[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 8 Twilight of the golden witch

[Renall]

All I can tell you is that I would call the bluff myself unless you personally led me to an underground chamber filled with thousands of sticks of TNT all rigged up.

And then I'd probably try to kick your ass on the spot and pull all the fuses.

EDIT: Basically I'm saying anyone who would believe you have enough explosives under a civilian house on a remote island to cause a 1km crater is an idiot, even if you actually do have that.

[Jan-Poo]

I regretfully need to admit that I wouldn't put it past Ryuukishi.
He already presented us a situation where one of the person involved blindly followed the culprit's commands even after he started killing people at random in EP5, despite the absolute lack of guarantee that he wouldn't finish the job anyway.
From that kind of stupidity to the stupidity of blindly accepting the existence of a megaton bomb in the basement...

In addition I have the feeling that he didn't notice the inherent absurdity of Kyrie blindly believing anything that Beatrice told her in the EP7 tea party.

[ErenselTheJester]

Heh, I think I'm one of the few people who are satisfied with EP8, not because of the plot, but because it does answer some questions (at least for me). To see what I can get with my new understanding, I went all the way back to EP1 and I noticed that the rules changed when EP2 came up, and I assume that Ikuko wrote her stories based off of EP2 rather than EP1. Furthermore, because of the differences between the two stories, I assume they were written by seperate people (though, this has a lower chance of being correct than them being written by a single author). The reason why is because of the framework of the stories, EP1 was a mystery novel, while EP2 became an anti- fantasy. When I tried re- tackling the two stories (both without red, instead using Knox/Dine) I found myself breezing through EP1 but having a little trouble with EP2 because of the magical scenes. All in all, I figured out that you don't need Red to reach a solid conclusion. So I'm happy about the whole "truth is subjective" thing EP8 was going for becuase I understand (now) that I can do all this by myself.

[rogerpepitone]

Originally Posted by Renall

All I can tell you is that I would call the bluff myself unless you personally led me to an underground chamber filled with thousands of sticks of TNT all rigged up.

And then I'd probably try to kick your ass on the spot and pull all the fuses.

EDIT: Basically I'm saying anyone who would believe you have enough explosives under a civilian house on a remote island to cause a 1km crater is an idiot, even if you actually do have that.

Even if they did believe Yasu, I think the exchange would go something like:

"Hello, my name is Ushiromiya Yasu. Unless you do exactly what I say, I will set off explosives to destroy this island. First, you will all ---"

Yasu wakes up some time later, tied to a chair. Genji is out cold, also tied to a chair. Krauss's face is bloodied, but he's awake. Rudolf's clothes are a bit dissheveled. Eva is also standing nearby. As she notices that Yasu is awake, she picks up a five dollar wrench and asks

"Do you know how long I've wanted to do this? Now, where's the bomb?"
...

[Renall]

Well, yeah. I mean unless the bomb is already active, all they have to do is kick your ass and keep you locked or tied up.

If it's not active, or they don't know for sure, all they have to do is torture you. Apparently they're all capable of killing for money, so I hardly see a problem with breaking a servant's kneecaps for a bomb switch location.

And that assumes they don't just use the knowledge of the bomb to, I dunno........ leave. "Oh, you can blow up the house? But only at midnight? Well, pack a sandwich folks, we're gonna walk away from this place and get as far away as we possibly can in the next 16 hours." It's not like Yasu's explosives can follow them.

[Jan-Poo]

Not to mention the fact that apparently they indeed came to find a way to escape from the explosion in the "real world" since both Eva and Battler did it.

Of course that's probably because Eva solved the riddle, but you still have Rosa who managed to find the Kuwadorian by mere chance simply roaming around randomly (which means you don't need to find the tunnel to escape).

So you'll have to imagine that Beatrice lied and told them that the whole island would blow up... and then you really need to be incredibly gullible...


Even ignoring that, there is still the fact: "we need to do as she says or she'll kill us all... but wait... she is killing us all... and we are helping her!"

[rogerpepitone]

In Episode 1, they implied that the forest can be dangerous at night, due to the risk of things like tripping over a root.

Rosa found her way across the island on a clear day. They'd be crossing the island when it's windy and rainy, and possibly at night.

Also, since Kuwadorian is near the shore, it wouldn't be too difficult to find if you know it's there; just walk around the perimeter.

[AuraTwilight]

The cast of Umineko is critically stupid. It's required for Yasu to be the culprit in the first place. George culprit, hell yea.

[Jan-Poo]

due to the risk of things like tripping over a root.

Let me ponder between the risk of tripping over a root and the unpleasantness of staying in a place where people keep dying horribly and a megaton bomb is bound to go off...
........
.....

I'll take my chances with the roots...


Jokes apart, normally I'd never travel through a forest at night and in the middle of a typhoon, I know it can be very risky, but I think the prospect of being blown to smitherens would decidedly nullify any residual reticency on my part.

[jjblue1]

I'm a newby so I'm not sure if this is allowed but I'm building up a theory for how Battler escaped and, of course, that part has yet to be translated by Witch Hunt.
I managed to find summearies of it and other random info but there's something I'd like to be confirmed.
Did Battler ended up on a wheelchair due to the injuries he received during his escape from Rokkenjima or due to a suicide attempt? Because I found both versions and I'd like to know which is true if possible.

In case this sort of questions can be done I apologize...

[AuraTwilight]

He was fine until he attempted to jump into the water after Beatrice, so whatever happened to him happened between that moment and his washing ashore.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

He was fine until he attempted to jump into the water after Beatrice, so whatever happened to him happened between that moment and his washing ashore.

Assuming that's what actually happened, what with his having difficulties actually remembering it.

I find it highly unlikely one could get injuries of that nature from near-drowning, though I admit I have no idea how else one could get them. Unless he got shot at some point...

[AuraTwilight]

The same way he got Bullshit Hollywood Amnesia.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I'm a newby so I'm not sure if this is allowed but I'm building up a theory for how Battler escaped and, of course, that part has yet to be translated by Witch Hunt.
I managed to find summearies of it and other random info but there's something I'd like to be confirmed.
Did Battler ended up on a wheelchair due to the injuries he received during his escape from Rokkenjima or due to a suicide attempt? Because I found both versions and I'd like to know which is true if possible.

In case this sort of questions can be done I apologize...

You know I'm actually not so sure because I'm not 100% proficient in japanese and we are talking about something I read more than half a year ago, but I think it is hinted that the whellchair is the result of his suicide attempt.

Brain damage, however, was diagnosticated as soon as he was found by Ikuko. The official explanation is that that was caused by anoxia. But honestly... that's not possible. If you are drowning and you reach the point where your brain starts deteriorating due to lack of oxygen, you either get rescued by someone or you die, you can't possibly recover from that without help. And no, not even washing ashore at the right moment would work. The lungs would be inevitably filled with water, and they won't empty by themselves.
Ikuko did not rescue Battler from the sea, she found him on a street, supposedly he walked there by himself while semi-conscious.
The best explanation for this in my opinion is that Battler received a heavy concussion on his head when the bomb exploded. It was an old cavern and the shock might have caused a rock to fall. This would also explain Battler's wackyness prior to falling from the boat.
But then that doctor should be pretty incompetent to not notice the concussion.

Unless he was Nanjo's son... of course!

[jjblue1]

Thank you everyone for the replies!

[jjblue1]

Ikuko did not rescue Battler from the sea, she found him on a street, supposedly he walked there by himself while semi-conscious.

Is it sure she found him on a street?
I couldn't read the piece in Japanese but I've had it being described as a tricky piece because at first you should get the idea it's Ange that's thrown in the car and saved by Ikuko and only later you realize it's Battler.

[Jan-Poo]

What you say is correct.
If I didn't misunderstand something:

ここは天下の公道だ。そなたは挽き肉になりたいのか？
This is a public road. Do you want to become mincemeat?

That's one of the lines Ikuko says in the scene where she finds Battler, although in that instance you are made to believe it's Ange.

[jjblue1]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

So is it possible to estabilish where the Ange bit end and the Battler bit start?
And more important, is Battler somewhat conscious when he's tossed in the car? Because I read that he regained consciousness in the car...

... and sorry to be so annoying...

[Sherringford]

Originally Posted by Renall

Assuming that's what actually happened, what with his having difficulties actually remembering it.

I find it highly unlikely one could get injuries of that nature from near-drowning, though I admit I have no idea how else one could get them. Unless he got shot at some point...

He could have gotten his back hit against the water due to the strong waves, I suppose.

And apparently spinal and neurological injuries when drowning aren't uncommon.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

So is it possible to estabilish where the Ange bit end and the Battler bit start?

that depends on how smart you are I guess.
There are about 2 or 3 flashback scenes seen from the perspective of "Tohya" and you never get to see him nor it is ever esplicitly said that it's Battler or that Tohya is male.
Note that the only thing Tohya remembers about himself is the age, which is the same in Ange's case.
At one point Tohya starts remembering, if you reason you probably can guess that it makes more sense to think he's Battler and not Ange but there's no conclusive proof.

Much later you see the scene of October 6 1986. There you learn that Battler survived and then it becomes much easier to understand the person Ikuko saved was Battler but there's still no direct connection.

The definitive proof comes at the very end of the ura tea party where you finally see Tohya and where he admits to be Battler in front of Ange.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

And more important, is Battler somewhat conscious when he's tossed in the car? Because I read that he regained consciousness in the car...

... and sorry to be so annoying...

I'm not even sure a car was mentioned... but he was definitely conscious when Ikuko found him on the street, because everything is narrated through his direct perspective, however he was unable to speak.