Is Kakashi a Hokage lvl ninja?

[Riku540]

Originally Posted by Nasshu

ok correct me if i am wrong but:
4th studied under 3rd hokage

Already wrong. 4th Studied under Jiraiya.

Originally Posted by Nasshu

tsuna, jiri, and oro studied under 4th

Nope. The legendary Sannin were taught by the 3rd.

Originally Posted by Nasshu

kakashi studied under 4th hokage, who studied under jiri (first choice for 5th hokage)

Huh? Doesn't this contradict your last 2 statements? You might wanna go back and revise your facts...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

So I think the debate ended up acknowledgingn Kakashi as a Kage-Level shinobi.

Spoiler for manga:

But I am wondering if that Tsunade-Jiraya conversation about Kakashi being a given actually could be hint, that Kishi wants to make Kakashi a Hokage soon. Or at least make someone offer Kakashi the title.

But honestly, I think Kakashi would decline anyway.

Spoiler for manga:

I think you may be right. If Jiraiya is going to fight his last battles then Tsunade might go out there aswell. Though fighting for revenge (assuming Jiraiya dies) rarely helps.

Kakashi up for Hokage that i'd like to see...but i doubt that. He seems just like Jiraiya. Too lazy and not suited for the job. (But besides Kakashi who is worthy to claim it??)

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Spoiler for manga:

(But besides Kakashi who is worthy to claim it??)

I wish we would see some of the "hokage candidates" that were taught by Ebisu. I doubt they are that good, but it's time we know if Ebisu is comic relief only. And since Ebisu is now on Naruto's side, it could give an interesting plotline with a master / student fight.

[seiji_kun]

So cause Jiraya / Tsunade say he is the first in line to take the hokage title atm he is worthy of the title in everybodys opinion.

It's not cause he's your first choice that he automaticly is worthy of the title.

I mean when I got Michael Jordan in my team and I got to replace him of course I want someone that is better or at least as good. But if theire just ain't nobody out that is equal to him then of course I have to choose between the left overs. And that's what Kakashi is atm, one of the best choices of a weak generation...

I mean I think we can all agree that when the 3rd died the Kage never been at the same lvl and most likely won't be as good as him till we got Naruto taking over the spot.

Spoiler:

And Kakashi, come on what did he do that was so impressive? Enlighten me guys cause he only got 1 hearth and we never saw him in a decent fight yet. Ain't gonna repeat my previous post at summing up his stupid fights. Kakashi = overrated.

Someone claimed he would win vs Itachi if it would be serious.. Do you really read the manga if you believe that? I doubt he would win vs Tsunade, at least Tsunade had the guts to take Oro on. We all know Kakashi shitted his pants when Oro mocked him.

I have no doubt he is prolly the best choice atm, and it would be perfect from him. Then at least he wouldn't be hospitalized after every serious fight. Tho I wouldn't feel comfortly with him as my hokage when some akatsuki guys show up

Spoiler for new Akatsuki:

(f.e.: Pein / Itachi / Tobi )

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

So cause Jiraya / Tsunade say he is the first in line to take the hokage title atm he is worthy of the title in everybodys opinion.

It's not cause he's your first choice that he automaticly is worthy of the title.

I mean when I got Michael Jordan in my team and I got to replace him of course I want someone that is better or at least as good. But if theire just ain't nobody out that is equal to him then of course I have to choose between the left overs. And that's what Kakashi is atm, one of the best choices of a weak generation...

I mean I think we can all agree that when the 3rd died the Kage never been at the same lvl and most likely won't be as good as him till we got Naruto taking over the spot.

[/spoiler]And Kakashi, come on what did he do that was so impressive? Enlighten me guys cause he only got 1 hearth and we never saw him in a decent fight yet. Ain't gonna repeat my previous post at summing up his stupid fights. Kakashi = overrated. [=spoiler]

Someone claimed he would win vs Itachi if it would be serious.. Do you really read the manga if you believe that? I doubt he would win vs Tsunade, at least Tsunade had the guts to take Oro on. We all know Kakashi shitted his pants when Oro mocked him.

I have no doubt he is prolly the best choice atm, and it would be perfect from him. Then at least he wouldn't be hospitalized after every serious fight. Tho I wouldn't feel comfortly with him as my hokage when some akatsuki guys show up (f.e.: Pein / Itachi / Tobi )

Hokage is "the number one ninja in the village" to quote Iruka. There is no worthy or unworthy thing to discuss here. With Jiraiya dead or away, once Tsunade dies, Kakashi automatically becomes the "number one ninja in the village".
I don't even know why this thread is so long. Jeez, if Akatsuki killed all the Jounins and Chuunins (and Naruto), Mustache Guy (or maybe Konohamaru) would be Hokage and it would be right.
For the Michael Jordan comparision, if you replace him with someone not as good as him, but with someone better than the others players of the team, you still have a "number one player in the team". You've got your hokage.

[ZGoten]

Kakashi might have "shitted his pants", but still had the guts to take on Oro, like Tsunade...
Don´t forget the fact that he has improved his skills since shippuuden...

Kakashi = totally underestimated, that´s the point.

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

So cause Jiraya / Tsunade say he is the first in line to take the hokage title atm he is worthy of the title in everybodys opinion.

It's not cause he's your first choice that he automaticly is worthy of the title.

I mean when I got Michael Jordan in my team and I got to replace him of course I want someone that is better or at least as good. But if theire just ain't nobody out that is equal to him then of course I have to choose between the left overs. And that's what Kakashi is atm, one of the best choices of a weak generation...

I mean I think we can all agree that when the 3rd died the Kage never been at the same lvl and most likely won't be as good as him till we got Naruto taking over the spot.

Spoiler:

And Kakashi, come on what did he do that was so impressive? Enlighten me guys cause he only got 1 hearth and we never saw him in a decent fight yet. Ain't gonna repeat my previous post at summing up his stupid fights. Kakashi = overrated.

Someone claimed he would win vs Itachi if it would be serious.. Do you really read the manga if you believe that? I doubt he would win vs Tsunade, at least Tsunade had the guts to take Oro on. We all know Kakashi shitted his pants when Oro mocked him.

I have no doubt he is prolly the best choice atm, and it would be perfect from him. Then at least he wouldn't be hospitalized after every serious fight. Tho I wouldn't feel comfortly with him as my hokage when some akatsuki guys show up (f.e.: Pein / Itachi / Tobi )

You don't come up with the storyboard for Naruto.

[seiji_kun]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Hokage is "the number one ninja in the village" to quote Iruka. There is no worthy or unworthy thing to discuss here.

In your opinion theire isn't.

Spoiler:

And if you say nr 1 ninja, Kakashi allready aknowledged that Naruto is stronger then himself so theire goes your shitty explanation.

Man if you take that shitty line then Oro should've became the new Hokage even with the fact that he hates Konoha. Theire are enough things to discuss lol.

You guys have really good arguements at stating Kakashis strength I got to say. Just cause they stated once that he is as smart as shika, his smell is as good as Kibas, his tajitsu > Lee, and he has the sharingan....
And he is known as the 1000 jutsu copy ninja. I mean you can have 2000 jutsus but if they are all uneffective then you are worthless. And if I saw Kakashi do 10 jutsus then it's much so far.

Just give me one example that Kakashi took someone "kage lvl" on a 1v1 and I'll stfu.

Spoiler:

And if you say Kakuzu I'm gonna laugh in your face

. Sneeking behind him ain't really that praisefull except for the fact that he could do it without any trace / sound cause that's a ninja trademark.

And the Michael Jordan arguement, let's review that. The bulls actually are one of the most shitty teams in NBA now since they lost him cause they never had a decent enough replacement. So let's put Kakashi on the kage chair and let people invade Konoha with him defending... It's stated already that a countrys strength is his forces and with him Akatsuki could just rampage Konoha. Tho I'll admit that I don't find Tsunade that powerfull either purely on what we saw so far. It means just like the Bulls Konoha should lose theire place in the ladder...
But I know this is manga and manga is fiction and things only go like the mangaka wants. Tho so far Kishi is just making a mess of it.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Well it would be quite awesome that IF any of the Sannin (and ofcourse that must include the Hokage herself) would die then let's say Naruto is claiming the title would be quite awesome. And let's say they decide in a week and Naruto is within that time preparing to prove himself. I believe Gaara did the same thing.

I dont mind if Naruto would get rejected (for not being ready yet) but that would be quite a sight. And that the new leader/hokage (let's suddenly say.... Hyuuga Hiashi becomes it) has little interest in Naruto...and he has to gain his respect by showing awesome results...that would be quite awesome .

[Kindred]

Spoiler for manga:

I think there has been a big misconception of what kakashi meant when he said naruto was "stronger" than him. In fact i recall the words being "surpassing" him. When I read that sentence I asked myself in what terms. Then I recalled that Kakashi said in earlier chapters that he could never apply element manipulation to the Rassengan (Neither Yondaime). With that connection I came to the conclusion that naruto had surpassed kakashi in element manipulation. I find this believeable, anything else is highly questionable. Kishi even went further to show how much naruto had surpassed kakashi in element manipulation by using that guy with the many hearts (forgot his name) as an example. Kakashi only managed to take out two hearts with two attacks using chidori (if memory serves rite) and naruto basically took out rest in one shot using his FRS. If that doesnt say something about the difference in element manipulation I dont know what does.

The idea that naruto has surpassed kakashi in any other terms other than strength (kyuubi is pretty crazy) and element manipulation seriously makes me question the integrity of kishi's writing.

[seiji_kun]

Spoiler for manga:

In which sections does he have to beat Kakashi till your satisfied? Intelligence? he'll never be the cool headed guy like Kakashi is. I mean Kakashi was already such a cool figure in Kakashi gaiden? loved the young Kakashi in it.

It's just his character and taking Narutos just straight on fighting style away is like revealing Kakashis face.

Well some people even say Kabuto > Kakashi or even Kabuto > Tsunade ( I guess if I hit a paralyzed Holyfield and he stays down 10 secs cause he is in shock I won to)

Well Naruto already owned him

Spoiler:

twice, first time it was a tie I guess but still thumbs up for Naruto. 2nd time two tailed Naruto just gave him a feeling of his roar and he was already down for the count. Guess two tailed Naruto = Hokage without a doubt.

Btw my opinion is. Kabuto sux and ain't special at all just so you know. He actually is really weak but I'm just putting down what most people here think. (even Kabuto himself stated that he ain't the powerhouse but just a healing nin and that makes him interesting to Oro)

[Kindred]

Spoiler for manga:

The reason why I think Kakashi is still above naruto in all terms other than strength and element manipulation is because of what we have been shown thus far. Naruto hasnt shown much of anything to make most ppl believe he has.

When oro stated kakashi and kabuto were equals that was a long time a go prior to kakashi receiving MS. I have no proof that kakshi is now vastly superior to kabuto since none has been given. But from what Jiraiya said in the latest chapters, Naruto is not ready to be hokage, Kakashi is.

[seiji_kun]

man at least back up your opinion with facts. I can't buy jack shit with opinions. How are you sure that Kakashi overall beats Naruto overall when you never seen Kakashi fight once serious except at the start of the series vs Zabuza where he was far of impressive.

Spoiler:

And his MS, what a development. A triumphcard that gives you a hospital visit. And so far we haven't seen the real strength behind it.

I'm sure Kakashi is strong but so far Kishi is really keeping everything behind him a secret. Hell I would pay to see him fight a serious fight with an Akatsuki. F.E. : zetsu or Kisamu or Pein even. But at least I ain't gonna make a conclusion from witnessing almost nothing.

Originally Posted by Kindred

The reason why I think Kakashi is still above of Naruto because of what we have been shown thus far. Naruto hasnt shown much of anything to make most ppl believe he has.

So what has been shown?

[Kindred]

I'll tell u now, if ur planning on getting heated over this I wont continue.

Spoiler for manga:

He's shown his element manipulation and that he can use the kyuubis abilities aside from the element manipulation not much has changed from part one.

I find it interesting that you didnt say anything about Jiraiya's statement

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Rahan

I wish we would see some of the "hokage candidates" that were taught by Ebisu. I doubt they are that good, but it's time we know if Ebisu is comic relief only. And since Ebisu is now on Naruto's side, it could give an interesting plotline with a master / student fight.

Well remember, Ebisu is only about kakashi's age, give or take a year or two... Anyone trained under him would probably be under 20 years old, so it's not much surprise not to see a potential Hokage yet since no student of his has matured yet (assuming he had students before Kohonhamaru)...

Ebisu does say he specializes in training those to become hokage, though he mostly learned how to become such a teacher by studing past teachers... i would guess that he has studied himself in the training methods of those like the past hokage's and Jiriaya, since they all spawned exceptional students... Kakashi probably is right when he says that Ebisu is a better teacher than himself

[seiji_kun]

I'm not getting heated over it. But if you just gonna repeat something without giving some straight facts yeah then stop discussing it.

Spoiler:

And come on Jirayas opinion is biased cause he compares him with Yondaime (have to get used to his real name ). He even witnessed his fourth tail and almost died cause of it but I agree that's a power he should stay away from. If he doesn't think 3 tails > Kakashi then I guess he did see a serious Kakashi which we haven't got the honor of yet. And he even has to be speaking bout the post time Kakashi cause I doubt he saw Kakashi in action recently.

Unkyuubified Naruto vs Kakashi guess Kakashi has sharingan which give him the advantage. Cause if Naruto can't do more damage then he can handle to see with it he ain't got nothing on him and he'll never get a Rasengan on him.
But tbh I don't think that's the case and they are just thinking bout the overall job off hokage and not pure strength. I mean I don't see like everybody else seeing Naruto beeing stuck in that tower signing papers whole day. He is a fightingoholic.

Spoiler:

Well the whole fact that you take Kakashi statement only to be about elemental manipulation is already wrong imo. I'm sure he is talking bout overall. Or why else didn't he finish off Kakuzu before Naruto showed up. If he really is that superior to him he could've take him head on like Naruto but he knows he ain't got the mass clones / frs / wittiness of Naruto so he had to "hide".

And I agree that the post Naruto and now Naruto doesn't seem that different except he is a bit more mature in his fighting.

Wish I could make shorter posts :<.

[Kindred]

Spoiler for manga:

I can't say I really understand your reasoning behind Jiraiya not being credible. If he knows both Naruto and Kakashi well enough to judge their abilities, I fail to see how he and Tsunade are bad judges of a characters overall strength.

If Kakashi meant overall then I fail to see why Jiraiya and Tsunade havent recognized this and stated that Naruto had a long way to go. Kakashi didnt even use his trump card, the MS and Kakuzu was basically log through out the whole fight with naruto so Kakashi would have hardly have missed

.

[seiji_kun]

Spoiler:

Bout the Jiraya / Tsunada conversation:
First off all hokage has more aspects then beeing a ninja and the only reason I think they say he ain't hokage material yet are other aspects. I mean they allready call him a powerhouse but just not yet hokage material.

They ain't comparing them strength wise but for the hokage title...

And even if (and that's the biggest if) they are talking strengthwise then who is the better judge to judge strengthwise.

One of the two persons himself or two outsiders who haven't seen Kakashi fight in ages. I put my money on Kakashi himself. But well you can hide after your "I think he is only thinking about developing elemental manipulation"

And how is Jirayas opinion not biased, he compares him with Namikaze Minato. His got way higher aspectations for Naruto then for Kakashi and I'm sure he still wants to see Naruto grow before he takes the hokage title. You can come up with several reasons why he states he ain't ready yet...

[yuchan]

I think the Sannins summoning abilities are very important skills they posess and use to their maximum ability. I mean, we've only seen tusnade get in 1 fight and aside from summoning Katsuyu, she had no need to summon slugs. Orochinmaru and Jiraiya summon their snakes and frogs to do many things. I don't see why Tsunade can't do the same. She probably has greater long range skills than we give her credit for. We just haven't seen them. My point is, Tsunade is the best person to be the Hokage now, not Kakashi. I think ATM, she stands a better chance against a Akastsuki alone than Kakashi.

[Kindred]

Spoiler for manga:

How does the comparison with naruto and minato make jiraiya biased? If anything it should be a good thing for naruto since naruto was able to do something neither kakashi or yondaime were capable of, yet he still thinks naruto has a long way to go.

I never said they were comparing them strength wise, in an earlier post i even said naruto would best kakashi in terms of strength so im not sure why u mentioned that. But a better judge of strength would be Tsunade, clearly.

EDIT: When you mentioned that two ppl who havent seen kakashi fight in ages I assume you were talking about Jiraiya and Tsunade?
I'll accept that as true. So considering that Jiraiya has seen more from naruto than kakashi, why does he agree with Tsunade's statement?

@yuchan: we're speaking about who's next in line after Tsunade and Jiraiya pass on, assuming indications from the latest chapter.