Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

"Real life politics are ruinning my Nanoha T-T"

Ok, it's an exaggerated statement but it's more or less true -_-

I would not blame Tsuzuki trying to blend in some politics. I would blame his apparent inability to conciliate "real robots" (tho this phrase always makes me laugh, unless we talk about Patlabor), "super robots", "magical girls", "action shounen" and "ship teasing pandering" together and in a coherent and acceptable manner. Also, the more it develop, the more he narrow down the possible scenarios or "settings" for those who wants to write fanfictions. If you are a mecha fan, it's awesome, but if you wanted more down-to-earth stories and drama (like a serial killer hunting, scenarios like The Departed, or even a Die Hard-like). The development in favor of a certain flavor in the Nanoverse is now a big NO F*CK YOU to anyone not yuri, mahou shoujo or mecha fans.

[Lord Pertinax]

Still no vivid?

[Bananoha]

Originally Posted by Lord Pertinax

Still no vivid?

Yup, I see no scans for Vivid at all.

*whistles*

Actually, who is doing Vivid now? Someone mentioned Winterbraid got someone else to do it, but I don't remember seeing them mentioning what exactly was going on beyond "I'm dropping it".

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I would not blame Tsuzuki trying to blend in some politics. I would blame his apparent inability to conciliate "real robots" (tho this phrase always makes me laugh, unless we talk about Patlabor), "super robots", "magical girls", "action shounen" and "ship teasing pandering" together and in a coherent and acceptable manner. Also, the more it develop, the more he narrow down the possible scenarios or "settings" for those who wants to write fanfictions. If you are a mecha fan, it's awesome, but if you wanted more down-to-earth stories and drama (like a serial killer hunting, scenarios like The Departed, or even a Die Hard-like). The development in favor of a certain flavor in the Nanoverse is now a big NO F*CK YOU to anyone not yuri, mahou shoujo or mecha fans.

I'm stoped writing fanfiction long time ago but i take your point, his problems blending elements to the franchise are more evident as the story progresses, admitedly, i'm not like how S1 has started, i find it bland and(don't slaughter me please) a little bit boring, until Fate and the TSAB kicks in, apparently i will always regard "A's" as the climax point in the series with every following stand of the franchise go downhill from there(i think i'm a little paradigmatic here but i can't do anything abot that, i LOVE the Wolkenritter and their backstory xD), still StrikerS have some good points and interesting Characters(Subaru, besides the yuri, is great xD), i like how well Tsuzuki blends M;agical Girls with Action Mecha(believe it or not, i'm not here for the yuri, i don't have anything special against it, it's just not my kind of thing) but i found FORCE alienating(ok, ok, i know about the "drop the magical girl title" and stuff but still it was managed way too drastically) and ViVid a little too sugar overflavored. The franchise was great because it's a surprise how well they can blend those two elements and give a sense of balance in story, but now they take said balance away and give us two oversaturated works(one with more blood and political warfare and other with flowers, spice and everything nice ....and a very little, almost non-existent, doze of Chemical X xDU).

Like i say before i'm start to look this as an experiment, maybe the two elements are going to blend togheter again in the future(When the next generation finally can take into action) and we can see again hard-boiled magical battles surrounded by both: bloody badassery and heartful courage and hope.

[Nanya01]

To be honest, (and I will be hated here) while A's was pretty good... Really good...

I wanted to kill EVERY antagonist in A's. Wolkenritter, the twins and Graham.

I did.

It's why I don't write fanfiction for that time frame.

I do, however, like most of the antagonists in StrikerS. (except Quattro)

Edit: Okay, having thought it over, lemme rephrase it a bit...

I wanted to kill the Lieze Twins, the Wolkenritter?

*Whaps them with paper fans until they're out cold.*

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The development in favor of a certain flavor in the Nanoverse is now a big NO F*CK YOU to anyone not yuri, mahou shoujo or mecha fans.

Honestly, isn't this getting a bit out of hand? It's *HIS* story and he can write it anyway he wants to. Just like Stephanie Meyer can write her Twilight series anyway she wants to. Read it or not, feel free to offer criticisms, but when you ascend to the level of Ruined Forever that it becomes hard to take you seriously.

You still have fanfiction, and you can still write a number of AU's. Last I heard, none of the owners/creators were forbidding specific types of fanfiction. Hell, I don't care much for yuri, and I hate the fanservice in Vivid, but I can recognize that everyone can write and enjoy what they wish; both Tsuzuki and fanfic authors.

[Sheba]

Ruined? More like not enjoyable anymore for some of those who were not fans of the mentioned elements. I know people who have come to not care anymore about the franchise, where their liking of the characters and universe have shifted to mere indifference. And I am close to come there.

And let's be honest here, the shout-outs are pulled with the subtlety Haruhi references in Lucky Star, to the eye-rolling point. I wish it was done a little subtly, something like in Full Metal Panic Fumoffu where references (Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket) are not recognized unless you are knee-deep into pop culture.

[itanshi1]

So we are either family guy or woody allen, eh?

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Ruined? More like not enjoyable anymore for some of those who were not fans of the mentioned elements.

This only works for me, so I'm only putting it out there as an idea so that other people can judge it's right for them, but...

I don't particularly care for soap operas, teen romances, and vampires. I know if I do watch them, I'll complain about those elements. So I found this nice trick where I don't watch them. Works out great for everyone involved, as people who do like them can watch without me btiching, and I can fill my time watching stuff I do like!

Radical stuff here, and it may not work for everyone, though.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

This only works for me, so I'm only putting it out there as an idea so that other people can judge it's right for them, but...

I don't particularly care for soap operas, teen romances, and vampires. I know if I do watch them, I'll complain about those elements. So I found this nice trick where I don't watch them. Works out great for everyone involved, as people who do like them can watch without me btiching, and I can fill my time watching stuff I do like!

Radical stuff here, and it may not work for everyone, though.

... I'd rep you for this post if I could. I thought I was the only one who knew of that trick!

[itanshi1]

I don't agree with that trick ^^ I like series for their flaws, but I'm also not about to subject myself to a wank series like that when I grew up on it's betters.

[LoweGear]

Don't forget the people on the other side of the fence who actually enjoy said elements, or can enjoy the series despite said elements, which is the reason we on this side keep following. Not everyone has the opinion that the addition of politics, mecha and the aforementioned ruins it; personally, I enjoy the addition since it shows that there's more to Nanoha than just your normal magical girl fare and isn't afraid to tread into elements that few others in its genre would even think of covering.

[itanshi1]

Yeah, I also find the additions not more narrow for my writing, but more expansive

[Akiyoshi]

I'm wondering if this is probably the first step into a full fleshed Gundam-esque franchise xD. Maybe we finally get to see, sooner or later, the first instalment of the series to have the name "Nanoha" in it and don't show Nanoha herself in the plot xD, also Alternate Universes and the like(Nanoha WING, Nanoha SEED, G Nanoha, Turn-A-Nanoha and the like xD).

P.D.- If Erio ends up facing Cypha he will beat her by RIPPING OFF HER CLOTHES!(hey, it worked on Fate xD).

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Moczo

Perhaps. It's possible that she's asleep (maybe from advanced Eclipse infection? If she's supposed to be their leader, it stands to reason that her infection would be older than everyone else's) and using Stella as her go-between. Or maybe she doesn't need to be nearby... Lily is broken, after all; we don't know what a fully-functioning Strosek can do.

Well, maybe. Though the Hucks don't seem particularly concerned about their catatonic leader in the face of an incoming TSAB attack. I still get the gut feeling that Karen is not on the ship, and that Stella is a full-on EC Driver.

Well, it's just my own personal fun theory. In my world, the Tome of the Silver Cross is a partially-insane independent AI that acts as a sort of part-time adviser to the Huckebeins, infecting them with Eclipse and leading them to EC weapons as part of its mad efforts to re-ignite the Belkan war era because it can't comprehend anything but war and bloodshed.

Yes, I had the approximately the same theory after the first two chapters: the Silver Cross is a giant extradimensional hivemind that ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL over the EC infected individuals and makes them kill things. Back then, it explained the synchronicity of Thoma's trashing of the Lily Torture Facility and the attack on the Easter village that Teana is investigating. However, now that we are introduced to the Hucks, I am more inclined to think that the Silver Cross is just a system for turning people into living bombs to be dropped onto hostile planets as a more cost-efficient Exterminatus method. ^^ That is also what might be meant by "poison to kill the world"...

Btw, what if the Silver Cross is actually a Reaper and the EC, some form of indoctrination?

Suuuuuuuuure.

Why is it that everyone is so hell-bent on setting me up on the receiving end of Nanoha's Pink Beam of Death? *runs*

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Has it been confirmed that the Huckebein leader has a Strosek?

Not that I knew about.

Originally Posted by dahak

According to Isis, Lily doesn't use telepathy but something more similar to telekinesis to speak [Thus Steed can't hear her]. Thus Stella could be using telepathy but it doesn't help the arguement she's a Stroseik.

Hmm. If she is using telekinesis to speak, Steed must be able to hear her just as well as he hears Isis. It's less physical ways of communications that he may not be able to perceive...

P.D.- I hope Cypha wins or escape ....by cheating xD!(as i said before if she get's defeat by someone else, Signum's rematch with her would be pointless).

Well, Fate could smack her down and let her escape, so Signum gets a shot at her, too. :3 Two pwnages for the price of one! ^^

Originally Posted by Sheba

I would not blame Tsuzuki trying to blend in some politics. I would blame his apparent inability to conciliate "real robots" (tho this phrase always makes me laugh, unless we talk about Patlabor), "super robots", "magical girls", "action shounen" and "ship teasing pandering" together and in a coherent and acceptable manner. Also, the more it develop, the more he narrow down the possible scenarios or "settings" for those who wants to write fanfictions. If you are a mecha fan, it's awesome, but if you wanted more down-to-earth stories and drama (like a serial killer hunting, scenarios like The Departed, or even a Die Hard-like). The development in favor of a certain flavor in the Nanoverse is now a big NO F*CK YOU to anyone not yuri, mahou shoujo or mecha fans.

Personally, I think if there's anyone to blend those genres, then Tsuzuki came closest to it thus far. I do agree, however, that he has some room for improvement in attention to detail and systemic thinking. I have the feeling that he picked his favorite parts from the genres above and mixed them together without giving much thought about coherence. For three seasons, the mixture held together on the Rule of Cool (as any ninja pirate zombie robot construct does), but after a while, it started falling apart because of its eclectic nature. Genres exist for a reason: they unite tropes that simply work together. If you blend them, you either have to know when to wrap up and quit, or give a lot of thought about explaining and justifying the mixture. Tsuzuki cannot do either by now, so all that is left is to try to reconcile the collapsing concept parts retroactively. That's where he is having problems right now, not to mention all the fans screaming how Nanoha has been ruined forever. Oh, and by that, I don't mean anyone in particular on this forum. ^^;

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I wanted to kill EVERY antagonist in A's. Wolkenritter, the twins and Graham.

I wanted to kill the Lieze Twins, the Wolkenritter?

*Whaps them with paper fans until they're out cold.*

What's wrong with the Wolkies and the Wonder Twins? O__o' I did want to kill them myself after certain events, but I've since grown to adore all of them. ^^;

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I'm wondering if this is probably the first step into a full fleshed Gundam-esque franchise xD. Maybe we finally get to see, sooner or later, the first instalment of the series to have the name "Nanoha" in it and don't show Nanoha herself in the plot xD, also Alternate Universes and the like(Nanoha WING, Nanoha SEED, G Nanoha, Turn-A-Nanoha and the like xD).

And "Nanoha" will be retroactively revealed to be a mecha model designation made out of Nanobtainium alloy.

P.D.- If Erio ends up facing Cypha he will beat her by RIPPING OFF HER CLOTHES!(hey, it worked on Fate xD).

Unless he ends up accidentally ripping off Fate's clothes again. *ruuunz*

[Keroko]

Speaking of the 'using telekinesis to speak' thing, are we sure that's not just a mistranslation, and should be telepathy?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Well, Fate could smack her down and let her escape, so Signum gets a shot at her, too. :3 Two pwnages for the price of one! ^^

Well, Fate's victory or at least well done hit will work if she at least shows some signs of revenge like sayin somthing like "it hurts? Signum was able to couter this attack several times" and giving her a cold stare like one of those Fate don't use frequently xD.

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

What's wrong with the Wolkies and the Wonder Twins? O__o' I did want to kill them myself after certain events, but I've since grown to adore all of them. ^^;

I'm wondering the same, i mean the Wolkies are all hugable and cool characters, while the Twins are interesting villains(i mean, they best the entire Wolkenritter over a decade before the Huckebein even appear, and they made it based on PURE SKILL, no cheats, no insane broken powers, they just bind them and kill them in an instant, well, except for poor Vita ;_; ).

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Personally, I think if there's anyone to blend those genres, then Tsuzuki came closest to it thus far. I do agree, however, that he has some room for improvement in attention to detail and systemic thinking. I have the feeling that he picked his favorite parts from the genres above and mixed them together without giving much thought about coherence. For three seasons, the mixture held together on the Rule of Cool (as any ninja pirate zombie robot construct does), but after a while, it started falling apart because of its eclectic nature. Genres exist for a reason: they unite tropes that simply work together. If you blend them, you either have to know when to wrap up and quit, or give a lot of thought about explaining and justifying the mixture. Tsuzuki cannot do either by now, so all that is left is to try to reconcile the collapsing concept parts retroactively. That's where he is having problems right now, not to mention all the fans screaming how Nanoha has been ruined forever. Oh, and by that, I don't mean anyone in particular on this forum. ^^;

Oh phew, here someone trying to understand what I am getting at and got it for most of parts!

[PhoenixFlare]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I'm wondering if this is probably the first step into a full fleshed Gundam-esque franchise xD. Maybe we finally get to see, sooner or later, the first instalment of the series to have the name "Nanoha" in it and don't show Nanoha herself in the plot xD, also Alternate Universes and the like(Nanoha WING, Nanoha SEED, G Nanoha, Turn-A-Nanoha and the like xD).

P.D.- If Erio ends up facing Cypha he will beat her by RIPPING OFF HER CLOTHES!(hey, it worked on Fate xD).

*has a scary image of a Cyphia turning dominatrix on Erio*

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I'm wondering the same, i mean the Wolkies are all hugable and cool characters, while the Twins are interesting villains(i mean, they best the entire Wolkenritter over a decade before the Huckebein even appear, and they made it based on PURE SKILL, no cheats, no insane broken powers, they just bind them and kill them in an instant, well, except for poor Vita ;_; ).

I don't think "huggable" would be an adjective appropriately used for the Wolkenritter. Not for Vita, and especially not for Signum.

[prescience]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Personally, I think if there's anyone to blend those genres, then Tsuzuki came closest to it thus far. I do agree, however, that he has some room for improvement in attention to detail and systemic thinking. I have the feeling that he picked his favorite parts from the genres above and mixed them together without giving much thought about coherence. For three seasons, the mixture held together on the Rule of Cool (as any ninja pirate zombie robot construct does), but after a while, it started falling apart because of its eclectic nature. Genres exist for a reason: they unite tropes that simply work together. If you blend them, you either have to know when to wrap up and quit, or give a lot of thought about explaining and justifying the mixture. Tsuzuki cannot do either by now, so all that is left is to try to reconcile the collapsing concept parts retroactively. That's where he is having problems right now, not to mention all the fans screaming how Nanoha has been ruined forever. Oh, and by that, I don't mean anyone in particular on this forum. ^^;

For this reason, I find the Gundam-alike multiple continuity idea attractive. A completely new story would allow Tsuzuki to avoid at least some of the inconsistencies that have arisen from the story developing in ways that he didn't expect, or just from not thinking things out properly. Hindsight is 20/20, so why not make use of it?

Of course, I have no expectation that he would actually do this; it would presumably mean shelving the entire existing cast in favor of a new one (with perhaps a few cameos for the old chars). By all accounts, the Nanoha franchise's characters are it's big moneyspinners in the Japanese market, whereas the Gundam franchise makes most of its cash on mecha model kits. I'm guessing that mecha fans aren't quite as attached to individual mechs as bishoujo fans tend to be about their favourite characters.

Still hoping that, somewhere down the line, we'll see Rebuild of Nanoha.... *shot*