2012-01-06, 16:08 | Link #901 | |||
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As Inoue can't stop praising Kigami, Kigami apparently is one of legendary animators. One day he moved to Kyoto. There were no anime studios there in Kyoto. He had no choice but to retire from anime. Kyoto Animation, a cel-painting company at the time, thought it would be a huge loss for the anime industry, and it established its animation department for his sake. I believe the name of KyoAni spread as Kigami's studio across the industry. A certain director told a back story of the time when KyoAni was performing subcontracting works before Fumoffu. An anime studio subcontracts to other studios to rearrange its own schedule. In contrast, since he wanted to subcontract to KyoAni, he rearranged the schedule of his project to suit KyoAni's schedule. That story shows how special KyoAni has been since their early days. Quote:
Translating a long interview was much harder work than I had thought.
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2012-01-06, 21:43 | Link #902 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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--------------- I think Shana III bombing can be attributed more to than just the 4 year break imo, like the jarring transition between s2 and s3 which must've alienated a lot of fans/potential customers I'm sure. Haruhi as a franchise is also stupidly absurd at times too don't forget. I don't think any other franchise could've gotten away with that 2007-2009 PR debacle only to show E8 and still manage to come out in rather good shape afterwards. It's only been a little under two years since the last continuation so I still think it's a little too early to despair just yet. I know I'd rather wait in the dark and be told straight up when the next installment is as opposed to finding out earlier only to play their little hype game where they keep telling you it's coming but never actually when.
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2012-01-06, 22:55 | Link #903 |
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Haruhi and Shana certainly aren't a perfect comparison. Shana never enjoyed the level of sales success that Haruhi did.
Still, Shana at one time was a sales success, and it no longer is. I think that there's a valid cautionary tale there about how it's generally not wise to leave a popular anime on hiatus for a very long period of time: Say, 4 years or longer. 3 years alone is pushing it a bit, but 4 years is probably really risking an erosion of the fanbase/customerbase. Anime, and its fandom, have always been predominantly new-focused. You see this in ISML, where older characters inevitably grow weaker over time, almost never stronger. To a significant extent, the anime industry is internet hype-driven. It's often harder to get that hype going anew after a long layoff than after a shorter and more standard 2 years or so layoff. If a new Haruhi anime comes out sometime between now and Summer 2013, say, then that's probably not too long a layoff for most of the fanbase/customerbase. Anything beyond that, though, really is running a risk of growing disinterest.
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2012-01-06, 23:56 | Link #904 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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The 2006 and 2009 series had a three year gap in between and things seemed to work out alright there. I dunno I still think it's gonna take a whole lot longer than 3-4 years to completely devastate Haruhi though.
I'm curious to see how much drop-off (or if any) Ippo had since it went through a six year break from 2003-2009.
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2012-01-07, 03:14 | Link #905 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Somehow or another, they lost their fans. It's like a whole bunch of people collected 20 or so books, only to decide that they didn't care enough to finish (i.e. they moved onto newer series or quit reading light novels altogether). Maybe the novel content just wasn't strong enough to maintain popularity without frequent marketing pushes. As for Haruhi, I'm pretty sure it's going to have more staying power than the typical hit. |
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2012-01-07, 04:19 | Link #907 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Hard to determine the expiration date of a particular property. I don't see FMP get anymore adaptions. Code Geass pretty much redefined the mecha/high school blend and FMP just can't really fit in that mold.
Multi year gaps between anime don't really have to be an issue as long as the property itself remains popular. Fate/Stay night had a similar gap. Eureka 7 is getting a sequel after 7 years. As for Haruhi, the 2009 version was pretty much a relaunch so new fans could jump on. Last time I checked the movie and the latest issues of the LN still did well in sales so there is a pretty good chance there will be more animated content in the future. The property also benefits from actually having a solid storyline by Tanigawa rather than being more of being a character promotion vehicle like Shana. |
2012-01-07, 18:38 | Link #908 | ||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Let me show you why this example is so damn silly. Shana's LN novels had already peaked in sales well before the Final Novel + 3rd Season. Haruhi's latest novels after a 4 year absence are the highest selling novels in the series. So not only did Haruhi manage to survive for 4 years (Bu-bu-but THE ANIME CAN'T!!!!) without new content it also managed to sell the best it has ever done. While Shana which was continuously releasing novels went into a downwards spiral. To compare Haruhi to Shana is an absolute joke as well in terms of franchise power, would be like comparing Vandread to Gundam or Macross. If you want to compare something to Haruhi than make it the Monogatari series since that's the only LN/Anime that compares. The LN for that sales about half of Haruhi (but they also cost twice as much so the same gross) but the anime is far more popular, nearly doubling Haruhi's sales. Poor SHAFT, is their thread going to be filled with endless bitching and whining everytime they adapt/do something new instead of working on future Monogatari adaptions (looking @ 5 more series lol) and Madoka movies and spinoffs? I actually wouldn't mind if Kadokawa tried a 3 year cycle with Haruhi. Haruhi Film 2010 Nichijou 2011 Hyou-Ka 2012 Haruhi 3 2013 <New Property> 2014 (Maybe do Full Metal Panic Again) <New Property> 2015 Haruhi 4 2016 You know the guys @ KyoAni might not want to work on the same thing over and over again, why do you think Bungie left Microsoft? So they can do something different from Halo all the damn time. |
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2012-01-07, 21:03 | Link #909 | ||||||
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Westlo, I'm simply taking your arguments to their logical conclusions. If you're confident that KyoAni is going to eventually make more Haruhi anime, then please explain to the rest of us exactly why you hold such confidence, because going by your arguments, it's easy to see how the Haruhi anime franchise can get stuck in limbo, with no more of it being produced.
If Kadokawa would rather promote their lesser-known properties than get more Haruhi adapted into anime (your argument), and if KyoAni can't do or say anything against that out of fear of losing Kadokawa as a business partner/client (again, your argument), then that logically leads us into a situation in which Haruhi may never get more anime adaptation work done for it again. If this is not the case, then please explain to me why, because I'm only going by your arguments here. I raised Shana 3 simply to show an example of how a popular anime can lose fans and/or sales by going on hiatus for too long. Quote:
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However, will we have more Haruhi novels coming out at a steady rate to similarly keep momentum going if the Haruhi anime is on a lengthy hiatus? Who knows? With Tanigawa's recent writing pace, I doubt it. Quote:
The main reason people ask "What about Haruhi?" or "What about Little Busters?" or "What about FMP?" when KyoAni announces that it's doing/adapting something new is because all of us here know that KyoAni only does one or two projects a year. This is most definitely not the case with SHAFT, which is why no Madoka or Monogatari fan would fear for their favorite anime shows just because SHAFT announces a project for a new IP. As long as KyoAni only does one or two projects a year, each project they choose to do will obviously come under intense scrutiny. That's part of the inherent price that comes along with a very prominent anime studio doing only a project or two a year. Quote:
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If the customer wants more Halo, then they should get more Halo. If the customer wants more Haruhi, then they should get more Haruhi. The customer parts with his or her hard-earned money for Halo/Haruhi, while game developers/animators are paid to perform a creative task, and that task is to make the games/anime that customers will hopefully want to have. Yes, game developers and anime makers should certainly be allowed to express their artistic creativity and get refreshing changes from time-to-time in various side-projects, but at the end of the day, the main goal should be satisfying customers and fans as best as is reasonably possible. That means that as long as demand for Halo and Haruhi is there, you service that demand. I simply think that the anime industry, and its companies, should put their customers and fans first. Which obviously means that you don't leave a large fanbase/customer-base out in the cold for very long.
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2012-01-07, 21:26 | Link #910 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Besides, if KyoAni really wants more customers, they can just make more K-ON! Also, the Moshidora franchise can't really compare to either Shana or Haruhi as both the books and the broadcasts aimed at different demographics with a distinctly different release and sales strategies. |
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2012-01-07, 23:36 | Link #912 | ||||||||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Of course not fertygo, HARUHI IS IN LIMBO after all.
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Instead of being butthurt and obtuse use some common sense please. Quote:
Are we also going to act like Shana like series aren't a dime a dozen these days or that Shana was even that "good" in the first place? Quote:
Shana otoh had an OVA series that had sales fall drastically after the first two and had dropping sales for its Light novels which were finishing up. Exactly the same! How can I have not seen it! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways Triple_R-Sama! Quote:
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Winter - Madoka Spring - Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko + Maria Holic Alive, Katte ni Kaizou OVAs Summer - A 50 minute Negima Movie which was an embarrassment and is getting extended by 40 minutes on Bluray. Fall - Hidamari Sketch x SP OVA If you knew SHAFT you'll know that this is the least amount of anime they've produced in a year for a long time. It's not like it's so much more output compared to 2-cour Nichijou and the K-ON Movie (which would take more manpower than a mere tv series) which you left out by accident I'm sure. Also lets look @ what SHAFT are doing this year... Winter - Nise TBA - Hidamari Sketch 4, Kizu, Madoka Film Trilogy All existing IPs. Quote:
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07) *43,883 ¥2,309m 14 ep 2009 Kyoto Animation Pony Canyon__ K-ON! 09) *41,037 ¥2,091m 14 ep 2006 Kyoto Animation Kadokawa_____ Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu 10) *39,385 ¥2,888m 27 ep 2010 Kyoto Animation Pony Canyon__ K-ON!! 36) *19,064 ¥*,940m 14 ep 2009 Kyoto Animation Kadokawa_____ Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu (2009) K-ON! Movie - ¥1,139,230,000 (and growing) Haruhi Movie - ¥830,000,000 K-ON! wins in S1, S2 and Movie. KyoAni should listen to their customers and stop wasting time with Haruhi and work strictly on K-ON!, it's what the customer wants after all. |
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2012-01-07, 23:40 | Link #913 | |||
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So there's not a single animator that would agree with the axiom of "The Customer is Always Right"?
That's a pretty commonly referenced axiom. In any event, I specifically wrote that it's fine for animators to get a refreshing change from time-to-time by doing some side-projects, but that companies should regularly go back to the most popular properties that a lot of fans demand. The key is achieving balance here. This, in my view, constitutes a perfectly reasonable compromise between fan/customer demands and creator freedom. Quote:
Any good business or industry will want to satisfy its paying customers and meet their more reasonable requests. And requesting to have a hit LN and a hit anime adapted to completion, and not take forever for that completion to be made, is a perfectly reasonable request for customers to make. Quote:
Just because you have MegaSuperHit A doesn't mean you leave fans of MegaHit B out in the cold forever. Blizzard has both Warcraft (WoW) and Starcraft to its name. It would be foolish to neglect one to focus only the fans of the other, as both are hugely popular properties with their own large, distinct fanbases. Quote:
There's already plenty of remaining Haruhi novel material to fill up a 2 cour season, with more left over. It's not like KyoAni has to wait for Tanigawa to write more. Not now they don't.
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2012-01-07, 23:45 | Link #914 |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
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You sure you want to use Blizzard as an analogy? Blizzard-When It's Done-Entertainment who took ten years for a Starcraft sequel announcement? That's comparable to... hey, what do you know. Full Metal Panic!
Just because they're not doing it now, doesn't mean they won't do it at all. Cheers.
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2012-01-07, 23:55 | Link #915 | ||||||||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Suzumiya Haruhi-chan no Yuuutsu Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu (2009) Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu Isn't regularly going back to their popular properties? Good god the entitlement of Haruhi fans is obnoxious. Quote:
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2012-01-08, 00:11 | Link #916 |
Did nothing wrong
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Nah, Blizzard is a fine example
Yes they are slow, but they take care to and maintain their properties to keep the customers happy. Starcraft I and Diablo II are very old games, yet the online services are still supported for a 13 year old game. Hell, even fucking Diablo I is still supported via battle.net Blizzard has consistently patched these games years after their release and even bothered to provide new content for Diablo II even though they were under no obligation to do so. You didn't have to pay for it. Patch 1.10 was after the expansion yet the new patch had provided a ton of new features. The last Starcraft I patch was 3 years ago to fix major issues. That's over 11 years past release! Starcraft I would fuck up under Windows 7 at first. Most game makers would go "lol not supported" but Blizzard releases a workaround even though they never designed it to be compatible. If anything, Blizzard is one of the companies that go far and out of their way to make sure each of their products is taken care of well. So yes, they don't spam sequels out the wazoo, but they sure don't leave their customers of any of their 3 major franchises out in the cold. And this is coming from the #1 Blizzard basher on these forums. So they might be slow, but at least they're steady.
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2012-01-08, 00:18 | Link #917 |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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It took them 7 years to pump out Starcraft 2 after the release of WoW, that which came out 5 years after Brood War. I also really don't see how maintaining servers has anything to do with releasing new content which is what people are bitching about in regards to Haruhi and KyoAni.
The WC and SC of Kyoani have both had 2 tv series and a movie in the last 6 years, if it's fine to wait for Blizzard games than learn to wait for KyoAni. It's a shame that a company as great as Blizzard will never be able to release a new IP, I'm sure that Titan MMO is just going to end up being a Starcraft MMO after all. |
2012-01-08, 00:19 | Link #918 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Akiyuki Shinbo has already basically said that anime is meant to make money. And guess what... Madoka sold like crazy, and what do you know, we got more Madoka on the way. Bake sold well and now we got a squel and a prequel all at once.
Haruhi sold really well and we got endless 8 and infinite delays. Yeah, sure Kadokawa might be managing to make money out of this from the customers who are frankly insane enough to spend money on an episode that was the same thing remade 8 times, but how does that change anything about what's being said? It's still asinine and annoying to the people who find this really disagreeable. I would've gladly bought more Haruhi, I own its first season, but because of their antics I refuse to give them another dime now. FMP I'm not that big a fan of, but the treatment of that franchise is also disgustingly absurd.
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2012-01-08, 00:24 | Link #919 | ||
Did nothing wrong
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Why is this important? Triple_r's original quote said: Quote:
Do Diablo, Starcraft, or Warcraft fans really think one of the other series are getting preferential treatment? I'm more with the Starcraft side, and I don't feel this at all despite the long wait times because of all the continued and consistent care they put in Brood War. But to return us back to Kyoani; I would say the marketing for the Haruhi/FMP/etc franchises could do much better.
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2012-01-08, 00:39 | Link #920 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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Haruhi hasn't even gotten to the point of being neglected yet, so all this fan demand and what not just comes across as obnoxious self-entitlement.
It hasn't even been two years yet since the last animated work. The lastest novels 10 and 11 were released back in May and June of last year. Barely 6 and 7 months have passed since then. People need to wait longer before they even begin to complain about Haruhi being left out in the cold. They havn't even given KyoAni an opportunity to showcase another season yet, let alone a break from the franchise to avoid project fatigue. They'll get around to it eventually. There's no need to make a fuss right now. If they want to sit on the franchise for a bit, that's that. Nothing we can do to change that and they can afford to do such a thing. Haruhi has already grown to a point and proven that it can take it.
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Last edited by brocko; 2012-01-08 at 00:51. |
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