AnimeSuki Forums

4Tran · 2006-11-30, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Flores

Alliance Vs ZAFT

This isn't exactly a mobile suit versus comparison, but the answer is going to depend on the timing of the war. In Cosmic Era 73, PLANT quite obviously defeated the EA's forces; thereby greatly reducing its power. In the Cosmic Era 71 war, the EA managed to force PLANT's troops into a defensive posture, and would have likely won the final battle without outside intervention. The latter would have been a pyrrhic victory, but a victory nonetheless.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-01, 00:15

I'd say, in the first war, it probably would've ended up a very, very dreadful tie (if the Three Ships Alliance weren't there).

It would mostly depend on who fires off their big weapons first.

If the nukes are fired first, PLANT would end up defeated mostly (no godly pilots to intercept them), but if PLANT managed to fire off GENESIS 1-2 times (once at the fleet, then at Earth probably) and, if by miraculous luck, 3 times (at the moon base and then Earth after that), it would end up winning.

And since the Three Ships Alliance wouldn't be there, that would also leave Rau La Creuset there with the Providence as well, which would give the MS forces a bit of an advantage while the EA would have the Biological CPUs.

Though, given the timing, PLANT would still have a bigger advantage with the Providence because it has the N-Jammer Canceller installed while most, if not all, of the EA's MS just have batteries, so running out of power would be the downside for them (and, in turn, the Biological CPUs going all mentally unstable and insane).

Only problem there being Rau La Creuset himself XD (since he wants everyone destroyed, so he'd probably only make it so they blow eachother away at the same time or something)

4Tran · 2006-12-01, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

I'd say, in the first war, it probably would've ended up a very, very dreadful tie (if the Three Ships Alliance weren't there).

It would mostly depend on who fires off their big weapons first.

I'd agree here, but in the anime, the EA did manage to launch their nukes first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Though, given the timing, PLANT would still have a bigger advantage with the Providence because it has the N-Jammer Canceller installed while most, if not all, of the EA's MS just have batteries, so running out of power would be the downside for them (and, in turn, the Biological CPUs going all mentally unstable and insane).

A single mobile suit doesn't count for much given the vast numbers involved in the final battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

If the nukes are fired first, PLANT would end up defeated mostly (no godly pilots to intercept them), but if PLANT managed to fire off GENESIS 1-2 times (once at the fleet, then at Earth probably) and, if by miraculous luck, 3 times (at the moon base and then Earth after that), it would end up winning.

GENESIS has a slow enough rate of fire that the EA fleet has enough time to attack in between shots. A single nuclear strike would be sufficient to destroy GENESIS. There was no way for PLANT to win that battle; the only thing they would be able to do is to destroy the EA fleet and hurt earth, but they would also lose their entire population in doing so.

The most important point is that by this time PLANT was completely on the defensive: most of their bases on earth had been overrun, and even in space, they were reduced to just protecting PLANT. I'm not sure if anyone can attach solid numbers to it, but it seems as if the OMNI fleet vastly outnumbered the ZAFT defenders as well.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-05, 15:44

F91 Gundam F91 vs. RXF-91A Silhouette Gundam Kai

Skyfall · 2006-12-06, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

A single mobile suit doesn't count for much given the vast numbers involved in the final battle.

Too bad Kira and Athrun were not here to read this before the final battle of Destiny

And Providence certainly is not far behind Freedom in terms of spam-power.

Quote:

I'd say, in the first war, it probably would've ended up a very, very dreadful tie (if the Three Ships Alliance weren't there).

It would mostly depend on who fires off their big weapons first

Just like 4Tran said - EA did launch their nukes... and if not for Justice + Freedom +Meteor spampack the PLANTs would have been obliterated.

4Tran · 2006-12-06, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Too bad Kira and Athrun were not here to read this before the final battle of Destiny And Providence certainly is not far behind Freedom in terms of spam-power.

To be fair, the numbers fielded by ZAFT at the end of Destiny is much smaller than the massive forces assembled at the end of Seed. In the latter, ZAFT pretty much committed its entire order of battle and OMNI likely sent in the vast majority of its fleet (they stil had enough reserves to use as reinforcements). In Destiny, the majority of ZAFT's forces were probably either still on earth or protecting PLANT and other assets. Mwu even suggested that they were facing mostly inexperienced troops. The allies were also greatly helped by the fact that the ZAFT defensive strategy was rather poor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Just like 4Tran said - EA did launch their nukes... and if not for Justice + Freedom +Meteor spampack the PLANTs would have been obliterated.

And even after GENESIS fired its first shot, the EA was still able to launch a second volley.

M_Flores · 2006-12-08, 05:37

BTW, what's so special about the Jet Stream Attack? What is the big fuss about it? Is it just some sort of nostalgic cliche thing from an old UC series adopted into GSD, coz I don't see why this can't just be laughed at by one direct hit of a TBR shot from Wing Zero or something?

4Tran · 2006-12-08, 09:42

I don't think that the original Jet Stream attack is all that special as there's nothing to keep someone from just picking the lead Dom off. The DOM Trooper version seems to be a little better since they've got an energy field as protection. The idea is simply to confuse the defender and to have the Doms attack him from multiple angles.

There doesn't seem to be any Twin Buster Rifle-like weapon in the Cosmic Era, and the attack is generally pulled off quickly enough that it doesn't seem as if there would be time to fire one at full power.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-08, 13:52

Well, the original Jet Stream Attack was a bit effective...at least with the Doms because they had their scattering beam gun to blind enemy pilots, making it harder for them to hit them and much easier for the Trinery to kill them while they're off-balance.

It was just "upgraded" in GSD since the DOM Troopers version of the scattering beam gun is more like beam particles, which is why some things shot them were deflected.

4Tran · 2006-12-08, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Well, the original Jet Stream Attack was a bit effective...at least with the Doms because they had their scattering beam gun to blind enemy pilots, making it harder for them to hit them and much easier for the Trinery to kill them while they're off-balance.

I admit that I forgot about the scattering beam gun. However, it's still a horrible weapon since it requires that its enemy lacks light filters - a technology which even modern vehicles have used for decades.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-09, 16:14

It seemed to work out ok the first time it was seen...but then again, the Trinary were also known for their own speed of their attacks, so I guess it's just in that one moment (usually at the last moment), when they use it, they immediately attack before the enemy can react (since it'd be a distraction at the least).

4Tran · 2006-12-09, 17:17

The RX-78 was a prototype test platform to begin with, so it's not altogether surprising that it would be replete with flaws and bugs. The fact that it was vulnerable to the scattering laser is indicative of one of these flaws, but it's not a good idea to build a weapon that relies on your enemy fielding flawed equipment. If the RX-78 had light filters (or if Amuro had worn shades!), the Black Tri-Stars probably wouldn't have survived their first meeting with him.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-09, 23:29

Amuro wearing shades...I cannot see that at all except for that one time in Zeta, lol.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2006-12-16, 16:57

Been thinking about this one for a while...

MS-09F/Gb Dom Gross Beil vs. YMS-15 Gyan

...don't know much about the Gross Beil, but with both units being Gelgoog competitors and melee-oriented MS, I figured it'd be an interesting match.

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2007-01-07, 15:30

MSK-008 Dijeh vs. RMS-108 Marasai

4Tran · 2007-01-07, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

MSK-008 Dijeh vs. RMS-108 Marasai

These two mobile suits have fairly similar specifications, and the only point that stands out are their respective accelerations. The Dijeh is about 16% faster, so it should win out in most encounters.

M_Flores · 2007-01-08, 06:06

Kira vs Athrun in a gun fight.

megakim · 2007-01-08, 09:35

That's kinda unfair, kira is notorious for his aim

Skyfall · 2007-01-08, 09:37

Along with his (in)ability to use a gun, mind you

Nightengale · 2007-01-08, 09:47

Hey! Kira did learn to be less dependant on Athrun (( afraid Athrun's gonna steal back Lacus? )) and improved his lame engineering skills of the past to a point where apparently fixing/servicing Haros isn't too much of a trouble for him. Hell, he'd probably had to, since he won't get his peace and quiet by the beach with Haros disturbing him... Shit...I've just noticed that Lacus's Pink-chan doesn't exactly babble so much in GSD compared to SEED? Kira's handiwork? :P

At least Kira learned to take off the safety. Though he'd probably be better off playing Sherudo than trying to be Richard Miller. :3

2006-12-01, 00:15	Link #1102
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply I'd say, in the first war, it probably would've ended up a very, very dreadful tie (if the Three Ships Alliance weren't there). It would mostly depend on who fires off their big weapons first. If the nukes are fired first, PLANT would end up defeated mostly (no godly pilots to intercept them), but if PLANT managed to fire off GENESIS 1-2 times (once at the fleet, then at Earth probably) and, if by miraculous luck, 3 times (at the moon base and then Earth after that), it would end up winning. And since the Three Ships Alliance wouldn't be there, that would also leave Rau La Creuset there with the Providence as well, which would give the MS forces a bit of an advantage while the EA would have the Biological CPUs. Though, given the timing, PLANT would still have a bigger advantage with the Providence because it has the N-Jammer Canceller installed while most, if not all, of the EA's MS just have batteries, so running out of power would be the downside for them (and, in turn, the Biological CPUs going all mentally unstable and insane). Only problem there being Rau La Creuset himself XD (since he wants everyone destroyed, so he'd probably only make it so they blow eachother away at the same time or something) __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2006-12-05, 15:44	Link #1104
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply F91 Gundam F91 vs. RXF-91A Silhouette Gundam Kai __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2006-12-08, 09:42	Link #1108
4Tran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I don't think that the original Jet Stream attack is all that special as there's nothing to keep someone from just picking the lead Dom off. The DOM Trooper version seems to be a little better since they've got an energy field as protection. The idea is simply to confuse the defender and to have the Doms attack him from multiple angles. There doesn't seem to be any Twin Buster Rifle-like weapon in the Cosmic Era, and the attack is generally pulled off quickly enough that it doesn't seem as if there would be time to fire one at full power. __________________ The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

2006-12-08, 13:52	Link #1109
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Well, the original Jet Stream Attack was a bit effective...at least with the Doms because they had their scattering beam gun to blind enemy pilots, making it harder for them to hit them and much easier for the Trinery to kill them while they're off-balance. It was just "upgraded" in GSD since the DOM Troopers version of the scattering beam gun is more like beam particles, which is why some things shot them were deflected. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2006-12-09, 16:14	Link #1111
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply It seemed to work out ok the first time it was seen...but then again, the Trinary were also known for their own speed of their attacks, so I guess it's just in that one moment (usually at the last moment), when they use it, they immediately attack before the enemy can react (since it'd be a distraction at the least). __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2006-12-08, 05:37	Link #1107
M_Flores Count of Monte Dorifto Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto	BTW, what's so special about the Jet Stream Attack? What is the big fuss about it? Is it just some sort of nostalgic cliche thing from an old UC series adopted into GSD, coz I don't see why this can't just be laughed at by one direct hit of a TBR shot from Wing Zero or something?

2006-12-09, 17:17	Link #1112
4Tran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	The RX-78 was a prototype test platform to begin with, so it's not altogether surprising that it would be replete with flaws and bugs. The fact that it was vulnerable to the scattering laser is indicative of one of these flaws, but it's not a good idea to build a weapon that relies on your enemy fielding flawed equipment. If the RX-78 had light filters (or if Amuro had worn shades!), the Black Tri-Stars probably wouldn't have survived their first meeting with him. __________________ The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

2006-12-09, 23:29	Link #1113
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Amuro wearing shades...I cannot see that at all except for that one time in Zeta, lol. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2006-12-16, 16:57	Link #1114
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Been thinking about this one for a while... MS-09F/Gb Dom Gross Beil vs. YMS-15 Gyan ...don't know much about the Gross Beil, but with both units being Gelgoog competitors and melee-oriented MS, I figured it'd be an interesting match. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2007-01-07, 15:30	Link #1115
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply MSK-008 Dijeh vs. RMS-108 Marasai __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2007-01-08, 06:06	Link #1117
M_Flores Count of Monte Dorifto Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Isla De Monte Dorifto	Kira vs Athrun in a gun fight.

2007-01-08, 09:35	Link #1118
megakim For a blue and pure world Join Date: Dec 2004	That's kinda unfair, kira is notorious for his aim

2007-01-08, 09:37	Link #1119
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	Along with his (in)ability to use a gun, mind you __________________

2007-01-08, 09:47	Link #1120
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Hey! Kira did learn to be less dependant on Athrun (( afraid Athrun's gonna steal back Lacus? )) and improved his lame engineering skills of the past to a point where apparently fixing/servicing Haros isn't too much of a trouble for him. Hell, he'd probably had to, since he won't get his peace and quiet by the beach with Haros disturbing him... Shit...I've just noticed that Lacus's Pink-chan doesn't exactly babble so much in GSD compared to SEED? Kira's handiwork? :P At least Kira learned to take off the safety. Though he'd probably be better off playing Sherudo than trying to be Richard Miller. :3 __________________ *Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.* The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.