[Manga] Chapter 390 Discussion

[TheNewbSwordsMan]

Originally Posted by neuromancer

What I don't get is what changed from the last time Sasuke met Naruto. Sasuke said "I'm not strong enough to beat Itachi and neither is Orochimaru". But shortly afterwards Sasuke betrays Orochimaru and goes out to kill Itachi. I'm sure he already had "that jutsu" before killing Orochimaru, because he was about to use it on Naruto before Orochimaru stopped him saying "don't use that jutsu". So what happened to make Sasuke suddenly confident enough to go after Itachi in such a short time?

was it really THAT SHORT? of a time frame?
i mean, between the time naruto found sasuke, narutu learnts how to rely on his own power more and resist the urge to use kyuubi, learnt two new S ranked windbased techniques, actually learnt how to use his clone better, kill a couple akatsuki, and a whole bunch of other stuff, and by all accounts naruto is a slow learner. compared to sasuke who is a genius (so they say) if naruto can learn two S ranked jutsu's, id bet sasuke could learn a couple more under oro's guidance in that same amount of time.

[Grimkill7]

I call it the strongest non-suicide ninjutsu because nothing will ever beat Deidara's nuclear blast - 25km for Christ's sake.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan

im gonna sound like a huge newb here, but i'll say it anyways, since i am afterall the newbswordsman.


BUT, wwhhhhhhhhy do people continually refer to ameratasu (sp) as the STRONGEST NINJUTSU EVER?. the strongest SHARINGAN NINJUTSU, i would buy, the strongest FIRE type jutsu i would buy, but strongest ever? helloooooooo, madara fought the 1st hokage over control of the village, and he lost, im not positive, but i think he must have used that jutsu, (itachi did after all state that madara unlocked ALLL the secrets of the mangekyou sharingan).

now considering that Tsukuyomi was supposed to be the WORLDS GREATEST, genjutsu and it got broken, by just a normal sharingan, who is to say the sharingan doesnt have the ability to break ameratasu too, somehow some way

thats all, please dont bash me too bad, hahahaha.

No, you make several good points. There is no reason to assume that Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi are the strongest attacks in the world. They might be, as has been mentioned, the stongest Sharingan accquired attacks. But there is no reason to assume that they are the strongest respective jutsu attacks. Hell, the Rasen-Shuriken seems stronger than the Amaterasu, especially if there is a way to break or defeat the Amaterasu. I doubt there is a way to stop your molecules from seperating , which is what the Rasen-Shuriken does.

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by Rahan

He took over Orochimaru. He gained regeneration (or faster healing rate at the very least as demonstrated after the Deidara fight), and potentially more chakra and jutsus.

And anyways, most of Sasuke says turns to be bullshit.
example :" I am ready to give Oro my body if it can kill Itachi" or something like that turned into : "I have always plotted to kill you since I arrived")

Ahahaha you're right! Well said...

Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan

was it really THAT SHORT? of a time frame?
i mean, between the time naruto found sasuke, narutu learnts how to rely on his own power more and resist the urge to use kyuubi, learnt two new S ranked windbased techniques, actually learnt how to use his clone better, kill a couple akatsuki, and a whole bunch of other stuff, and by all accounts naruto is a slow learner. compared to sasuke who is a genius (so they say) if naruto can learn two S ranked jutsu's, id bet sasuke could learn a couple more under oro's guidance in that same amount of time.

It's just a few months right? Still, I guess alot of things can change. But if they don't show that something happened, or at least mention it afterwards, or even show the result of something we were totally unaware of, I just assume that everything stays the same.

[Bajan]

Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan

was it really THAT SHORT? of a time frame?
i mean, between the time naruto found sasuke, narutu learnts how to rely on his own power more and resist the urge to use kyuubi, learnt two new S ranked windbased techniques, actually learnt how to use his clone better, kill a couple akatsuki, and a whole bunch of other stuff, and by all accounts naruto is a slow learner. compared to sasuke who is a genius (so they say) if naruto can learn two S ranked jutsu's, id bet sasuke could learn a couple more under oro's guidance in that same amount of time.

LOL what? I disagree with on that one buddy. IMHO it makes absolutely no sense to compare a sharingan/rin’engan user to a 'normal' ninja i mean they can learn any technique simply by seeing it done.

[Casshern]

Rinnegan was never stated to have the copying ability. But yes, with the tajuu kage bunshin Naruto became very quick at learning jutsu.

[Grimkill7]

Naruto may be a "slow learner", but he is the fastest creator by far. So fast, I've nicknamed him God.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by Grimkill7

I call it the strongest non-suicide ninjutsu because nothing will ever beat Deidara's nuclear blast - 25km for Christ's sake.

sasuke managed to escape it and kakashi have the chance to beat it

[james0246]

With the Rinnegan I don't think you can copy, but yo canmaster any and all non-bloodline based jutsu. So, inthat respect it makes learning any jutsu eaiser...Supposedly.

[Mirtual]

Looks like the fight is going to end in the same pathetic and predictable way it started.
Sasuke kicks Itachis ass. No surpirse there.

At last Kishi did not make this plot device encounter last for too long.

The only question left is if Sasuke is going to get Itachis eyes and run around with a permanent Sharingan, becoming the offical new god of the story.

Man, honestly, if I would be paying for this, I would have stopped reading long ago. Just too curious about the end of the manga. I hate it when I don't know the end, but I am either getting to old, or the Naruto manga went quite down in term of qualitiy of stroy telling.

Mirtual

[Alleluia_Cone]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I have however a problem if this continue like that until the bitter end. I don't even particularly like Itachi and I thought he was basically done for the moment he said Madara actively participated to the Uchiha massacre but if he dies like that then it's simply not entraining for me. Watching Sasuke as a terminator would be amusing if he was fighting some secondary villains, not his murderous brother.
Itachi may have become a milestone instead of a benchmark since Madara appeared but there is a difference between a milestone and a doormat.

I completely agree with you. My thinking is that, if Itachi was to reveal that Madara actively participated in the massacre, he should have done so as he was dying, not before the fight. By going in the opposite direction, the author basically indicated beforehand the manner in which the fight was going to end. Previous to this, it was still possible that someone would intervene or that Itachi would not die as a result of the fight, but now those possibilities have been nullified. It's true that Itachi was never going to kill Sasuke, but until the moment that the Madara role was revealed, it wasn't a fact that Itachi was going to die a pathetic death; now it is all but assured.

[TheNewbSwordsMan]

Originally Posted by Bajan

LOL what? I disagree with on that one buddy. IMHO it makes absolutely no sense to compare a sharingan/rin’engan user to a 'normal' ninja i mean they can learn any technique simply by seeing it done.

lol, dude, how long was naruto using kage bunshin b4 he realised that u could actually LEARN FROM UR CLONE, anything that it has seen when it returns to your body? 2 and a half yearssssssssssss.and kakashi had to TELL HIM so, trust me, hes a slow learner.

how did he learn that jutsu? he read it from a hidden technique scroll.

how did he come up with wind release:rashen shuriken? and wind release: rasengan? kakashi and yamato babied him into it, had to break it down to the dumbest lvl possible, before he would even grasp the fact that there are more than one types of chakra.

im not saying he isnt a strong ninja and when he DOES learn the techniques they are all badass, I LOVE ME SOME NARUTO, even more than sasuke, but you cant possibly argue with me, that naruto is a slow learner.

and fyi, reading information out of a stolen, hidden scroll, and using your sharingan, is the sammmmmmmme thing, its a shortcut to learning a technique.

[iBeast]

I think that Sasuke will defeat Itachi, but Itachi dosen't die. He somehow manages to escape, Kisame comes back to save him, or Zetsu saves Itachi.


Regardless, Sasuke is clearly the victor of this fight.

[philmein]

Sasuke hasn't fully tranformed yet right? Level two cursed seal that is.
Honestly, I agree with you most of you guys. Should Itachi be defeated with the way everything has gone thus far, then wow, just freakin' oh wow. I love you Kishimoto *sarcasm*

[Casshern]

Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan

lol, dude, how long was naruto using kage bunshin b4 he realised that u could actually LEARN FROM UR CLONE, anything that it has seen when it returns to your body? 2 and a half yearssssssssssss.and kakashi had to TELL HIM so, trust me, hes a slow learner.

Actually, much longer since Naruto has known kage bunshin since episode 1 (or 2?). But that doesn't make Naruto a slow learner. It just means Naruto has a very low IQ. Naruto learned the original rasengan in 7 days. He also learned the rasenshuriken very fast. This doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he's dumb. He's a fast learner because he can train seemingly endlessly. That would be the difference between Naruto and Sakura. Sakura is a fast learner thanks to her intelligence, while Naruto is a fast learner thanks to his infinite stamina.

[TooPurePureBoy]

Ok if this spoiler is true and Sasuke was able "shrug" off Ameterasu without any real damage I'm gonna be really confused.

This is almost going as if Itachi were the "good guy" going against all odds fighting an opponent who seems to be able to cancel out all his moves.

I agree with Hunter-sensei that if this fight ends in such a lackluster way it is a serious let down for a fight that has been hinted at since the beginning of the story.

I understand that living up to the hype would have been almost impossible for any author (let alone a person like kishimoto who's true talents lie in the realm of drawing not storytelling) but I had hoped for something a little more awe-inspiring than this effort.

[ShadowAssasin]

Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan

1. BUT, wwhhhhhhhhy do people continually refer to ameratasu (sp) as the STRONGEST NINJUTSU EVER?. the strongest SHARINGAN NINJUTSU, i would buy, the strongest FIRE type jutsu i would buy, but strongest ever?

2. helloooooooo, madara fought the 1st hokage over control of the village, and he lost, im not positive, but i think he must have used that jutsu

3.now considering that Tsukuyomi was supposed to be the WORLDS GREATEST, genjutsu and it got broken, by just a normal sharingan, who is to say the sharingan doesnt have the ability to break ameratasu too, somehow some way

4. please dont bash me too bad, hahahaha

1. Tell me about it.

2. Yes, he probably did use it; it would he hard to imagine him being defeated without using his most powerful techniques. (unless of course he was somehow rendered unable to use it?)

3. Noone, that is until the manga tells us otherwise. The problem is that alot of these "disappointed" people just want to see Sasuke get beaten up; they're upset that he's become this powerful. If this was naruto beating Itachi, half of these disgruntled viewers would probably be posting how "great" this fight is turning out. You have to realize that even though certain suggestions might seem clear in the manga/series, there are still people that will view them the way *they* want to. Then when the meaning becomes undeniablely apparent, they will inevitablely become "dissapointed", since the results aren't congruent with their expectations. In this case, many viewers thought Itachi to more powerful than he actually was; and perhaps in combination with expecting Sasuke to be weaker than he actually was. Whats funny is that many of them are also upset at the author lol. The author is simply writing his story, its *you* (whoever this applys to) who misinterpreted it...

In regards to the Sharingan:I think that he was able to break out of the Tsukuyomi through a combination of his anger, determination, and the severity of the circumstances. Some people seem to think that because he pulled it off this time that it would always happen. If they had 5 matches, I doubt Sasuke would be able to pull out of it all 5 times. It was mentioned that a sharingan user would have the best chance of breaking the genjitsu. And, while Sasuke doesn't possess the MS, I wouldn't call his Sharingan normal either(his eyes would likely be the strongest among his peers; an unusually strong sharingan).

4. Your post was cool, you seem to be trying to bring people to reality. It's too bad that there aren't more of us.

[NaOH]

this fight feels sloppy compared to jiraya vs pein. IMO it feels like kishi is rushing thru the manga so he dumb down orochimaru, and itachi. As result, the two fights are not as "epic" as it should have been. Kishi should of placed the itachi fight before the jman fight, then it wouldn't look as bad in compairson. I will feel jipped if this is how itachi kicks the bucket... all that hype and not enough epicness to back it up, kind of like the ps3

[Ero-Senn1n]

Amaterasu means "god of the sun" if i remember correctly. With such a strong name, and all the hype about that jutsu (Zetsu and others) i wonder how in the hell could Kishimoto present it so poorly. First it's used to make a hole in a wall, wow, what a cool jutsu, making holes in the wall! I know it was a super-inpenetrable-flesh-wall, but still it was used to make a damn hole. And now it will be defeated again. Again, i have to say that fire jutsu are pathetic in this manga, and it seems to be true for this black ultimate fire too. I don't know why does Kishimoto prefer lightning and wind and even water (2nd hokage stopping the 3rd's fire attack) or earth jutsu (Kakashi countering Itachi's grand fireball jutsu) more than fire. The only one part of the manga where fire made serious damage was when Asuma used it, and the joke is that it backfired on him, he burned himself because of Hidan's jutsu.

I guess Itachi was above all a perfectionist, that's why he had tsukiyomi and amaterasu as his jutsu. The Uchiha have two basic jutsu: fire ninjutsu and genjutsu. Genjutsu's weakness is that it needs time to work while it can be dispelled by someone helping the opponent or attacking the genjutsu user. This is overcome with tsukiyomi since it works instantaneously. Fire jutsu is one of the 5 elements, so it can be beaten too, but amaterasu is supposed to be unbeatable by any other elements, so it's perfect too. If every MS user has his special jutsu developed then it's clear that Itachi's perfectionism is the reason why he develped these two jutsu.

[Sakuranbo]

Spoiler for Itachi's fate:

Itachi kicks the bucket. R.I.P. Uchiha, Weasel.