Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Its also funny how Lacus is more devastated over Meer's death than the time her dad got killed.

She did? And here I was under the impression we weren't privy to her reaction to her father's death... What episode did I overlook?

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

This episode's still as awkward as I remember it. As for Meer, I think her character arc is pretty much over the moment Durandal consider her useless. After that, I think there are basically two routes available for her in Destiny: either she survived the assassination and end up living happily somewhere (with some help from TSA), or die. Or maybe they could go Tomino and made Meer survive the shot, but became a human veggie like a certain MC from UC, just to constantly remind us how 'cruel' Durandal is .

I've had this idea that if Meer survived, she'd make a great body-double/guard for Lacus. Like "You thought it was Lacus? Too bad, it's Meer! " and then she breaks a guy's arm, because as it turns out she's a real killer with a little training under her wing.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

As for Meer, I think her character arc is pretty much over the moment Durandal consider her useless.

Actually, if she had just continued playing her part and let Lacus be killed, Durandal would probably have no problem to continue using her service, at least until the Destiny Plan is implemented and they find a more suitable job for her.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

She did? And here I was under the impression we weren't privy to her reaction to her father's death... What episode did I overlook?

She had two episodes where she reacted, IIRC. The first in which she learned the news, and the second when she confessed it to Kira. Episode 41 when she was told (same episode in which he was killed), and episode 42 for her telling Kira about it.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

She did? And here I was under the impression we weren't privy to her reaction to her father's death... What episode did I overlook?

Lacus held her grief back for weeks. It wasn't until she was alone with Kira that she lost her composure after holding a casual conversation with him. She goes from "normal" Lacus to a girl crying her eyes out for her father in half a second.

Lacus stayed strong for her father and their faction, but she never talked to anyone about it until that time with Kira. It was really beautiful.

[Blazer-X]

*Sigh* I was hoping they'd just cut Meer's second episode out. For what its worth, I feel like this episode already gives enough closure to her character. She got her redemption and death here, and we already have a good sense of her reasoning and manipulation by Durandal, so it feels totally forced to sit through another episode of basically the same thing with a magnifying glass.

It would have been sufficient if they just cut the next episode out and have her funeral service play during credits (instead of the ED).

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

I've had this idea that if Meer survived, she'd make a great body-double/guard for Lacus. Like "You thought it was Lacus? Too bad, it's Meer! " and then she breaks a guy's arm, because as it turns out she's a real killer with a little training under her wing.

In order to be that good, she needs some ‘bodyguard-ing’ training from Athrun first for a period of time. And by doing that, you pretty much throw AthrunxMeer shippers a bone to devour (for better or worse ).

Originally Posted by monster

Actually, if she had just continued playing her part and let Lacus be killed, Durandal would probably have no problem to continue using her service, at least until the Destiny Plan is implemented and they find a more suitable job for her.

I’m actually aware of that, but (knowing Fukuda/Morosawa) there is zero chance they’ll make Lacus dead. You’ll get more luck waiting hell freezes over than waiting Lacus getting killed. That’s why I scratched that possibility coz it’s pretty much DOA .

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

*Sigh* I was hoping they'd just cut Meer's second episode out. For what its worth, I feel like this episode already gives enough closure to her character. She got her redemption and death here, and we already have a good sense of her reasoning and manipulation by Durandal, so it feels totally forced to sit through another episode of basically the same thing with a magnifying glass.

It would have been sufficient if they just cut the next episode out and have her funeral service play during credits (instead of the ED).

That episode pretty much gave us more insight on what Meer have been thinking. That episode also truly introduces the Destiny Plan.

[Blazer-X]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

That episode pretty much gave us more insight on what Meer have been thinking. That episode also truly introduces the Destiny Plan.

Okay, the Destiny Plan announcement I did forget. I thought that was the episode to follow, not the next one.

Still the whole idea behind Meer's backstory is kind of a waste of time. We already have enough of an idea of her train of thought and why she did what she did. Having her personal insight might "redeem" her a bit more, but honestly, do we really give a damn when the whole premise of the character is to be "fake Lacus"? Honestly, I felt that this episode's ending already created a proper resolution for her. Lacus resolved them being different people despite using the same name and Meer atoned and repaid Lacus's kindness by saving her life (albeit sacrificing her own). Why bother going into the past of a minor character that is already dead?

[CBredbeard]

So taking a bullet for Lacus didn't redeem her lol?

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

Okay, the Destiny Plan announcement I did forget. I thought that was the episode to follow, not the next one.

Still the whole idea behind Meer's backstory is kind of a waste of time. We already have enough of an idea of her train of thought and why she did what she did. Having her personal insight might "redeem" her a bit more, but honestly, do we really give a damn when the whole premise of the character is to be "fake Lacus"? Honestly, I felt that this episode's ending already created a proper resolution for her. Lacus resolved them being different people despite using the same name and Meer atoned and repaid Lacus's kindness by saving her life (albeit sacrificing her own). Why bother going into the past of a minor character that is already dead?

A minor character? Whoa.

[Blazer-X]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

So taking a bullet for Lacus didn't redeem her lol?

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

For what its worth, I feel like this episode already gives enough closure to her character. She got her redemption and death here, and we already have a good sense of her reasoning and manipulation by Durandal, so it feels totally forced to sit through another episode of basically the same thing with a magnifying glass.

As you can see, yes, I do think it redeemed her. Which would make the next episode's "further redemption because we finally know what she was thinking" pointless.

And yes, it is MY OPINION that she is a minor support character. A source of major fan-service, yes. But her whole existence revolves around showcasing Lacus's post-war influence and Durandal's power of deception. She does not have very major influence on the overarching story.

[monster]

In the original series, they probably did it as a delaying tactic if it's true that the scripts were turned in late at this point.

In the remaster, they probably left it in as to not break the timing. This coming episode isn't an actual full recap episode, if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I’m actually aware of that, but (knowing Fukuda/Morosawa) there is zero chance they’ll make Lacus dead. You’ll get more luck waiting hell freezes over than waiting Lacus getting killed. That’s why I scratched that possibility coz it’s pretty much DOA .

Well, yeah.

Still, I thought I'd pointed out that Durandal had not necessarily considered her useless.

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

She had two episodes where she reacted, IIRC. The first in which she learned the news, and the second when she confessed it to Kira. Episode 41 when she was told (same episode in which he was killed), and episode 42 for her telling Kira about it.

I remember her father getting killed, I remember DaCosta answering the phone, saying "Siegel?" and her looking shocked. What I don't remember is us ever watching her action REACTION to her father's death. That seems to have happened off screen. Unless there's a manga or some Special Edition scene we don't know about, we only saw her reaction much later when she spoke to Kira.

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

But her whole existence revolves around showcasing Lacus's post-war influence and Durandal's power of deception.

And reinforce the theme of each person being a unique product, which was kind of important to showcase around the time the Destiny Plan and Rey threads are coming to head...

Originally Posted by monster

In the original series, they probably did it as a delaying tactic if it's true that the scripts were turned in late at this point.

The episode does stink of "let's take this small detail and stretch it for time"...

[weirdguy]

Even if she wasn't turning in the scripts late(unless I see evidence that she was), I also felt that Sunrise wanted to series to be 50 episodes. Some may say that this episode didn't need to be animated instead, and have a better ending for the original run. But I feel that the last episode ended that way was more or less intended. They achieved what they wanted, Shinn in Luna's arms.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by monster

Actually, if she had just continued playing her part and let Lacus be killed, Durandal would probably have no problem to continue using her service, at least until the Destiny Plan is implemented and they find a more suitable job for her.

I'm not sure. Sarah and the assasins started firing at Meer as well even when she was apparantly still playing along.

I think they might have been ordered to take them all out regardless. And with Meer spending all of her time being molded as "Lacus" she probably wouldn't be good for much else.

And since Durandal probably just wanted everyone to forget about Lacus Clyne since he no longer needed her support and didn't want anyone thinking too hard about his rise to power, she'd probably just be a liability.

[weirdguy]

Alright, I feel like changing the topic now. Anyways, since I have time on my hands, I went to track down reasons why many Gundam fans hated SEED Destiny. Reading some of their reasons really make me start to think if they even really watched the show,
1. Kira and Lacus-always right never wrong, too perfect
-This one just makes me left. They practically spent like 90% of the series, especially Kira, wondering what he should do, and that if what they are doing is the correct choice.
2. Athrun went through the same phase he did in SEED
-Honestly, I'm quite surprised that no one actually realized that Athrun haven;t exactly found the answer to his question he asked Kira and Dearka back at Orb. This was even brought up in episode 8 I think.
3. Shinn had no character development.
-Oh this gets me everytime. Apparently character development suddenly had a change of definition. Just because Shinn didn't become someone that they like automatically mean there was no development. Last time I checked, development means change and he surely wasn't the same person from the beginning to middle to end. I still don't understand why people don't get it into their heads that Shinn was meant to lose everything in the end except Luna.
4. Kira had no character development
-This also gets me everytime. He literally spent the whole seires trying to figure out what he should truly be doing, and if what he is doing is the right thing to do. And in the last episode, he finally found what he should and will be doing.
5. Kira and co stole to spotlight.
-Did people really believe that Kira and co wouldn't have a huge role?
6. Destiny was not liek Zeta.
-There is already enough complaining that SEED was way too much like MSG. Imagine how much worst it will get is Destiny was like Zeta...
7. Mu coming back
-I agree with this.
8. Reused animation.
-At least the remaster makes the animation better.
9. Kira surviving Angel Down.
-That was in no way a nuclear explosion. Nuclear reactors don't explode(was surprised about it at first until I looked it up). Second, Kira turned off the reactor, which probably should have turned the n-jammer cancelor off. When that's off, n-jammers come into play which stops any nuclear activity thus a nuclear explosion can't occur.
10. There are those that never watched it and just hates because it's Destiny.
-I have no words for that...

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

9. Kira surviving Angel Down.
-That was in no way a nuclear explosion. Nuclear reactors don't explode(was surprised about it at first until I looked it up). Second, Kira turned off the reactor, which probably should have turned the n-jammer cancelor off. When that's off, n-jammers come into play which stops any nuclear activity thus a nuclear explosion can't occur.

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start...

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

Alright, I feel like changing the topic now. Anyways, since I have time on my hands, I went to track down reasons why many Gundam fans hated SEED Destiny. Reading some of their reasons really make me start to think if they even really watched the show,
1. Kira and Lacus-always right never wrong, too perfect
-This one just makes me left. They practically spent like 90% of the series, especially Kira, wondering what he should do, and that if what they are doing is the correct choice.
2. Athrun went through the same phase he did in SEED
-Honestly, I'm quite surprised that no one actually realized that Athrun haven;t exactly found the answer to his question he asked Kira and Dearka back at Orb. This was even brought up in episode 8 I think.
3. Shinn had no character development.
-Oh this gets me everytime. Apparently character development suddenly had a change of definition. Just because Shinn didn't become someone that they like automatically mean there was no development. Last time I checked, development means change and he surely wasn't the same person from the beginning to middle to end. I still don't understand why people don't get it into their heads that Shinn was meant to lose everything in the end except Luna.
4. Kira had no character development
-This also gets me everytime. He literally spent the whole seires trying to figure out what he should truly be doing, and if what he is doing is the right thing to do. And in the last episode, he finally found what he should and will be doing.
5. Kira and co stole to spotlight.
-Did people really believe that Kira and co wouldn't have a huge role?
6. Destiny was not like Zeta.
-There is already enough complaining that SEED was way too much like MSG. Imagine how much worst it will get is Destiny was like Zeta...
7. Mu coming back
-I agree with this.
8. Reused animation.
-At least the remaster makes the animation better.
9. Kira surviving Angel Down.
-That was in no way a nuclear explosion. Nuclear reactors don't explode(was surprised about it at first until I looked it up). Second, Kira turned off the reactor, which probably should have turned the n-jammer cancelor off. When that's off, n-jammers come into play which stops any nuclear activity thus a nuclear explosion can't occur.
10. There are those that never watched it and just hates because it's Destiny.
-I have no words for that...

I agree with this so much.

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can_a_...n_bomb#slide=1

[Rising Dragon]

Really? Using just a link as a retort, and one from WikiAnswers at that?