Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Bogart]

So Heaven's Base got rocked. Feels like a non-event since Logos barely qualify as an enemy at this point. Even if they'd won, what would they be able to do? Like I mentioned before, a group of warmongers out for an easy buck is just ridiculous. Back in Seed, the war just felt so gritty, dark, and oppressive. This time around it just feels so...every day. Average. Lots more people are dying, but I just don't feel invested in it at all.

Destiny feels powerful, but only when it uses the two handed sword. Somehow it feels less well-armed than the Impulse or even the Strike.

Kira used the Strike one last time. Kind of shows how much he's grown since Seed. Or maybe the mooks have just gotten worse. Wish Lacus didn't act so reluctant to give it to him. Man flew into outer space to save her. Being worried about him will only cause him to worry. Just smile and be glad he came to save you!

Cagalli took charge in Orb, but it really felt like they were just going through the motions. They'd been in Orb for weeks, if not months, and she only steps up when there is a battle going on? Worst part was that she was going to go out into the Skygrasper, which caused me to have a nostalgic feeling just from the thought of it. Then from out of no where a gaudy-looking bundle of cheapness came out of nowhere and Cagalli cries over her dad one last time, ruining everything forever!

Even Yuna being pummeled on her order didn't do anything for me.

Strike Freedom seems weaker than Freedom. The loss of the over-the-shoulder cannons is really felt in the atmosphere. I know that S. Freedom can duel wield beam rifles, but that's barely noticeable outside of the times Kira combines them into the cannon or when he throw them away to disarm Destiny of it's sword. Maybe he'll do some gun-kata stuff later on?

I have no idea what Athrun hoped to accomplish by speaking to Shinn during their battle. He didn't really say anything and Shinn just seemed to be sitting back in stunned silence that Athrun was still alive. Then Shinn got all ragey and basically only told Athrun to shut up, and considering the worthless drivel spilling out of Athrun's mouth, I have to agree with him lol

Lacus finally let the cat out of the bag that Gil has been deceiving everyone in Plant about her, but it feels like it's too little too late. The most she actually managed to do was embarrass poor Meer.

[kuroihikari2]

Originally Posted by Bogart

Destiny feels powerful, but only when it uses the two handed sword. Somehow it feels less well-armed than the Impulse or even the Strike.

Strike Freedom seems weaker than Freedom. The loss of the over-the-shoulder cannons is really felt in the atmosphere. I know that S. Freedom can duel wield beam rifles, but that's barely noticeable outside of the times Kira combines them into the cannon or when he throw them away to disarm Destiny of it's sword. Maybe he'll do some gun-kata stuff later on?

The Destiny and the Strike Freedom both have their version of the Wings of Light technology, which produces after images and makes them speed up considerably. This makes them near impossible to hit or be kept up with by normal pilots.

In my opinion, the Destiny is more a one-on-one suit, and a more balanced suit between the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice. It's only too bad that the show reuses animation a lot; it's partly because of that that both the Wings of Light and the Destiny itself are not given justice. Shinn's fights mostly end with a roar,flare wings of light, hold Arondight in front, charge and stab.

Also you won't see the Strike Freedom use its full potential until it's in space.

Spoiler for Not a big spoiler on the weapons:

In space, the Strike Freedom spams its DRAGOONs (this show's equivalent of bits or funnels) like there's no tomorrow. Not only is it a mass mobile suit destroying Gundam, it becomes the one-on-one headache most funnel-using MSs are.

[monster]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

Also you won't see the Strike Freedom use its full potential until it's in space.

Spoiler for Not a big spoiler on the weapons:

In space, the Strike Freedom spams its DRAGOONs (this show's equivalent of bits or funnels) like there's no tomorrow. Not only is it a mass mobile suit destroying Gundam, it becomes the one-on-one headache most funnel-using MSs are.

The viewers would've already seen that in its debut.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by kuroihikari2

The Destiny and the Strike Freedom both have their version of the Wings of Light technology, which produces after images and makes them speed up considerably. This makes them near impossible to hit or be kept up with by normal pilots.

In my opinion, the Destiny is more a one-on-one suit, and a more balanced suit between the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice. It's only too bad that the show reuses animation a lot; it's partly because of that that both the Wings of Light and the Destiny itself are not given justice. Shinn's fights mostly end with a roar,flare wings of light, hold Arondight in front, charge and stab.

Also you won't see the Strike Freedom use its full potential until it's in space.

Spoiler for Not a big spoiler on the weapons:

In space, the Strike Freedom spams its DRAGOONs (this show's equivalent of bits or funnels) like there's no tomorrow. Not only is it a mass mobile suit destroying Gundam, it becomes the one-on-one headache most funnel-using MSs are.

Not just any DRAGOONs, but second-generation DRAGOONs, allowing pilots with little or no spatial awareness (i.e., normal pilots) to use them effectively.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Not just any DRAGOONs, but second-generation DRAGOONs, allowing pilots with little or no spatial awareness (i.e., normal pilots) to use them effectively.

Even then Kira does not seem to use them to their fullest potential (guess thats the avoiding killing part kicking in)

In comparison to the Providence/Legend and other Gundam series funnel/fang/bit equipped MS, Kira fires them quite conservatively (he uses them for more accurate shots as opposed to constant beam fire seen with other suits with such weapons)

[Rising Dragon]

To be fair, that's all he can do with the so-called "Super" DRAGOONs. Kira's DRAGOONs only utilize a single beam emitter, and he has eight of them. All other DRAGOONs used in the show use anywhere between two and nine beam emitters, resulting in far more firepower than Kira could ever hope to match with DRAGOONs alone. Combine that with his combat methodology and his avoidance of lethal attacks, and it's little wonder.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

To be fair, that's all he can do with the so-called "Super" DRAGOONs. Kira's DRAGOONs only utilize a single beam emitter, and he has eight of them. All other DRAGOONs used in the show use anywhere between two and nine beam emitters, resulting in far more firepower than Kira could ever hope to match with DRAGOONs alone. Combine that with his combat methodology and his avoidance of lethal attacks, and it's little wonder.

My thinking is not every beam is created equal. There are things like power, range, accuracy. That SF's DRAGOONs are so much larger than any of the others in the series reflects this.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Bogart

My thinking is not every beam is created equal. There are things like power, range, accuracy. That SF's DRAGOONs are so much larger than any of the others in the series reflects this.

Pfft. The show makes little differentiation between beam strengths of beams the same color. 'bout the only difference we see between green particle beams in SEED are those used by mobile suits and those used by warship turrets, and that's done only through size of the beams fired.

There is NOTHING to say that the Super DRAGOONs are stronger than other DRAGOONs, especially when the others pump out far more firepower and blanket entire regions in lethal energy fire. It'd be believable if they fired beams like the ones used by Kira's combined rifle, but they don't. They're no larger or more impressive than any other regular rifle shot in SEED.

No, I'm afraid that the Super DRAGOONs are called Super just to make Kira's weaponry sound more special than they actually are.

[monster]

As far as I can tell, the only differentiation for the Strike Freedom's DRAGOONs is that they are also the Strike Freedom's wings. So the SUPER designation might be manufacturer's branding to denote that additional purpose.

[Rising Dragon]

Doubtful, because you can say the same about the Legend's DRAGOONs.

[shadow1296]

the problem i have with the strike freedom's dragoons is that they are completely and utterly useless in atmosphere, the legend can still atleast use its on earth because it can fire them from their mounted positions the strike freedom cannot

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Doubtful, because you can say the same about the Legend's DRAGOONs.

The Legend only uses its DRAGOONs as weapons.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

the problem i have with the strike freedom's dragoons is that they are completely and utterly useless in atmosphere, the legend can still atleast use its on earth because it can fire them from their mounted positions the strike freedom cannot

The DRAGOONs serve as wings while docked.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by monster

The DRAGOONs serve as wings while docked.

no they don't, are just stored on the wings they provide no lift or propulsion its propulsion comes from the voiture lumiere system which is only at full power when the dragoons are detached, and the himat wings themselves the dragoons have little to no effect to its mobility in the atmosphere, i just looked it up

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Pfft. The show makes little differentiation between beam strengths of beams the same color. 'bout the only difference we see between green particle beams in SEED are those used by mobile suits and those used by warship turrets, and that's done only through size of the beams fired.

There is NOTHING to say that the Super DRAGOONs are stronger than other DRAGOONs, especially when the others pump out far more firepower and blanket entire regions in lethal energy fire. It'd be believable if they fired beams like the ones used by Kira's combined rifle, but they don't. They're no larger or more impressive than any other regular rifle shot in SEED.

No, I'm afraid that the Super DRAGOONs are called Super just to make Kira's weaponry sound more special than they actually are.

There are brief sequences of mooks being picked apart by the smaller DRAGOONs of the Legend and the Providence. Freedom itself took several hits to the chest area and wasn't crippled by any means.

Of course, here I am, stuck with the final few episodes of Destiny and it's just awful. I don't feel like I've got anything to look forward to. Meer just got killed off, despite the fact that Lacus having a double could lead to all kinds of future hijinks.

Plant losing about a quarter of it's population, I guess, was a long time in coming all things considered. Unless they were a member ZAFT, they've been sitting the war out pretty cozy like. Dodged many bullets.

You know, I think I've grown to hate Orb. They were a nice safe harbor back in Seed, but they got their butts kicked proper when it came down to it. But it's just mentioned way too much and disproportionally important in the scheme of things. Basically all of the characters in the series either love it or hate it.

It's a shitty little country stuck out in the middle of no where and it's basically just better than everywhere else. That's the sense I get from it. They are the country that does nothing and they are very proud of that fact. A fact that they won't ever let anyone forget. Ever.

As for the Destiny Plan, I think people would be interested in knowing what their genes say about them. It sounds like a more credible form of astrology or blood-type. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but the whole forced conscription and totalitarian government part of it is kind of a deal breaker.

Worst thing is it's impossible to tell if Gil really planned everything from the start or if he just took advantage whenever the opportunity arose. I simply can't bring myself to care if he's stopped or not. He actually has a plan, an idea, something new that hasn't really been tried before. All everyone else in the series has done is either commit genocide or whine about how much they don't know.

Only a few episodes left. Still might be time for things to end on a high note.

Originally Posted by shadow1296

no they don't, are just stored on the wings they provide no lift of propulsion it propulsions comes from the voiture lumiere system which is only at full power when the dragoons are detached, and the himat wings themselves the dragoons have little to no effect to its mobility in the atmosphere, i just looked it up

The DRAGOONs thrusters are used while docked. You can see it during S. Freedom's launch sequences.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Bogart

The DRAGOONs thrusters are used while docked. You can see it during S. Freedom's launch sequences.

if you are talking about this

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that thruster exhaust isn't coming from the strike freedom wings but the thrusters on its back and the voiture lumiere system can still be activated while the dragoons are still attatched as shown here

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[monster]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

no they don't, are just stored on the wings they provide no lift or propulsion its propulsion comes from the voiture lumiere system which is only at full power when the dragoons are detached, and the himat wings themselves the dragoons have little to no effect to its mobility in the atmosphere, i just looked it up

The DRAGOONs are the wings. Without it, HiMAT doesn't work.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

if you are talking about this

Images

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that thruster exhaust isn't coming from the strike freedom wings but the thrusters on its back and the voiture lumiere system can still be activated while the dragoons are still attatched as shown here

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No, check the OPs where the Strike Freedom launches to join with the title. You can see thrusters activating on the DRAGOONs themselves. That said, Voiture Lumiere would provide superior propulsion in-atmosphere so it really would be better off without them.

Originally Posted by monster

The DRAGOONs are the wings. Without it, HiMAT doesn't work.

We've been over this. HiMAT would work just fine without the Super DRAGOONs docked, because the Voiture Lumiere system is superior to them in just about every way.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

We've been over this. HiMAT would work just fine without the Super DRAGOONs docked, because the Voiture Lumiere system is superior to them in just about every way.

The VL system may be superior, but that has nothing to do with the HiMAT system.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

The VL system may be superior, but that has nothing to do with the HiMAT system.

It has everything to do with the HiMAT system. I mean bloody hell, even the BD additions to the Remaster now support the argument, BECAUSE ITS USING THEM IN ATMOSPHERE. The Voiture Lumiere thrusters provide far more thrust and maneuverability than the DRAGOONs could ever hope to accomplish.

About the only thing they do accomplish in-atmosphere is A) provide lift surfaces for flight (which the Legend's DRAGOONs also perform, intended or not), and B) weigh the machine down. Ditch them and you've got wings of light that provide better thrust and lift surfaces, and the SF is that much lighter.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by monster

The DRAGOONs are the wings. Without it, HiMAT doesn't work.

actually it as it still works when the dragoon are removed, the dragoon pods are attatched to the wings but are not the wings themselves, remeber when i said that it can still use the voiture lumiere system while the dragoons are still attached well technically they aren't really they slightly detatched so the system can activate but only enough to activate the system the dragoons are still technically attached to the wings but not really