Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[shadowarc]

I might have missed something reading the discussion but could it be that the truth of Tigre's mother wasn't revealed at all?

[Ramero]

Since Eugene is dead, is most likely Badouin will be the only mentor for Tigre's child include adopted ones to teach them. I wonder if Mashas also want to become a mentor as well since he is Tigre's mentor from child.

Eugene become Vanadis mentor and even a new Vanadis (Except for Lourie's house) are assigned to Eugene to receive teachings about governing.

[Chingaruna517]

Originally Posted by shadowarc

I might have missed something reading the discussion but could it be that the truth of Tigre's mother wasn't revealed at all?

The truth about Tigre's mother is already revealed at Volume 15 where Tigre and Titta are visited by one of Saint-Groel's priest, who somehow know Tigre's mother's past.

[Marx-93]

Kingship can be through marriage, but doesn't change the succession laws. A king can be consort (and not, this doesn't depend on nobility rank; the king of one country can be the king-consort in another) or rule by his own right through jure uxoris, but the succession itself remains tied to the dynasty.

Even if he was only consort (which he likely isn't) Tigre would still be called the king of Brune, both by the fact he has right to the title (even if only through marriage) and because due to middle ages stance against woman rulers it would always be Regin's husband that would be considered Brune's king.

And again, a completely unified kingdom is something that you don't pull off in a week. It requires to fundamentally change the structure of both nations and were always fuel to rebellions, which is not something either Brune or Zhcted need. Unions are more common, more useful in those times and can be completely unified down the line when the people and nobles are used to it.

[AndySimpson96]

Coronation of King Tigre takes place on the next year's Sun Festival

If that takes place roughly a year later, has Elen already given birth at this point.

The truth about Tigre's mother is already revealed at Volume 15 where Tigre and Titta are visited by one of Saint-Groel's priest, who somehow know Tigre's mother's past.

Where can I find what was said?

[DragonOsman]

I also want to know.

@Marx-93: If Tigre's already the king of both Brune and Zhcted, why does that not mean that the countries are one? After all, he really doesn't sound like the King Consort of either country.

[KnightShade]

A unified kingdom doesnt happen over night, but given the epilogue is set 3 years after the final battle and 2 years after his coronation, that should enough time stabalize the new regime. Brune and Zhcted are one country now, as it originally was foreshadowed to be.

Besides, unions tend to suck, just look at the ussr or current day european union.

@thread Lim finally got to ride the El Tigre

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, she probably did (the @thread thing). [Unless it was confirmed and I missed it?]

And yeah, I guess you're right that Brune and Zhcted must've become one country in the 2 years since Tigre became King before the time of Epilogue. If they're really one country now which they probably are.

And in that case, hopefully after some more time passes. Tigre will be able to marry Elen, Lim, Sofy, Olga, Liza, Mila and Titta as well. And I also hope Lim becomes a Vanadis soon.

[Ramero]

New Kingdom means new territory to manage. If Tigre want to centralize the governing and since the center of the Kingdom can be benefited due to widespread territory, i believe Alsace is a fitting place for it. Judging by the epilogue itself, i also expect that both Tigre, Elen and their child are also could be at Alsace.

I believe that Tigre have to manage a new territory from now on even include how he was able to split territory for the Vanadises unless they want to keep the territory as it was before unification.

[DragonOsman]

If the Vanadis's territories change even a bit, like if they get new ones or expand their existing ones, then I think Lim should be given a territory closer to where Tigre is so that she doesn't have to worry about not being able watch over him as Vanadis. Since it seemed to be in the Epilogue or the artbook that it mentioned that she set that condition for Bargren, though, it might be that her territory will still be Legnica even 2 years after Tigre became King, which is bad for her becoming Vanadis soon. But I still hope she'll become Vanadis officially sometime soon.

And I also want to know the new Esendeis Vanadis's name if it was already mentioned.

[dragon213]

was Lim the only one who Tigre crossed the line with in this final volume? That we know about I mean. If all of the current vanadises is his lovers, all of them without doubt have done it, just wondering if Lim is the only one that has been mention to have done it.

[DragonOsman]

The new Vanadis of Esendeis was just introduced in the Epilogue or the artbook and she isn't in the harem. It's just the other 6 who love him. And Lim isn't officially a Vanadis either. She told Bargren to wait because doesn't want to leave Tigre's side and go to Legnica yet, and she also said that if it finds someone better than her, it can go to her. So basically she's a Vanadis candidate right now. But I think that knowing Bargren and given the time with Sasha, as far as Bargren is concerned, Lim is Vanadis.

[Marx-93]

A union is a union of crowns under the same king/queen, but in which each maintain the structure from independent days (so the the handling of the territory is similar). It starts with a personal union, in which the countries just share the same king, but it commonly evolves to real unions in which there are some structures common to each country and some rules to make the union more solid.

Examples of Unions were Spain (unified into a single country in 1716), the Hapsburg and German empires and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Modern unions work a bit differently as confederations/federations, but they include the United States, the United Arab Emirates and Switzerland.

Transforming 2 countries into a single unified state commonly means destroying the previous structure of the 2 kingdoms to a completely new one suited to a new unified country. As expected, it's common cause of rebellions, and in fact it has only happened a few times, all in modern times. Succession and dynastic ties are very important, so changing succession within Brune would more or less require rewriting entire bunches of its laws, and usually kings are forbidden from doing so (Tigre could avoid it by basically destroying Brune's law and making the rules of his new country as he pleases, but as I said it's simply not worth it)

Frankly, there's little question that the country Tigre rules is a union; we're not even given a name of this new 'nation', rather Tigre always says he is both Brune and Zhcted's king. That's basically a union.

[fullillegal]

Who is Valery's mother? Tina?

[DragonOsman]

^I doubt it. But maybe it is? Who knows. Depends on Valery's age, among some other things.

@Marx-93: Two have already passed since Tigre's coronation in the Epilogue, right? So if Brune and Zhcted still haven't merged into one by then, they'll probably do so soon. Might take a few more years, though.

I wonder if Tigre will be able to marry the Vanadis who are in his harem once enough time has passed and the two countries have truly become one rather than just being a union. I really hope he can.

[Ramero]

@Marx-93: I'm aware of that but the major flaw on that is the King have to move to one place and another to maintain it's government which a central place to government must be established immediately.

If there are no objections from Tigre's allies at the ministers and government, the process should be relatively quick but the major problem is that i mentioned above. Bringing them into union is very difficult but if the core government has least opposition then it's a good thing as well. Imagine like United Kingdom that has no central government back then and choose London as it's capital, the reason it's because it's the central of the union of all Kingdom on UK back then. If we notice it, every capital is always at the center of the country and in this story itself, Alsace will be the center of government of union between Brune and Zhcted.

[KnightShade]

The thing is there is already a restructured centralized heirarchy as badoin is made tigres prime minister, not just brunes. The vanadis roles have been unchanged according to what was said about lim, but from what we know there isnt that much to restructure given the following points.
A both countries have the same religious body
B they have the same currency
C they’re both monarchy's with the same system of dukes and nobles
D they have a history of trade amongst each other
E are chief exports in the same goods due to point d
F were originally one country

The reason why real world examples of unions dont work here is that most of the countries unified dont share these points. Of course unifying irl will be harder when countries lack common ground on certain points but brune and zhcted largely doesnt have that problem. Are they at a union stage now, sure. But it wont take long for that to change. Especially when tigre inevitably makes alsace the capital for the reasons ramero pointed out

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Chingaruna517

The truth about Tigre's mother is already revealed at Volume 15 where Tigre and Titta are visited by one of Saint-Groel's priest, who somehow know Tigre's mother's past.

I also want to know as well, I think I miss it when the vol came out. Can someone please be so kind and give us some tidbits?

[DragonOsman]

I don't think anyone's given a single spoiler on that or on anything regarding Tigre's lineage yet, actually. So no, you didn't miss anything.

@kidstandout: I mostly agree with you, but I have to say that your point F hasn't been confirmed within the series yet as far as I know. IIRC, it may actually have been debunked already. Though I'd want to believe that it's true.

[KnightShade]

Fair point on F but it hasnt debunked, if anything it seems like a given with points a-e