stuff she's gone through, i'm not going to begrudge her one selfish act.

Good post, this is the kind of comment I hope to see. Actual points to support the argument.

[shmaster]

I do agree leaving Chris alive is for the better.
But with no more green stones, human has no effective way to fend off the demon or gods.
Especially the gods, where the human can't take offensive without the stones. The gods can slowly wipe the human out.
I know both side are crippled, but at equal numbers, the gods are so much stronger than human that it doesn't matter.

But what I dislike the most is the message this show is sending. It is like saying end justifies the means is okay, and the consequences are conveniently avoided.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by shmaster

I do agree leaving Chris alive is for the better.
But with no more green stones, human has no effective way to fend off the demon or gods.
Especially the gods, where the human can't take offensive without the stones. The gods can slowly wipe the human out.
I know both side are crippled, but at equal numbers, the gods are so much stronger than human that it doesn't matter.

But what I did like the most is the message this show is sending. It is like saying end justifies the means is okay, and the consequences are conveniently avoided.

The men aren't necessarily done with the ancient technology. They were able to make enough onyx soldiers and golems powered by the stones to take down the demons and assail the divine sanctuaries even before they had the information to restore Dromos, and the disintegration of Charioce's stone doesn't necessarily mean that all the others go as well. There may still be enough of the stuff waiting in the wings to wage a sustained, bloody campaign to the last man/god/demon.

I also disagree that the show is propping up the "ends justify the means" point of view, since Charioce didn't even achieve his desired end despite all the terrible things he did. Bahamut is still alive and sooner or later he is going to find out, and that will not sit well with him at all. As with the first season, the consequences are not so much avoided as postponed, and the final reckoning is still in the future.

[Sparteh]

So much to complain about that I am not even sure where to start. I will try to summarize:

Original cast - ruined. All of them lost something, except for Rita (in a way).
New characters - complete trash. Complete failure.
All those who actually deserved a happy ending, did not get one. All those who didn't and should have been killed by Bahamut instead - got. I really think that Favaro should have let Amira/Bahamut to nuke everything to oblivion. Would have been much better then seeking trash season as this.


Btw. What about Favaro's tail? I think it was completely ignored during this season...

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Alhazred

The question of Kaisar's continued sapience is indeed a bit troubling. To me his facial expression seemed a bit "empty," but at the same time that contrasted with his body language and pose, which was much more "human" than "zombie." He also had his right hand back and there's the possibility that "Rocky" is no more, which might cause that affectionate brush at dinner to take on a slightly different meaning. At the moment, i'm inclined to think that Rita at least did the best she could, and if she can give a severed hand more personality than a lot of the other characters in the show, she can probably do right by Kaisar- and after the stuff she's gone through, i'm not going to begrudge her one selfish act.

I'm certainly not going to stop loving Rita because of that. It's just that it doesn't feel right to me, especially when you know about her past. I can only hope for both her sake and Kaisar's that he is the same kind of zombie as she is, but I don't see why she would hide him from the others if it were the case. I don't think Favaro would disapprove. Maybe I'm overthinking it and he simply wasn't ready until now. He looks a lot more like Rita (even has the same bags under his eyes) than one of her zombies, which as I recall have no pupils and a darker complexion, so that's a good sign.

Damn them for making it ambiguous!

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

vegita life not was "that "easy" as charioce, he get a lot of character development, he get beaten and killed 2 times, we saw he goes from a monster to a good person which care for his family and friends, while charioce... you know... nothing..., he just was rewarded for the "lulz.
he was beaten by goku early, the only reason he still alive was because on first time goku let him leave then second time he redeemed himsel trying to protect the kids by sacrificing himself.

vegita is very different from charion in many way, while he started "evil" he later redeemed himself from his past while here "charioce was just your hittler" until the end, he don't get any "sacrifice" or anyting like that at "at best get blind" but still was the "great hero", the same goes for you know someone called altair which was a monster and don't get any real dedemption toward his actions and get his "happy ending".

that is what make the big difference, one thing is when the "scum" had a change of heart during the story" another is when the team just forcible make the character a "hero" just because they want him be the hero.

crap writing =//= from proper on screen character development and grow.

we saw vegita goes from a scum from a good person while characters like charioce we saw just he goes from a scum to a genocide, while vegita path was really hard cuz he payed a lot for his happines while again chars like charioce and altair get it for "free", heaving pay for it is =//= from freebies.

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

TL;DR…

 

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

first recognize as a "good" person or not don't means which he automatically was a "evil person" we also have "neutral peoples' which where neither totally good or evil, he was still in the transition between evil and good during the cell and buu arc, only during his firs apartion in the sayan arcs and almost all the frieza arc which he was evil, then after defeat of frieza he "stopped kill peoples" and focused on beat goku and even after killing all the peoples he was still resurrected in buu saga since he was recognized as a good after his sacrifice to save the kids.

another note he indeed killed the peoples but because he knew which they could be resurrected with the dragon balls, this was explained, he don't did for the "lulz", he did because he knew it could make goku want take him serious and that peoples could be resurrected later.

but the point is which vegita get much, much more punishment for his sins than chariot get which was almost none (only being turned blind but still being the hero).

again comparing charioce with vegita, is like comparing apples with oranges, one get almost everything he wanted and not wanted despises all his crap done in a cheap and easy way while the other get a lot of crap (being defeated, humiliated and murdered, even if what he did could diserves worst he still geont a big punishment that what "charioce get that i can say for sure.

well really looks like being a scum become cool nowadays.

[scififan]

Originally Posted by Sparteh

So much to complain about that I am not even sure where to start. I will try to summarize:

Original cast - ruined. All of them lost something, except for Rita (in a way).
New characters - complete trash. Complete failure.
All those who actually deserved a happy ending, did not get one. All those who didn't and should have been killed by Bahamut instead - got. I really think that Favaro should have let Amira/Bahamut to nuke everything to oblivion. Would have been much better then seeking trash season as this.


Btw. What about Favaro's tail? I think it was completely ignored during this season...

About Favaro's tail, Amira kissed Favaro and broke the curse that she cast on him from their first kiss.

Regarding the story, I think series was good until the last three episodes ruined it. In the first season, Rita showed up as a replaceable NPC. In this season, she finally got the personality of her own, because she had more screen time. Her stalking Favaro while dragging Kaiser's dead body around, to me, is suggesting the story is not ending yet. Maybe there will be a third season after five years?

I don't find the last battle scene interesting, but I applaud the studio's animation on Nina's waltz and the piano ending. Her first dance was an Irish folk dance and her second dance is a court dance. The last dance scene was amusing, because she was accompanying one who's unable to see, and she's unable to speak. Not many anime ended like it: Guilty Crown? Wolf's Rain?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by shmaster

It is like saying end justifies the means is okay

Well, that's exactly the problem with the show, when it comes down to it. I'm not sure what the writer was smoking to think this sort of ending was a good idea.

[Wandering Soul]

Jeanne deserved so much better. Can't believe Karma Hodiuni Charoice got away with everything with minimal consequences.