(L) Hai to Gensou to Grimmgal

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by zeross87

i dare you to go take a bow or a knife, find a murderer/terrorist or whatever armed with a blade and murder intent that is trying to kill you and your friend in front of you, then be calm and efficient in the situation.
i think most people in the world would just piss their pant, faint and be even more useless than those guys; a week of training or not;

yes this feel like a game and in a game you are pathetic if you can't kill a lvl1 gob, but for them its their lives, they're noob, disoriented and probably scared to death, cut them some slack already

Indeed, and unlike a game, making any kind of efficient attack is more complicated than mashing a button.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

More likely "they" had no use for teenagers who have own thoughts, experience and might as well ditch they job and do something else than they are told.

And what thoughts and experience would a teenagers have, that would be useful? Maybe a handful have helped out at home and waited on tables or even cooked, but how many of such jobs are available?

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by zeross87

i dare you to go take a bow or a knife, find a murderer/terrorist or whatever armed with a blade and murder intent that is trying to kill you and your friend in front of you, then be calm and efficient in the situation.
i think most people in the world would just piss their pant, faint and be even more useless than those guys; a week of training or not;

yes this feel like a game and in a game you are pathetic if you can't kill a lvl1 gob, but for them its their lives, they're noob, disoriented and probably scared to death, cut them some slack already

If the other group is doing exactly taking the bow and knife and fighting the murders/terrorist", why they being afraid make then better.
They where the ones in the "agressive" not the goblins, then they where supposed to be ready to fight if they can't then just don't go, now keep risking they lifes and doing mistakes over and over n ot gonna help, probably the only reason they are still alives is because of the goblins not really want to kill then and let then run whenever the group fail.

Another note they were fighting 2 goblins in a group of 6 which was much better "armed than the 2", your comparation with murderers and terrorists is terrible since the group also have strong weapons and are in a big number is the same you have 2 guys armed with 1 pistol each one and 6 peoples armed with aka, pistols and others weapons, the only difference is how much ready to use it they are.

You don't see a assassin goes to a killing attempt without being ready or a army going to a war without be "ready", ready means have the basic knowledge and nevers to fight for they lifes.

"No one is really forcing then to anything" all are they choices, they are the ones doing mistakes, if they are noobs to the point of not even being able to kill a weak gooblin then they must find another way to live, they can try to "catch fishes to eat, the rogue could have tried to sneak at the goblings while they are sleeping and stealing things for then or even stealing peoples.

The situation which they are is nothing something which they can afford to be "scared" or to be being noob, one mistake and you are dead.

the perfect exemple is the other group which already adapted to the situation and unlike this group is doing what they need to survive and adapt fast and they where also teens and in the same situation of this group being clueless and all bla bla bla.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And what thoughts and experience would a teenagers have, that would be useful? Maybe a handful have helped out at home and waited on tables or even cooked, but how many of such jobs are available?

Surely even that is more useful than nothing. I know sometimes it's hard to believe but even teenagers might have own opinions that have worth. We live in era where nothing is more easy than learning.

[zeross87]

i should watch a second time, but i don't think they were really presented witch a choice, i recall the trav to present it like "its how things are done here", not like "you could do that", but again i need to watch a second time to be sure when i'll have access to my computer

the other group being more efficient is a non argument, some people are better and have the guts to fight new situation, other not. and i recall the other group to be constituted of the less noobs of the initial group so ofc they'll do better.

[Xellos-_^]

btw why i do i keep seeing reference in comments to how this is another
trap in mmorpg" type anime. When there is absolutely no ref in the show to them being trap in a game?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Surely even that is more useful than nothing. I know sometimes it's hard to believe but even teenagers might have own opinions that have worth. We live in era where nothing is more easy than learning.

Yes, but would they have learned here anything relevant to their situation there? Even if there's some kind of genius in there who'd know enough of medieval engineering or some craft to be useful, they'd still need enough capital to start a business. And they'd need a market. (Weapons are in demand, obviously, but it's likely the town is already well supplied.)

Not having memories lets them adapt to the thought that hunting monsters is the best and only way to earn a living. There may be a few open positions for menial labor (including prostitution, not that I'd want to see that), but not enough to feed them all.

[zeross87]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

btw why i do i keep seeing reference in comments to how this is another
trap in mmorpg" type anime. When there is absolutely no ref in the show to them being trap in a game?

there is not explicit reference no, but the whole setting scream mmo.
at least we know its normal kids trapped on another world and lost memory of previous word, that is told (someone mention a cellphone before realizing he dont know what a cellphone is, and the other one mention a game without realizing that he don't know what a game is).
it could very well be just a fantasy word and not a game, we don't know yet.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by zeross87

i should watch a second time, but i don't think they were really presented witch a choice, i recall the trav to present it like "its how things are done here", not like "you could do that", but again i need to watch a second time to be sure when i'll have access to my computer

Bri's explanation of their situation was essentially, "You should join the Volunteer Army. You could try going another route, but you'll probably die before long. At least with the Volunteer Army you've got a shot."

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by zeross87

there is not explicit reference no, but the whole setting scream mmo.
at least we know its normal kids trapped on another world and lost memory of previous word, that is told (someone mention a cellphone before realizing he dont know what a cellphone is, and the other one mention a game without realizing that he don't know what a game is).
it could very well be just a fantasy word and not a game, we don't know yet.

Exactly.

There are several subtle references others have already pointed out that implies this the case regardless if this was truly a game once before or not. The show at this point seems content to leave that question to our imagination. It's not like the lines between high fantasy and MMO fantasy hasn't been blurred nowadays "cough" Danmachi, Overlord "cough".

With how easily you can slip game metaphors and concepts/mechanics into this I'm not sure if distinction even matters anymore.

[DXMichael]

I like this anime. It's one thing to be stuck in a fantasy gaming world like Sword Art Online and Log Horizon where the characters are aware that they're in the game and need to figure out how it works, what this anime does differently is it takes out the awareness situation and now we're left with a bunch of teenagers/adults who are trying to get by as if this is their original life since they have no memory of their real life. They know the rules of the world, levelling, guilds, monsters but they don't necessarily understand it from a gamers point of view which is a nice touch.

Also I like Barbara sensei. More Barbara sensei please

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by zeross87

there is not explicit reference no, but the whole setting scream mmo.

As pointed out by another poster earlier, why do people insist on 'MMO'? It seems much more like a classic JRPG setting.

You have a consistent party of six characters with typical JRPG professions - Warrior (front row), Dark Knight (front row), Thief (front row), Hunter (Ranger?) (back row), Magician (black mage?) (back row), Priest (white mage?) (back row). As a JRPG party, this makes tons of sense; three front row characters (damage dealer, damage dealer with magic, front row support) and three back row characters (back row damage dealer, magic damage dealer, healer/support). As an MMO party, it makes a lot less sense (five damage dealers (rogues in MMOs always seem to focus on damage, no real support) and only a single healer; no dedicated tank or buff character (priest is occupied with healing)).

Then there's the guilds which are trainers rather than communities, and there don't seem to be any MMO-like adventurer meetups or marketplaces. It just doesn't seem MMO-ish to me at all.

[Anh_Minh]

No obvious chosen one, but lots of parties each doing their thing makes it an MMO, I think.

[Iron Maw]

MMO is shorthand for Massive-Multiplayer Role Playing Game (aka MMORPGs). They are RPGs for most part as they more or les contain all the elements of you typical offline RPG, just online. Don't see the point in getting hang up with semantics about this.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

MMO is shorthand for Massive-Multiplayer Role Playing Game (aka MMORPGs). They are RPGs for most part as they more or les contain all the elements of you typical offline RPG, just online. Don't see the point in getting hang up with semantics about this.

Yeah, exactly. Plus the fact that we know better western MMORPGs like World of Warcraft doesn't mean there aren't Japanese-style MMOs out there too. Anyway that kind of party is just a sensible tactic to use, it's not random, and it's a pattern used often in MMORPGs as well for that reason.

[Nicaea]

What are the chances of them considering to trap one goblin and making it easier to kill?

[kasimmorathi]

Originally Posted by DXMichael

I like this anime. It's one thing to be stuck in a fantasy gaming world like Sword Art Online and Log Horizon where the characters are aware that they're in the game and need to figure out how it works, what this anime does differently is it takes out the awareness situation and now we're left with a bunch of teenagers/adults who are trying to get by as if this is their original life since they have no memory of their real life. They know the rules of the world, levelling, guilds, monsters but they don't necessarily understand it from a gamers point of view which is a nice touch.

Also I like Barbara sensei. More Barbara sensei please

To tag onto this, the other reason I much prefer this compared to Log Horizon or SAO, is it doesn't come across as a power fantasy. These certainly aren't "max level" characters. They are struggling just defeat a goblin; a monster that is almost on slime levels of weakness. However, that's why I'm rooting for them and that is why I'm so excited to watch their adventure. I want to see them develop and have an arc.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

btw why i do i keep seeing reference in comments to how this is another
trap in mmorpg" type anime. When there is absolutely no ref in the show to them being trap in a game?

Prob because people in western communities aren't exposed to all the isekai stuff so they don't know what to call it. Now consider the only reference they know to a similar scenario is SAO which isn't even isekai and you get a lot of wrong categorizations

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, but would they have learned here anything relevant to their situation there? Even if there's some kind of genius in there who'd know enough of medieval engineering or some craft to be useful, they'd still need enough capital to start a business. And they'd need a market. (Weapons are in demand, obviously, but it's likely the town is already well supplied.)

Not having memories lets them adapt to the thought that hunting monsters is the best and only way to earn a living. There may be a few open positions for menial labor (including prostitution, not that I'd want to see that), but not enough to feed them all.

It's not about having memories would give them any concrete advantage, but it would allow me think about it their situation in broader context. Lack of awareness make people obedient. That's real and only reason why erasing memories would be done.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Well, not really, besides the first sum they give you money FOR KILLING MONSTERS. Which as we've seen is all but easy. Unskilled labour usually means doing stuff like transporting weighty things, washing dishes, cleaning... all back-breaking shit that requires no specific ability but at least not as risky as hunting down monsters. That looks way more like specialized work to me. And I am just assuming we're supposed to take some things at face value as far as the anime's exposition goes, or the game of speculations will never end. At least the world is presented to us in order for it to *feel* like a game. If it works by different rules we'll find out.

There probably are other manual labour jobs, but here's the problem. It's clear this tower must spit out groups of people on a fairly regular basis (why would you have a recruiting office if there was no one to recruit). Unless an equal number of tradespeople are leaving at the same rate new people are showing up, they'll likely saturate the local economy's job market pretty fast. So unless the newcomer is more skilled than the person already working the job, you're probably not getting hired. Why spend time teaching someone new when you already have someone you've trained? These people are going into this with essentially the clothes on their backs and that's it, it's also unclear whether they would remember any relevant skills from the old world anyway.

Compare this to a place that's willing to front you money to fight monsters that apparently pays well. It's dangerous work, but other than "you could die if you're not strong enough", they aren't really giving you an indicator of how dangerous that actually is. I mean "you could die if you're hit by a car while walking to work" doesn't mean that walking around in the city is so dangerous that you should expect to be killed at any second. With no frame of reference, it's a bit hard to take those words seriously. If he said "half of you will be dead by next week if you join", that's at least quantifiable and terrifying.

[Master_Yoma]

Hmmm well its different everyone is just a bunch of noobs and got no skills or strength