To Aru Majutsu no Index Light Novel Discussion (Archives)

[Marcus H.]

She can create gruesome creatures out of a harmless cat. Imagine how it would affect humans.
She's just that dangerous.

[EvilSamurai]

...laser cat....

some questions about the translation of volume 12.

when the 4 MISAKA clones are speaking, it was translated as
'speech', as MISAKA 'description'
this does not make much sense in English.

wouldn't it be better to translate their speech by removing the 'as'
for example:
"'In other words, she is keeping it secret from other Misakas that she's doing secret, stealthy, unclean behavior (a diet)?' as Misaka 10032 would follow up."

and change it to

"'In other words, she is keeping it secret from other Misakas that she's doing secret, stealthy, unclean behavior (a diet)?' Misaka 10032 follows up."

There are several of their lines that work well both ways though. Just food for translation thought.

[outerelf]

... I leave the forum for two or so days and I come back to find a major discussion went on without me? I'm glad to of missed all of that XD

[giorno]

i really should just let this one go but...it's a pretty interesting discussion, at least for me

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

So in a series full of kids where they're easily just as capable as adults, just like hundreds of other animes, Kuroko is the one single person who is an exception? This almost screams plot hole itself; plot hole or not beside, one would think that an important agency like Judgement would be better choosers about their members.

Kuroko also showed us that she still IS just a 13 year old girl, and doesn't have the discipline and judgement a trained adult would have, more than once between railgun manga and volumes 6 and 8

Of course you evacuate them all, but as you just agreed you start with the more vulerable ones first. That means one of the first two people out should be Hyouka instead of Mikoto.

Except to a member of judgement or anti-skill, they are ALL just as vulnerable. That's apparently what they are taught, all civilians are seen equally as just civilians, regardless of their level

Which is exactly why it's a plot hole, i.e. inconsistency; Kuroko has demonstrated time and again that she is a capable, well-knowledged member of Judgement. Deciding that a level 0 is more in danger than a level 5 who just blew away the terrorist's ability with ease doesn't take a rocket scientist

yep, this is where we disagree, basically, i.e. our view of Kuroko's character. You see her as a capable, well-knowledged member of judgement who is very disciplined and doesn't make mistakes.

I see her as a 13 year old girl with a great power, who is well-knowledged and capable thanks to her training as a member of judgement, but who is not that disciplined and still makes mistakes because of her personality, confidence and immaturity

Why didn't he wait? Because he's always going off to fight the bad guys. That's not inconsistent at that he went after the bad guy; he was already telling them that he would be the decoy and buy everybody time to get out befoe Kuroko had taken anybody out of the mall int he first place.
He told Hyouka to stay put, but like I've said several times around here, he has no means to make people stay put; Hyouka will go after him if she wants, as will Mikoto. He can't stop them.

It is inconsistent because he knows how teleport works, and his priority is taking Hyouka to safety. Which means he should have waited for Kuroko to come back first, then go after Sherry. It's true that he always runs off to fight the bad guys, but he also always prioritizes the safety of his friends, and is definitely not dumb enough to just run off like that

This is another assumption you guys are makingl

an assumption that is based on the way Mikoto is portrayed in both the novels and the railgun manga

how do you know how much experience Mikoto has?

clearly not much "real" battle experience(as in, an actual battle that involved more than just blast away with her power, and in which her life may be at stake), and close to zero with the dark side. Again, this is made quite clear by both index and railgun

How do you know Frenda is more experienced?

she is a member of ITEM, a mercenary group of the dark side of AC who's constantly getting jobs that involve fighting and killing

Either way, Frenda obviously couldn't overpower Mikoto through tactics, as she lost very thoroughly.

i wouldn't say she lost very thoroughly, she nearly DID kill Mikoto through tactics, and only lost because she didn't kill her fast enough and forced Mikoto into a corner. Mikoto managed to win because she had nothing else to lose at that point, she was going to die anyways, so she had to use her power

Their battle clearly showed how Mikoto's strategical and tactical abilities are no match for someone with much more experience than her who relied on this to fight. She still won, because her power and her skills in the end proved too much for Frenda to overcome through superior tactics(and also, Frenda did not expect her target to be a level 5)

Part of that was due to Mikoto using her powers strategically and creatively as opposed to "point and shoot."

yes, absolutely. I never said Mikoto isn't very smart, creative and quick to adapt and skilled in the use of her power. What i said is that she is clearly still not as good as Frenda or Shiage in this regard, and that to think that she could be a better tactician than an experienced and powerful magician such as Acqua is just stupid. Her fights with Touma are also proof of this

Besides which, Touma had zero experience fighting against magicians, same as Mikoto, but did just fine.

he had experience fighting espers. Apparently it wasn't much different than fighting magicians, according to volume 7

And if Mikoto had fought bad guys with Touma, any knowledge he gained from index would have been available to him.

yes, of course

That said, I would fully expect Mikoto to try and keep Touma out of the battles at first

totally disagree with this

Not very relevant; he's a level 0 in what is essentially a street gang. A gfar cry from the third most powerful level 5.

I'm not discussing who is stronger, i'm discussing who is the better tactician of the two: the guy who's constantly getting into fights that may even involve his life, and has to rely on his brain to fight, or the girl with the overwhelming power who only ever fought one person who was more powerful than her?

2. Except Mikoto beat Mugino too. With tactics and creative use of her powers.

yes, she kind of did....

Knocked her out stone cold

Nope

Shiage having anything over Mikoto is irrelevant and pointless; Mikoto proved she's at least just as competent.

that's because Mikoto is a level 5, Shiage is a level 0. I never said Shiage is stronger or more skilled than Mikoto, what i'm saying is Shiage is better suited than Mikoto to fight people more powerful than him, because that's what he's been doing all his life. Mikoto on the other hand only had ONE such experience...

Mikoto's victories over Frenda and Mugino through tactics and creative power usage would like to have a word with you too.

No, not when she was cornered and nearly killed by Frenda, a result of their difference in battle experience

First, magic is almost literally worlds apart from Esper abilities; they're not really comparable, as people here are pointing out themselves.

apparently they are, according to volume 7

I still somewhat disagree with this undertone thing. Sure he didn't want her to get involved and specifically told her to go home, but he didn't have anything to force her away nor did he actually specifically put any effort into; and again, even if he did, Mikoto's not the type of character to just turn her back on someone limping to a battle because they asked her to, much less when she's in love with him and knows it.

we have a different idea of her character, then. I find it entirely reasonable given the situation

Again, Judgement's duties specifically involve evacuation/protection of civilians. If there's one thing they would be trained on, it would be this.

true, you're right about this, my bad

Honestly, there was nothing to be that overwhelmed about. She confronted him about his amnesia and he explained to her why he fights even though he can't remember his life. He didn't drop some bombshell that utterly changed her life beyond a semblance of its former shape.

we have to agree to disagree on this

no point discussing this further, as neither will change idea, i guess

This makes no sense; how is Mikoto any faster to get out than Hyouka?

because she's closer, because Index is making a mess about it, and because Mikoto herself may make a mess herself later.

But mostly, she's just out of time, has to evacuate 3 people ASAP, and since they can't decide in which order to be evacuated, she just grabs the two closest
to her who are bitching about it

this isn't out of character for Kuroko. Forced, convenient plot device? Yes. Plot hole? Nope

I wouldn't say Mikoto has a dark past, but given that Touma had to save a bunch of level 0s from Mikoto in the first episode, I'd say she has a habit of getting into fights. Moreover, we know she gets into fights; for one thing, she's always challenging Touma to a duel.

the big difference is that Mikoto's fights are mostly frying some punks. Not even real fights at all. Touma's fights on the other hand are actual fights

Have Stiyl watch a close friend get brutally murdered like Mikoto saw one of her MISAKA clones get brutally murdered against Accelerator. If you honestly expect Stiyl to keep his calm, then we're not watching/reading the same title.

i guess we aren't reading the same title, then

Just because Mikoto would go more "crazy" than Stiyl probably would doesn't make her less competent for having a harsher reaction

Yes, it would. Just look at volume 3. Then look again at volume 8 or the liberal arts mini-novel. Granted, the situation wasn't nearly as desperate(for her), but she was still able to deal with it much better. That's what experience is

Stiyl by now is hardened enough to not break even if put into a similar situation as mikoto with the sisters

Kenshin Himura, Vash the Stampede, and fighters with (initially) less experience like Ichigo Kurosaki go BALISTIC when they see innocents get killed or even just hurt a little. It doesn't hinder them at all.

And that is relevant...how?

I'm not sure why you think I'm saying Mikoto can get in on the action in scenes other than those...........

'cause you kept talking as if there were many more times other than that. At least that's how i interpreted your words

"In a way."

what, you wanted more?

"A plot device is an object or character in a story whose sole purpose is to advance the plot of the story, or alternatively to overcome some difficulty in the plot."

which is what these situations we're discussing are: plot devices

EDIT: only realized it now, it's a kilometric post >__<

[faiz blaster]

Anything new on the MikotoxLessar story that came with the latest DVD?

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by outerelf

... I leave the forum for two or so days and I come back to find a major discussion went on without me? I'm glad to of missed all of that XD

It was pretty interesting but headache-inducing at the same time.

[Miraluka]

Spoiler for Shinji:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

No offense to you but you're acting like Mikoto is some dumb little girl. She's not. Shiage used tactics to opvercome his lack of powers, but Mikoto also used tactics in conjunction with her abilities. The latter (powers+tactics) is far more potent because Mikoto is capable of doing any action Shiage can, with the added benefit of having powers to use.

No, I seeing her as a normal girl with powers who relies on her powers.

Take a good friend of Stiyl's, have him watch the friend get brutally murdered, and see what happens. Better yet, do it with Kaori; she would definitely go berserk.
That, and just because Mikoto was furious opver the brutal death of anyone, doesn't make her incompetent or unable to handle herself. As I pointed out, Accelerator is one of those broken bad guys that nobody could handle unless you have just the right ability. (Imagine Breaker)

Kaori, implied she did kill before too, hence her "I don't want to say my magic name again".

None of which at all gives Touma fighting skills. How does being hit by thrown rocks make you a harder puncher? This stuff might make him more calm in the face of danger (usually it has the opposite effect though), but it doesn't give him better skills in combat or fighting.

Yes, they do. The misfortune leads him to problems and fights with delinquents thugs armed with guns and knives. Heck, that was mentioned in the novels since Touma arrived to Academy City he was labeled as delinquent because of that.

Have Stiyl watch a close friend get brutally murdered like Mikoto saw one of her MISAKA clones get brutally murdered against Accelerator. If you honestly expect Stiyl to keep his calm, then we're not watching/reading the same title. Just because Mikoto would go more "crazy" than Stiyl probably would doesn't make her less competent for having a harsher reaction; Kenshin Himura, Vash the Stampede, and fighters with (initially) less experience like Ichigo Kurosaki go BALISTIC when they see innocents get killed or even just hurt a little. It doesn't hinder them at all.

So you skip all Stiyl's talk about how the person (Himegami) which he almost lost his life to save and is dying in front him and what he only can do is keep going on or when he allowed Kaori to slice Index don't counts?

et Touma keeps winning. And he's far fromt he first person who had conquered powerful enemies wihout killing.

Using your own words, because nobody could handle unless you have just the right ability. (Imagine Breaker)

And if Mikoto teamed up with Touma, that knowledge would be available to her too. Touma wasn't any more capable of taking on certain enemies than Mikoto wihout Index's help.

And do you think Kaori won't kick in who is watching from the distance?

How was that a decoy?

Sherry said "making me lost time", what she wanted to do is focus on her targets Index, Touma or Hyouka. Kuroko, Mikoto and other aren't targets and when Mikoto shoot Ellis, Sherry had already "vanished".
It does, the time for regeneration takes between 5 to 10 seconds.
Anti-Skill were getting their ass kicked because Touma activated the emergencies alarm before and the majority of the team was deployed to find the intruser leaving Yomikawa with a reduced number.

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

Anything new on the MikotoxLessar story that came with the latest DVD?

Not yer, you have to wait the second DVD or BR release.

EDIT:


I just noticed but in some forums Uiharu seems to be hated, some calls her "talkative pot", the scene where Kakine stomps her is called "fanservice" or just they Kakine an hero. Ok, I can't wait years to see more of these opinions if a third season ever gets animated .

[EvilSamurai]

The anime industry seems to like to do things in 2's and 3's. I think they will make a 3rd season eventually.

[I_am_Kami]

question?

When Group was formed and had their first mission they just got to know each other like nothing? I am asking this cuz i noticed accelerator casually talked to tschumikado like he already knew him. Did i miss something?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

question?

When Group was formed and had their first mission they just got to know each other like nothing? I am asking this cuz i noticed accelerator casually talked to tschumikado like he already knew him. Did i miss something?

I imagine they would have met before Accelerator's first mission, some time between vol 13 to the start of SS1.

On the topic of Group... Only Accelerator and Etzali are pretty well developed, Tsuchimikado... We know nothing about his past and how he got roped into all this, Awaki- Her motivation is supposedly her comrades locked up, but we never even got to know them... (Unless this was in vol 15 cause I haven't read it yet)

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I imagine they would have met before Accelerator's first mission, some time between vol 13 to the start of SS1.

On the topic of Group... Only Accelerator and Etzali are pretty well developed, Tsuchimikado... We know nothing about his past and how he got roped into all this, Awaki- Her motivation is supposedly her comrades locked up, but we never even got to know them... (Unless this was in vol 15 cause I haven't read it yet)

so it just skipped right to them being group and they all get along like nothing despite the fact accelerator beat the shit out of awaki?

[SuzushinaYuriko]

I wouldn't say that they "get along"...

“Don’t interfere in other people’s fights.”

“Oh? Is that any way to talk to the person that saved your life?”

“…Do you want me to kill you?”

“Right back at you.”

A thin smile appeared on Musujime’s face and she got so close he could feel her breath on his face.

Her eyes were open so wide they looked like dinner plates.

“Did you forget? The only reason I’m here is because you interfered with my fight on that day. If it weren’t for you, I could have hidden and gotten more people to help me. Then I could have attacked the facility my comrades are restrained in and rescued them.”

The smile on her face looked like it was slicing her head in two as she slowly spoke.

“Heh. Heh heh. If you use your powers to help me with my work in GROUP and my comrades are released as a result, I’ll forgive you. But if you get in my way, you’re dead. Make sure your value to me doesn’t fall any farther. If you don’t you’ll have corkscrews all over your body.”

“Shut the fuck up, woman.” Accelerator cracked his neck as he responded. “You’re the one that doesn’t understand. You’re the one that got so upset just because I smashed some of your luggage. Try and get this in that defective brain of yours. If you waste even a second of my life, you’re going to be nothing more than a stain in a back alley.”

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

I wouldn't say that they "get along"...

i just think its kinda weird to start them out of nowhere like that. At least give an intro of the teammates to each other

[Breidaluk]

Hello. first time talking here. sorry about my english, its my second language and I don't practice her a lot. Does anybody know something about Railgun SS2.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Breidaluk

Hello. first time talking here. sorry about my english, its my second language and I don't practice her a lot. Does anybody know something about Railgun SS2.

Its a mininovel bundled with Index's DVD/BD:
For resumes here:
http://toarumajutsunoindex.wikia.com...0Railgun%20SS2

Credits to Cubicjack

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Breidaluk

Hello. first time talking here. sorry about my english, its my second language and I don't practice her a lot. Does anybody know something about Railgun SS2.

Basically what Wilfriback said, if you want details- Mikoto goes to Russia to exhibit the powers of a Level 5 to the public and somehow gets caught up in anoher incident.

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

i just think its kinda weird to start them out of nowhere like that. At least give an intro of the teammates to each other

That's what the SS is for, how Accelerator treats them is pretty much how their intro would have gone down.

At best they don't care, at worst alot of angry glare and provocations.

Personally, I think they're all just given a dossier and were told to read it.

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I don't know where this hesitate from wounding/killing people mentality that people seem to automatically input into her character comes from, but she did 'causally' fight a Railgun into a squad of Hound Dog without worries. And from those punks we know that she's more than happy to lay down the hurt, so wounding isn't an issue.

I think 'lay down the hurt' is different to 'KO without injuring them too badly'... after all, tasers are supposed to be 'safe' weapons that subdues but not kill (I don't know if that's really the case though - Don't know enough about Real-Life weapons here ). Mikoto was picking off people that isn't much of a threat to her (ie Hound Dogs), so wounding opponents or not in that circumstance isn't really much of a point?
(I'm assuming that magicians like Sherry or Stiyl would be able to outmatch a van full of Hound Dogs, and someone that might actually be a threat to Mikoto in a fight - Mikoto vs Hound Dogs is pretty much just a one-way beatdown for the poor sods fighting the Railgun)

@Shinji103:
1) Mikoto's win in the fight with ITEM was less due to Mikoto's own skill and more because of Mugino's arrogance IMO... Mugino told the others to retreat so she can fight Mikoto one on one, and then fell for Mikoto's trap at the end.
Even at the start Mikoto wasn't fighting ITEM at full power - one member was at another site, and Frenda was already down when Mugino finally stepped in.

2) Mikot have the skills, and maybe the capability for battle... but probably not the experience. She's probably like one of those rookies that is talented but lack field experience. I'll concede that Mikoto living the 'rich girl' life doesn't mean she won't have experience... but at the same time, it doesn't means she does have experience, seeing as she haven't ran into something from the Dark Side of Academy City before that incident with Level Upper.

3) For the record, Acqua was the one that put up the area spell to prevent civilians getting in.
And to your main burn that Mikoto just let Touma walked off like that... I'd like to say Mikoto's just a 14-yr old (give or take 1-2 yrs?) teenage girl, and is overwhelmed by her discovery that she has some sort of deep feeling towards Touma; BUT I'm not, nor ever have been, a teenage girl and thus can't say how a teenage girl would react in that situation So if you can't accept the reason that was implicitly stated in the novels that Mikoto is frozen by her own discovery than I can't really provide any more reasoning *shrug*

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka

I wouldn't say that they "get along"...

Some people look at that and go "whoa angry sex" so...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Some people look at that and go "whoa angry sex" so...

That's crazy talk!

Originally Posted by Flere821

I think 'lay down the hurt' is different to 'KO without injuring them too badly'... after all, tasers are supposed to be 'safe' weapons that subdues but not kill (I don't know if that's really the case though - Don't know enough about Real-Life weapons here ). Mikoto was picking off people that isn't much of a threat to her (ie Hound Dogs), so wounding opponents or not in that circumstance isn't really much of a point?
(I'm assuming that magicians like Sherry or Stiyl would be able to outmatch a van full of Hound Dogs, and someone that might actually be a threat to Mikoto in a fight - Mikoto vs Hound Dogs is pretty much just a one-way beatdown for the poor sods fighting the Railgun)

The point is, despite the Hound Dog's killing intents, Mikoto is confident enough to handle them without needing to restort to fatal blows. So really I don't see where this whole "No killing intent equals hesitation equals easy defeat" comes from. And lets say she goes against an opponent than gave her trouble like... Kiyama? Again, no problem. So what if you're willing to kill? It doesn't automatically make you a better fighter, Touma defeated tons of people out to kill him and I don't see why Mikoto should be any different if faced with the same people.


Power Level in Toaru is funny that way, Sherry I can see her using her Golem as a shield, but as you can see Anti-Skill got her pin down using cover fire. Stiyl I think would have a bigger problem against guns- yes he got the 'fire' power, but a straight on fight? Fires don't stop bullets.


Anyway, those two can't match Mikoto if all they can bring is firepower. And From the Railgun manga we know that Mikoto can be just as resourceful as the others.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Stiyl I think would have a bigger problem against guns- yes he got the 'fire' power, but a straight on fight? Fires don't stop bullets.

No, Stiyl has illusions runes at his disposition. If they can't find him they can't shoot him. They guy relies on those kind of tricks and other more, thats why he gets that phisically weak by using all his energy on magic.