Campione!(カンピオーネ!) [Light Novel]

[bakapervert]

^ I guess this kind of discussion is just the matter of which series or characters you're liking/rooting more. As for me, I don't care how much stronger or broken the god-tier character of Dxd are, Campione still has a chance to beat them, considering that's what their character concept are, beating the unbeatable. Screw logic.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Ddraig is a mythological figure, so information about him is available, especially when you factor in spirit vision, though whether he counts a s a god is debatable. In any case, while Ise isn't Ddraig, his power comes from Ddraig, and we know that when Ddraig isn't in top condition, Balance Breaker is unusable.

On Draig, yes. But Draig is a different being than when he was famous, which renders the sword useless (this is done in Campione by multiple opponents). And it isn't debatable if he is a god, he isn't. There is one God dragon, and that's Ophis.

Originally Posted by Endscape

You've misunderstood divine speed. It's not moving point A to point B at X mph, but moving from point A to point B in X amount of time. Thusly, there are a lot of applications that Issei would find hard to deal with, like changing the rate of descent to the point where he can float in midair and other tricks.

So it is repeatedly stated. However, it is also mentioned that the authority gives his attacks "the speed of lightning" and that isn't fast in DxD. It isn't even par for course. And Ise can fly at will. So he can do all that stuff as well.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Godou is immune to magic, so Dragon Shot won't work on him. As for physical blows, his bones are tougher than iron, and he managed to tank 1 of Luo Hao's blows, so Ise's attacks aren't an issue.

First, that's a no limits fallacy. Second, it isn't even an applicable one, since it isn't immunity but a resistance to attacks below the level of Gods and Campiones. Luo Haos magic shockwaves can hurt him, so unless you believe that magic shockwaves aren't magic, then this doesn't work.

Finally, Ise is physically stronger than every character shown in Campione thus far by an enormous margin. Iron doesn't mean squat to someone who can punch holes in dimensions.

You don't seem to be understanding that what is considered strong in Campione is at best everyday in DxD. That's just how the stories are written.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Godou has dealt with similar things and made it through.

Really? A barrage of attacks that are individually on par with the strongest attack used in his series? Like what, exactly?

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by XFire

On Draig, yes. But Draig is a different being than when he was famous, which renders the sword useless (this is done in Campione by multiple opponents). And it isn't debatable if he is a god, he isn't. There is one God dragon, and that's Ophis.



So it is repeatedly stated. However, it is also mentioned that the authority gives his attacks "the speed of lightning" and that isn't fast in DxD. It isn't even par for course. And Ise can fly at will. So he can do all that stuff as well.



First, that's a no limits fallacy. Second, it isn't even an applicable one, since it isn't immunity but a resistance to attacks below the level of Gods and Campiones. Luo Haos magic shockwaves can hurt him, so unless you believe that magic shockwaves aren't magic, then this doesn't work.

Finally, Ise is physically stronger than every character shown in Campione thus far by an enormous margin. Iron doesn't mean squat to someone who can punch holes in dimensions.

You don't seem to be understanding that what is considered strong in Campione is at best everyday in DxD. That's just how the stories are written.



Really? A barrage of attacks that are individually on par with the strongest attack used in his series? Like what, exactly?

No, that's only in a limited space used in the Game. Every single battle after that, he can't produce the same thing. It's basically the force combined of Ise and Sairaorg that distorted a weak artificial space . To punch holes in dimension, Ise needs to be on par with Ophis and Great Red or the like.
And I'm pretty sure you guys underestimate Campioneverse's speed. It's pretty much relativistic since they can basically dodged lightspeed attack rapidly with few maneuvers.
If we follow OBD stats, even Kiba (is stated to be one of the fastest in teh verse) at most are hypersonic+ speed.
Basically, DxD has the durability and strength and Campione has speed and hax. Just stop here, guys. It's basically a Jojo vs Fist of North Star now.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by XFire

On Draig, yes. But Draig is a different being than when he was famous, which renders the sword useless (this is done in Campione by multiple opponents). And it isn't debatable if he is a god, he isn't. There is one God dragon, and that's Ophis.

We've seen gods deflect the sword by manifesting incarnations based on myths that are fundamentally different than the one used in their main identity, like what Athena did, not by being different. No matter how different Ddraig may become or how his personality changes, at his core, he's still the Welsh Dragon. The argument that Ddraig isn't a god is a much better one, but the definition of gods in both series is so different between that we can't really come up with a good answer.

So it is repeatedly stated. However, it is also mentioned that the authority gives his attacks "the speed of lightning" and that isn't fast in DxD. It isn't even par for course.

You've heard of metaphor, right? That's what that is.

And Ise can fly at will. So he can do all that stuff as well.

Ise's speed is bound to the laws of physics, so no he can't.

First, that's a no limits fallacy. Second, it isn't even an applicable one, since it isn't immunity but a resistance to attacks below the level of Gods and Campiones. Luo Haos magic shockwaves can hurt him, so unless you believe that magic shockwaves aren't magic, then this doesn't work.

You're assuming that Ise's Dragon Shots are on the same level as a Campione's authority. We've seen that Ise's Dragon Shots basically do squat against gods no matter their strength, and a godslayer's magic resistance is on that level.

Finally, Ise is physically stronger than every character shown in Campione thus far by an enormous margin. Iron doesn't mean squat to someone who can punch holes in dimensions.

Are you serious? Luo Hao once threw a giant pig monster into obit with sheer muscle strength and you think Ise is stronger than that?

Really? A barrage of attacks that are individually on par with the strongest attack used in his series? Like what, exactly?

You should reread Campione Volume 13.

[lived_1714]

Loki did deflect Issei's dragon shot in Vol 7, but his hand burned and he didn't negate it. Loki is also a god. Basically I think in BB Issei can damage Campione and god, the aura around him allows that happen. JD Vali subdued Fenrir, so True Queen can do a same with some difficult.

About Luo Hao, she used Buddha palm to send the pig? Not her own muscle strength?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Endscape

We've seen gods deflect the sword by manifesting incarnations based on myths that are fundamentally different than the one used in their main identity, like what Athena did, not by being different. No matter how different Ddraig may become or how his personality changes, at his core, he's still the Welsh Dragon. The argument that Ddraig isn't a god is a much better one, but the definition of gods in both series is so different between that we can't really come up with a good answer.

Yeah, except I'm not talking about his personality but his actual definition as a living being. A

Originally Posted by Endscape

You've heard of metaphor, right? That's what that is.

Yes, and after re-reading a couple chapters, I came across this little tidbit.

All said and done, god-like speed was only akin to lightning. It was not light speed.

This is a direct quote from volume nine. So you're right, it isn't lightning speed. It's slower.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Ise's speed is bound to the laws of physics, so no he can't.

I said he could fly. As in move in all three dimensions freely. That would include the incredible feats of slowing down and speeding up.

Originally Posted by Endscape

You're assuming that Ise's Dragon Shots are on the same level as a Campione's authority. We've seen that Ise's Dragon Shots basically do squat against gods no matter their strength, and a godslayer's magic resistance is on that level.

Against DxD gods, yes. But DxD gods can blow apart entire countries through brute force. Campione gods can't come close to that.

Let me lay this out for you. The absolute strongest attacks used in Campione thus far are the Sword of Heaven and Earth and the Divine Sword of Salvation. The Sword of Heaven and Earth has a feat of vaporizing a small island at full power.

Ise, immediately after gaining his BB and w/o using Boost at all, fired a single shot that vaporized a mountain. This was a third of the way through current volumes, and he has grow exponentially stronger since then. His first use of Crimson Cardinal (the blaster one) would have blown away a city sized dimension if it hadn't been blocked. Casual attacks from him and an equal tore up a separate dimension that was specifically created for demons to fight each other in.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Are you serious? Luo Hao once threw a giant pig monster into obit with sheer muscle strength and you think Ise is stronger than that?

First, she used her avatar in the shape of a giant fist. Did you even read this?

Second, yes. I think someone who can tear a city apart if he doesn't hold back is stronger than her.

Originally Posted by Endscape

You should reread Campione Volume 13.

You mean the one that shows a single attack of that magnitude and treats it like the world is ending? Like I said, Ise could launch a continuous barrage of those attacks.


I have said this over and over by now, but the two series operate on different scales. The ability to destroy an island or move at lightning speed just isn't impressive in the DxD verse.

[Ickarium]

I shouldn't've brought it up. Now we have 'My Series Is Better Than Yours' silliness.

(For the record, I enjoy both. But people on /both sides/ are twisting things IMO to support which series they prefer.)

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I shouldn't've brought it up. Now we have 'My Series Is Better Than Yours' silliness.

(For the record, I enjoy both. But people on /both sides/ are twisting things IMO to support which series they prefer.)

It's the basic for every versus thread. Get used to it, man.

[lived_1714]

Equalize everything!

Back to Campione! please.

So... How did Uldin beat the god had the hax razor?

[XFire]

But I wasn't done arguing yet....Oh fine.

About the razor, he has a couple of authorities that work at long range (Dragons, skeleton soldiers) so he probably just sniped it to death.

[Feng Lengshun]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

^ I guess this kind of discussion is just the matter of which series or characters you're liking/rooting more. As for me, I don't care how much stronger or broken the god-tier character of Dxd are, Campione still has a chance to beat them, considering that's what their character concept are, beating the unbeatable. Screw logic.

Outskirt BattleDome dude. We don't operate on author logics and rule of cool. We operate through calcs and feats. We operate on hard facts and arguments.

And sometimes even I was amazed by the results. Relativistic Touhou ftw.

On [Sword], we were workig under the assumption that it is usable against Issei as some sort of compromise so as nit to tip the scale too heavily on Issei's favor.

[lived_1714]

It's one of a few Authority actually cannot be used by a Campione.

Possibly Erica will have one in the future.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, except I'm not talking about his personality but his actual definition as a living being. A



Yes, and after re-reading a couple chapters, I came across this little tidbit.



This is a direct quote from volume nine. So you're right, it isn't lightning speed. It's slower.



I said he could fly. As in move in all three dimensions freely. That would include the incredible feats of slowing down and speeding up.



Against DxD gods, yes. But DxD gods can blow apart entire countries through brute force. Campione gods can't come close to that.

Let me lay this out for you. The absolute strongest attacks used in Campione thus far are the Sword of Heaven and Earth and the Divine Sword of Salvation. The Sword of Heaven and Earth has a feat of vaporizing a small island at full power.

Ise, immediately after gaining his BB and w/o using Boost at all, fired a single shot that vaporized a mountain. This was a third of the way through current volumes, and he has grow exponentially stronger since then. His first use of Crimson Cardinal (the blaster one) would have blown away a city sized dimension if it hadn't been blocked. Casual attacks from him and an equal tore up a separate dimension that was specifically created for demons to fight each other in.



First, she used her avatar in the shape of a giant fist. Did you even read this?

Second, yes. I think someone who can tear a city apart if he doesn't hold back is stronger than her.



You mean the one that shows a single attack of that magnitude and treats it like the world is ending? Like I said, Ise could launch a continuous barrage of those attacks.


I have said this over and over by now, but the two series operate on different scales. The ability to destroy an island or move at lightning speed just isn't impressive in the DxD verse.

The Sword of Heaven and Earth destroyed the island when it's merely unsealed.
And Ise needs to change to Bishop to actual wipe out the copy of Kyoto. And that's already exhausted him greatly.
And please give me some feat of DxD characters actually dodge an actual lightspeed attack.
The space around the fight of Ise and Sairaorg is made for Young and Beginner in Rating Game. It's not like they expected to tank a full fight between two Balance Breaker Longinus Sacred Gear users.

[Feng Lengshun]

Originally Posted by lived_1714

It's one of a few Authority actually cannot be used by a Campione.

Possibly Erica will have one in the future.

It makes me wonder though: If there's at least one artifact that could actually be used to kill a Campione, then are there others?

And I'm calling it an artifact because, well, it doesn't seem to be a sentient/godly weapon like Ama and I don't think there's any mention of a God owning it before.

[lived_1714]

Originally Posted by Ken Sanders

What if a story where Godou met with Rias and Erika met with Ise?

I'm sure the outcome of that story could be interesting in its own.

Godou meets Rias, Rias will know she cannot revive Godou into her Peerage, so likely they won't see each others too much.

Issei meets Erica, er... When? If it's V-tan time then Issei will... die? If he knows a beauty like Erica is involved then he will go batshit crazy, his Boosted Gear would come out afterward, but then he didn't strong enough to kill V-tan or Melqart, so either the story ends or he pulls out something like Godou.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun

It makes me wonder though: If there's at least one artifact that could actually be used to kill a Campione, then are there others?

And I'm calling it an artifact because, well, it doesn't seem to be a sentient/godly weapon like Ama and I don't think there's any mention of a God owning it before.

There's maybe artifact that can be used to fight against Gods and Campiones like the tome in vol 3. Maybe they are too dangerous for normal mages humans to use. And Uldin's wives must be at least high Great Knight to Paladino level.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, except I'm not talking about his personality but his actual definition as a living being. A

It seems you've left off some of your post. In any case, Ddraig's identity as the Welsh Dragon hasn't changed at all

Yes, and after re-reading a couple chapters, I came across this little tidbit.



This is a direct quote from volume nine. So you're right, it isn't lightning speed. It's slower.

How did you get that godspeed is slower than lightning there? All it said was that it's slower than the speed of light.

Anyways, you've still misunderstood godspeed. It's real merit is the fact that it has nothing to do with the laws of physics, so it can employ movements that are technically impossible, to the point that it's like controlling time.

I said he could fly. As in move in all three dimensions freely. That would include the incredible feats of slowing down and speeding up.

Can Ise go from full speed to a full stop instantly? Without slowing down at all?

Against DxD gods, yes. But DxD gods can blow apart entire countries through brute force. Campione gods can't come close to that.

... Where on Earth did you get that from? Campione gods can destroy countries easily.

Let me lay this out for you. The absolute strongest attacks used in Campione thus far are the Sword of Heaven and Earth and the Divine Sword of Salvation. The Sword of Heaven and Earth has a feat of vaporizing a small island at full power.

You really think that that is the strongest attack in the series? Now I see your misunderstanding. That's still not all that impressive in Campione. JPS can destroy all of California in a single attack, Melqart can sink islands the size of Sardinia on a whim.

Not to mention, you've underestimated the Sword of Heaven and Earth. It stopped at the island because there was nothing else for it to destroy, plus Godou still couldn't control it well.

Ise, immediately after gaining his BB and w/o using Boost at all, fired a single shot that vaporized a mountain. This was a third of the way through current volumes, and he has grow exponentially stronger since then. His first use of Crimson Cardinal (the blaster one) would have blown away a city sized dimension if it hadn't been blocked. Casual attacks from him and an equal tore up a separate dimension that was specifically created for demons to fight each other in.

Your point? Campione's can destroy cities easily, Voban used to do that for fun.Mountains are nothing. Luo Hao destroyed one with her bare hands.

As for destroying the Rating game dimension, those are fake, so sufficient force will cause them to distort. When Ise can distort reality in the real world with his blows, then you can bring it up.

First, she used her avatar in the shape of a giant fist. Did you even read this?

That should be my line.

In case you weren't aware, Luo Hao's avatars manifest so that she can use her full strength, something that's unfeasible with the body of a human. The fact that she was able to launch something that must have weighed thousands of tonnes into orbit with pure physical force is still astonishing.

Second, yes. I think someone who can tear a city apart if he doesn't hold back is stronger than her.

She can do the same easily, so...

You mean the one that shows a single attack of that magnitude and treats it like the world is ending? Like I said, Ise could launch a continuous barrage of those attacks.

Ise can launch thousands of attacks like Odysseus could? Since when?

[lived_1714]

Originally Posted by Endscape

... Where on Earth did you get that from? Campione gods can destroy countries easily.

That's in statement only, both verse haven't showed anyone destroy countries.

Originally Posted by Endscape

You really think that that is the strongest attack in the series? Now I see your misunderstanding. That's still not all that impressive in Campione. JPS can destroy all of California in a single attack, Melqart can sink islands the size of Sardinia on a whim.

Burn the California in 7 days and 7 nights after shooting all 6 bullets, needs to wait so no second shot if the first one is dodged or negated. Also burn, not vanquish like what Issei did with the mountain in Vol 5. Melqart used rain and storm, which needed time.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Your point? Campione's can destroy cities easily, Voban used to do that for fun.Mountains are nothing. Luo Hao destroyed one with her bare hands.

Again, Voban uses natural force like tornado to destroy a city, while DxD verse characters use their own powers. The flame is the same case as JPS.

Originally Posted by Endscape

As for destroying the Rating game dimension, those are fake, so sufficient force will cause them to distort. When Ise can distort reality in the real world with his blows, then you can bring it up.

Vol 6 how much force had been used? While the dimension didn't be destroyed?

Originally Posted by Endscape

That should be my line.

In case you weren't aware, Luo Hao's avatars manifest so that she can use her full strength, something that's unfeasible with the body of a human. The fact that she was able to launch something that must have weighed thousands of tonnes into orbit with pure physical force is still astonishing.

She can do the same easily, so...

She did that with the aid of her authority. Like Issei punches with the aid of his armor. Campione is still sub-human.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Ise can launch thousands of attacks like Odysseus could? Since when?

How many fists had he launched in Vol 10? Now replace it with non-Boost Dragon shot Vol 5 power level. He can use shotgun-shell dragon shot, too.

Equalize everything!

[Breimoon]

If we consider warrior as usable then Godou wins 10/10 cause issei will not be able to use boost
God speed can reach easily light speed and coupled with attack boosting authority it is lethal

Godou fired the new swords and the white-colored sun shot a beam of bright light like a laser. The delicate swords of light were able to lock on to the godly fast Handsome Monkey King, and whizzed past over his head.
"Such heat!? And to think it even moved faster than me!? Impossible!"
Only a few strands of fur were singed, but contact was definitely made. Melding the embodiment of the sun, the [White Stallion], with the [Sword], the result was this beam of light — a light speed weapon.
This move did not lose to the Great Sage Equaling Heaven's god speed, perhaps it even offered a chance for victory!?

The only chance for Issei to win against Godou would to go full metal armor and fly but then Godou could use magnetism on him and throw him in orbit thus ending in a sort of draw.
If Godou can win without warrior depends if the gravity attack can be defeated or not cause Issei should be able to resist/dodge the sun attack and his strenght should be about par with metal boar.

[Spica]

When you guys talk about fanfic...an idea struck me.

JPS inherited Oberon's duties and obligations from him along with an authority. What if the same happened to Godou with KOTE?