Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Pt. 2 Rebirth

[Kanon]

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

Kitase is saying that the story will keep following the original game's story despite the changes, but I'm not sure I should believe that.

Them not knowing how many installment they're going to make is worrisome. A trilogy would have been fine, any more than that would be overkill. And I hadn't thought of it yesterday but after reading some posts, the whole Zack thing could be them trying to milk FFVII even more by making a Crisis Core 2.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

Kitase is saying that the story will keep following the original game's story despite the changes, but I'm not sure I should believe that.

Them not knowing how many installment they're going to make is worrisome. A trilogy would have been fine, any more than that would be overkill. And I hadn't thought of it yesterday but after reading some posts, the whole Zack thing could be them trying to milk FFVII even more by making a Crisis Core 2.

I think the reason them not knowing about it is concern about game size.
What if you wanted to make it trilogy but technology said "two more installment for Gold Saucer and Junon"; Midgar became a living city with some coordinated dance pleased me but TBH kinda make me worried if they intended to remake Gold Saucer the same way with every possible interactions there.

Spoiler for Ending:

I doubt we will go Crisis Core 2 as that would downplayed Zack a lot after CC transform him from NPC into the 'real' hero;
What comes to my mind is "What If" DLC telling what happened if Zack manages to met Aerith until Whispers kick in and kill him. It would be nice way to gave proper ending to his relationship with Tseng as well as Cissnei, which he unable to contact in CC after he became experiment subject together with Cloud.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

Kitase is saying that the story will keep following the original game's story despite the changes, but I'm not sure I should believe that.

Them not knowing how many installment they're going to make is worrisome. A trilogy would have been fine, any more than that would be overkill. And I hadn't thought of it yesterday but after reading some posts, the whole Zack thing could be them trying to milk FFVII even more by making a Crisis Core 2.

Well if they will aim to make a set number like a trilogy then the next game will probably take another 4-5 years to come out. Nomura did say he wants the next game released ASAP

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

Well if they will aim to make a set number like a trilogy then the next game will probably take another 4-5 years to come out. Nomura did say he wants the next game released ASAP

I'd rather wait a few extra years and have just two more games that cover the rest of the story than having a game padded to hell and back every two years for who knows how long like this one. Now, I enjoyed the game a lot, but you could cut about half the content and lose nothing. There were quite a few moments I found super boring, like the beginning of chapter 9 (those shitty robot arms) and the entirety of chapter 11. Or the majority of the side-quests.

I think 3 is a good number. It's symbolic as well since it's the same number of disks as the original game. More than that, assuming they all last 40 hours like this one, would be overkill for me.

I've been meaning to ask, what did you think of Roche? To me, he's the single most pointless addition in the entire game. I don't even know why they advertised him in the trailers given how irrelevant and annoying he was. I'm sure they'll have him pop up in future games, but I have zero expectations for his storyline.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

I personally like that they fleshed out the characters more in this remake with the added content. And hey you get to spend more time with Aerith in that collapse expressway so I'm not complaining. I love that scene of Aerith trying to get Cloud to high five

Originally Posted by Kanon

I've been meaning to ask, what did you think of Roche? To me, he's the single most pointless addition in the entire game. I don't even know why they advertised him in the trailers given how irrelevant and annoying he was. I'm sure they'll have him pop up in future games, but I have zero expectations for his storyline.

I thought it was interesting to see another SOLDIER other the well known ones, even if Roche is only a third class one. But I don't believe he'll play a huge part in the sequels.

[Klashikari]

Unless PS5 incredibly improves their options for the environments and world map, I still doubt they can deliver the rest of the remake series with just 2 games, considering how they barely scratched 20% of disc 1 with the first release. That would mean they have to go through Kalm village until the Temple of the Ancients, which would give barely any room for additional stuff (and you bet they will flesh out some lack luster parts of OG FF7 like Wutai).

Personally, the way how sidequests work are definitely on the meh side, since you don't exactly do much aside of fedex quests and mob extermination.
On the flip side, I find them interested regarding the world building and stuff (like the kids, Folia tied to Biggs and so forth).

Spoiler for More details up to chap 18:

Chapter 11 is sort of fine to me because it involves spectres in general and some glimpse regarding Aerith. So it actually gives some themes regarding spiritual stuff aside of the whispers, which are pretty much tied to a complete different plot point.

On the flipside, Chapter 14 is the true padding stuff. Revisiting the sewers wasn't particularly engaging since you basically had to run after a mob "just because", Corneo hiding in the sewers instead of far away from Midgar doesn't really make much sense, and Leslie backstory was too much in-your-face in my books. It also baffled me that they did that just for some beefed up grappling guns, even though Avalanche was shown using normal ones for Reactor 5 operation, so I'm pretty sure access to the upper plate could be possible if they just worked on grappling guns with improvements in mind instead of relying on Corneo, moreso they acknowledged other cells for Avalanche organization.

As for Roche, I agree with NAJ: it is actually nice to see actual Soldier instead of faceless mooks. The only thing that puzzles me a lot is the fact he doesn't show up in chapter 18 at all. I expect him to act as a pseudo recurrent antagonist for the future game, but if he doesn't, then he was truly wasted.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Unless PS5 incredibly improves their options for the environments and world map, I still doubt they can deliver the rest of the remake series with just 2 games, considering how they barely scratched 20% of disc 1 with the first release. That would mean they have to go through Kalm village until the Temple of the Ancients, which would give barely any room for additional stuff (and you bet they will flesh out some lack luster parts of OG FF7 like Wutai).

Personally, the way how sidequests work are definitely on the meh side, since you don't exactly do much aside of fedex quests and mob extermination.
On the flip side, I find them interested regarding the world building and stuff (like the kids, Folia tied to Biggs).

Spoiler for More details up to chap 18:

Chapter 11 is sort of fine to me because it involves the ghost stuff and some glimpse regarding Aerith.

On the flipside, Chapter 14 is the true padding stuff. Revisiting the sewers wasn't particularly engaging since you basically had to run after a mob "just because", Corneo hiding in the sewers instead of far away from Midgar doesn't really make much sense, and Leslie backstory was too much in-your-face in my books. It also baffled me that they did that just for some beefed up grappling guns, even though Avalanche was shown using normal ones for Reactor 5 operation, so I'm pretty sure access to the upper plate could be possible if they just worked on grappling guns like that instead of relying on Corneo.

As for Roche, I agree with NAJ: it is actually nice to see actual Soldier instead of faceless mooks. The only thing that puzzles me a lot is the fact he doesn't show up in chapter 18 at all. I expect him to act as a pseudo recurrent antagonist for the future game, but if he doesn't, then he was truly wasted.

Yeah, if they gonna aim for a trilogy then it's gonna be inevitable that they will cut a few events from the OG game and that would suck.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Unless PS5 incredibly improves their options for the environments and world map, I still doubt they can deliver the rest of the remake series with just 2 games, considering how they barely scratched 20% of disc 1 with the first release. That would mean they have to go through Kalm village until the Temple of the Ancients, which would give barely any room for additional stuff (and you bet they will flesh out some lack luster parts of OG FF7 like Wutai).

Personally, the way how sidequests work are definitely on the meh side, since you don't exactly do much aside of fedex quests and mob extermination.
On the flip side, I find them interested regarding the world building and stuff (like the kids, Folia tied to Biggs and so forth).

Spoiler for More details up to chap 18:

Chapter 11 is sort of fine to me because it involves spectres in general and some glimpse regarding Aerith. So it actually gives some themes regarding spiritual stuff aside of the whispers, which are pretty much tied to a complete different plot point.

On the flipside, Chapter 14 is the true padding stuff. Revisiting the sewers wasn't particularly engaging since you basically had to run after a mob "just because", Corneo hiding in the sewers instead of far away from Midgar doesn't really make much sense, and Leslie backstory was too much in-your-face in my books. It also baffled me that they did that just for some beefed up grappling guns, even though Avalanche was shown using normal ones for Reactor 5 operation, so I'm pretty sure access to the upper plate could be possible if they just worked on grappling guns with improvements in mind instead of relying on Corneo, moreso they acknowledged other cells for Avalanche organization.

As for Roche, I agree with NAJ: it is actually nice to see actual Soldier instead of faceless mooks. The only thing that puzzles me a lot is the fact he doesn't show up in chapter 18 at all. I expect him to act as a pseudo recurrent antagonist for the future game, but if he doesn't, then he was truly wasted.

The amount of side-quests that helps build the world up are sadly very small. I liked the ones from chapter 8 the most because it felt we were diving into Aerith's daily life.

Spoiler for chapter 18:

I thought for sure Roche was going to show up for the infamous Midgar escape too, but nope. I found that extremely odd, since his entire character is basically "SOLDIER who loves bikes". It's almost like they just forgot about him.

And while it is nice to see a SOLDIER that isn't a faceless mook, him just being third class doesn't make him feel like much of a threat. And while I didn't like Roche himself, I loved the rest of chapter 4. Best new content in the game.

Chapter 14 was pretty bad too, yeah. And the entire part in Hojo's lab in chapter 17 was also super boring.

The more I think about it, the more I think they made a huge mistake padding Midgar like that and that it may come to bite them in the ass later. There wasn't another good stopping point in the OG game until much later, true, but they could have just created one. I mean, it's not like they didn't make massive changes to this remake.

[Wandering Soul]

My take on Roche is the same as everyone' else's: it was nice to see another SOLIDER, but that's really it. I can see him as another minor antagonist down the line, but I'm not expecting much from him.

[Tactics]

As much I myself bored by the 'fed-ex' side-quest, its ironically Cloud job after defeating Sephiroth as you can see in AC; made me thought, is this the reason why he do delivery service after OG? Then again, maybe I'm overthinking it. At least looking around while doing side-quest is fun enough, people of the slums with each of their daily topics.

My impression about Roche is, unlike others; I felt that he's intended just so you can enjoy bike on new-gen console more.
I find it difficult to like him when I know on very same game there's Shin-Ra security guard recognize Cloud, with Kunsel name thrown, his senpai who also Zack best friend during his 3rd class days. Made me think, "Why it have to be Roche instead of Kunsel" after Leslie who is character from AC side-materials. I can imagine both Nomura and Kitase agree to made him for that single purpose so Midgar can keep one of it most appealing part within game size limitation instead of potentially derailing the game by having more CC characters details there.

As for dividing parts, Remake first part already simplified early part of 'Cloud inner problem' issue that I'm OK not going to Kalm.
That leaving Avalanche, Rocket, Wutai, Rufus, Gold Saucer, Nibelheim, Ancients, Weapons, Vincent tie-in and Omnislash, probably with Costa Del Sol too as everyone wanted their own villa also potential beach scenes.



We can make guess which part get cut or modified (digging Lunar Harp, desert prison, etc.) but fitting all of it into two installment with similar scale as Midgar is something else unless they goes full Eva Rebuild and make the order somewhat different. Zack timeline stuffs can go to DLC.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Tactics

My impression about Roche is, unlike others; I felt that he's intended just so you can enjoy bike on new-gen console more.
I find it difficult to like him when I know on very same game there's Shin-Ra security guard recognize Cloud, with Kunsel name thrown, his senpai who also Zack best friend during his 3rd class days. Made me think, "Why it have to be Roche instead of Kunsel" after Leslie who is character from AC side-materials. I can imagine both Nomura and Kitase agree to made him for that single purpose so Midgar can keep one of it most appealing part within game size limitation instead of potentially derailing the game by having more CC characters details there.

Had to google who Kunsel is since I didn't play Crisis Core. They couldn't include him at this point because he knows too much about Cloud.

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

And Whispers would have probably prevented them from meeting because of that.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Tactics

As much I myself bored by the 'fed-ex' side-quest, its ironically Cloud job after defeating Sephiroth as you can see in AC; made me thought, is this the reason why he do delivery service after OG? Then again, maybe I'm overthinking it. At least looking around while doing side-quest is fun enough, people of the slums with each of their daily topics.

Perhaps someone more familiar with the Japanese can correct me, but don't they use the word "nandemo" (which can mean freelancer) for Cloud's occupation instead of "youhei" which is the more typical word for mercenary?

[Klashikari]

Yes, his occupation in JP is 何でも屋, which basically means jack of all trade, general store/merchant or handyman. I don't recall that term to be used for freelancer at all. Not sure why they used merc in the first place considering the side quests involving kids as clients and non fighting ones, moreso they are officially named "odd jobs".

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Yes, his occupation in JP is 何でも屋, which basically means jack of all trade, general store/merchant or handyman. I don't recall that term to be used for freelancer at all. Not sure why they used merc in the first place considering the side quests involving kids as clients and non fighting ones, moreso they are officially named "odd jobs".

If you don't mind, do you know the name of the Whispers in Japanese? It sounds like "feelers" (which the French translation romanized as "fileurs") but I have no idea if it's supposed to be an actual word or just a made-up one.

[Klashikari]

The JP term used for them is フィーラー.

Spoiler for Chapter 18:

Some native JP with EN knowledge believe it is indeed supposed to be "feeler". This can be tied to what Aerith said, as they represent the voices of the planet, as such the feelings of those who lived and died on Gaia, and thus "someone/something who feels/touch".

Alternatively, if it is indeed supposed to be from French, it somewhat makes sense too because "Fileurs" could imply they are like thread spinners, basically spinning fate itself. But in that case, the most logical transliteration would have been フィルル. Note that katakana transliteration is never consistent so there is that too.

In any case, the scenarists probably made a funky waseigo word. It doesn't exist outside of FF7R.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Yes, his occupation in JP is 何でも屋, which basically means jack of all trade, general store/merchant or handyman. I don't recall that term to be used for freelancer at all. Not sure why they used merc in the first place considering the side quests involving kids as clients and non fighting ones, moreso they are officially named "odd jobs".

The original FF7's translation called them mercenaries, so it stuck. I never questioned it since I've never seen or read the Japanese version, and because in Cloud's case back then, all he did was fight.

Now that I think back to the truck scene with Zack, it makes a lot more sense.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The JP term used for them is フィーラー.

Spoiler for Chapter 18:

Some native JP with EN knowledge believe it is indeed supposed to be "feeler". This can be tied to what Aerith said, as they represent the voices of the planet, as such the feelings of those who lived and died on Gaia, and thus "someone/something who feels/touch".

Alternatively, if it is indeed supposed to be from French, it somewhat makes sense too because "Fileurs" could imply they are like thread spinners, basically spinning fate itself. But in that case, the most logical transliteration would have been フィルル. Note that katakana transliteration is never consistent so there is that too.

In any case, the scenarists probably made a funky waseigo word. It doesn't exist outside of FF7R.

Thanks! I knew it wasn't a Japanese word but didn't know if it was supposed to be a foreign one (Feeler feels right to me) or just a term they completely made up.

[Klashikari]

For those who didn't fancy the idea of buying butterfinger candy bars (or asking someone to do that if you weren't a US resident) for Tifa's dynamic theme, it is available for free on JP/Asia PSN. No string attached to it, so pretty much available to anyone with a JP account linked to their PS4.

[Kanon]

So, in the end, do you think this game ended up being friendly to newcomers?

Spoiler for Ending spoilers:

I mean, it does a great job introducing the main characters and setting up the main plot, but the major storyline of this installment itself revolved around the Whispers in the end. I can't help but think someone who hasn't played the original would be quite lost. The Zack scene in particular must make no sense. It's already confusing enough for OG players

It's also quite clear after playing the game and reading interviews that this remake is not meant to replace the original. I don't know about you, but I've actually been itching to replay the original (haven't done so since the compilation came out, I think) to refresh my memory and find out what exactly was changed. If I had known the story was going to be a sequel of sorts, I would have replayed it before. In fact, I didn't replay it on purpose to enjoy the story anew, which kinda ended up backfiring on me. I'm sure there are a ton of stuff I didn't pick up on. The game just so happens to be on promotion on the PS store right now, which is definitely not a coincidence. They have anticipated people, both new and old players, would want to (re)play it.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

For me who hasn't played the OG game this remake actually made me want to play it now knowing that this new game is not a 1:1 remaster. I want to play the OG game so that I can compare on what the difference between the two game will be in the sequels. So I guess mission accomplished for them if that was what they set up to do.