Angel Beats! generic discussion

[Dr. Casey]

I wonder when the next popularity poll's going to be. I hope TK doesn't get such a ridiculous amount of votes this time seeing as he's just a vaguely amusing gimmick joke character and doesn't really deserve to compete with Otonashi, Yuri, Yui, etc... that is, people that are actual characters.

[Wigwams]

Originally Posted by GDB

I haven't really seen any tsundere behavior from her.



It's binary, since it's all powers gained from computer code.

i think she is kinda tsundere to hinata? hmm.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

i think she is kinda tsundere to hinata? hmm.

Seems like Hinata create the Tsundere from the women around him. Yuri use to be the one attacking him. Now it is Yui. And in the prenovel the ninja girl use to attack him when he was defending Yuri.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Seems like Hinata create the Tsundere from the women around him. Yuri use to be the one attacking him. Now it is Yui. And in the prenovel the ninja girl use to attack him when he was defending Yuri.

Methinks Hinata is the Male Punching Bag that always seems to work itself into Maeda's more recent works, for comedic effect. There was Masato in Little Busters!, then Sunohara in Clannad, and now Hinata. At least Hinata isn't afraid to fight back.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I wonder when the next popularity poll's going to be. I hope TK doesn't get such a ridiculous amount of votes this time seeing as he's just a vaguely amusing gimmick joke character and doesn't really deserve to compete with Otonashi, Yuri, Yui, etc... that is, people that are actual characters.

I agree, I mean he's an amusing character , but so is Shiina, and Noda so I don't get the massive popularity.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Seems like Hinata create the Tsundere from the women around him. Yuri use to be the one attacking him. Now it is Yui. And in the prenovel the ninja girl use to attack him when he was defending Yuri.

Just realise that they would be more like Yandere if taking out of AB context

[Hypernova]

Looks like with the news that TK doesn't actually know english his votes have slipped

The count is now a definitive lead of 1.66M vs 1.48M.

http://www.tulip-tv.co.jp/research/i...ARCH_RESULT=68

[Arbitres]

-And I think Naoi is a blatant rip-off of Naoto. I wonder if he's also a trap

Think of it like I did. It'll help... Hopefully.

Spoiler for Differences I can think of:

You can get Naoto into a seifuku.
You can't get Naoi into a seifuku.

Naoto is a detective prince.
Naoi is a Student Council President.

Naoto is short.
Naoi is relatively tall.

That's about it. A lot of their characters are similar other then those I can get off the top of my head.... But I wouldn't mind it in the least to see Naoi in a seifuku.


I recently thought this up but... Isn't Noda a bit of yandere? He is obsessive-love about Yurippe and he tends to be destructive or obstructive about it to the point it actually harms himself others.

xD Noda is yandere? Thoughts? I'm pointing that out to see if it holds water. xD

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Hypernova

Looks like with the news that TK doesn't actually know english his votes have slipped

The count is now a definitive lead of 1.66M vs 1.48M.

http://www.tulip-tv.co.jp/research/i...ARCH_RESULT=68

TK has 1.48 million and almost everyone else except Kanade got in the hundreds?

what

I mean, I could sort of understand it with the poll taken after the first episode or whatever because the show was new and the characters hadn't been given much attention or focus so they were all on equaler footing, but now that we're mostly done with the series... I guess Japan really does just love one-note joke characters that show up for five seconds per episode that much. LOL he speaks English and is soooo zany XD XD XD TK 4ever

[iceyfw]

i stopped watching angel beats after episode 3 due to classes and all i can say is after watching episodes 4 to 10 tonight, it's easily beats most, if not almost all, of the anime that have been airing the past year for me. i absolutely love the subplot twists that took place in every episode. it doesn't get boring at all.

and i have to say 13 episodes does not give this anime justice. if there is a second season in the works depending on how this ends, then i'm all for it. but if they're considering continuing this through mangas, light novels, or even a VN, i hope there are some kind translators willing to put their free time translating.

[icyhandofcrap]

I'm hoping for Track Zero to get animated. It's a pretty awesome story as well, although I guess most of the mystery will have been taken out already.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I wonder when the next popularity poll's going to be. I hope TK doesn't get such a ridiculous amount of votes this time seeing as he's just a vaguely amusing gimmick joke character and doesn't really deserve to compete with Otonashi, Yuri, Yui, etc... that is, people that are actual characters.

Whose who can not see TK's brilliance clearly have not watched enough anime.

[roriconfan]

Here is what I think of the series so far. I doubt it will change my opinion when it finishes.

Spoiler for preview and possible spoilers:

Angel Beats is an original *cough* work made by Kyoto Animation and produced through Aniplex, involving an original *cough* work regarding teenagers (ooh really?) in a school setting (you don’t say!) doing comical stuff (never heard that one before) with the pretext of staying alive in a bizarre afterlife inside a videogame-like world (although Gantz does not give them kill points after battles).



ANIMATION SECTION [ Haibane Renmei meets Suzumiya Haruhi ]

General Artwork 2/2:
My, look at that, Kyoto Animation decided to leave aside the melodramatic date sim and novel adaptations for a while ( Air, Kanon, Clannad, Haruhi ). The series yells high budget all the way and that means a viewing pleasure of delight. The backgrounds are very detailed and have a gazillion filters to make them look shinny, gradient, and generally like gorgeous sceneries in visual novel date sims. Yeah, KeyAni pulls what it does best even if it AIN’T a game adaptation.
I could argue how silly everything looks during comical moments with the SD and low frame rate during those moments, but it’s perfectly acceptable since it’s supposed to make you laugh and not criticize a Da Vinci sculpture. So overall; great artwork

Character Figures 2/2:
They went for bijin looks and silly gimmicks and I must say it worked great. All characters are drawn with smooth outlines that hardly look weird. Plus they look like they are fashion models doing a parade, trying to look as cool as possible. Yup, easy way to attract the fans of moe and kawaii. It goes overboard of course but, hey, the setting is supposed to be a virtual afterlife and thus it is excused in-series to be so hunk/hot/drooling (after all, if it sells, why change it?). No worries here; they look great and don’t deform outside of excused comical moments.

Backgrounds 2/2:
Mostly a typical school setting with a few extras like underground passages full of traps, and military facilities full of weapons of mass destruction. I can’t say there is much variety in here but the type of the story excuses it nicely. And heck, even school grounds have variety by themselves if the characters keep running around. I usually prefer more but it’s ok all things considered.

Motion Fluidity & Visual Effects 3/4:
Meh, they are good but not great. A lot of time is spent on gags with low frame movements and superflat looks, while the use of 3D is not always that successful. Also, fighting scenes are just random magic gizmos appearing out of nowhere while explosions and bullets don’t really seem to damage the backgrounds most of the times. Nothing of all these are done terribly, like in series such as 07 Ghost for example, but it does feel cheap at times and ruins a part of the fun. But this can be countered by the few school band festivals. They are as great as in “that other series” which by the way has nothing to do with this “original” work. In all, the characters have vividness and move really lively most of the times, It’s just that they overdone it with the comedy SD and it took some points away.

TOTAL FOR ANIMATION: 9/10



SOUND SECTION [So what is the name of our team today?]

Voice Acting 3/3: This is another one of those series where the characters make a lot of jokes and gags based on stereotypes. That is, they speak in a totally clichéd way, just so another one can pull out a comeback one-liner and create a joke out of it. Not a new approach to anime as it has been done better in older series such as Sayonara Zetsubo or Bakemonogatari … which have nothing to do with this “original” work despite the odd coincidence of the main lead having the same voice actor as in those older shows. But it’s ok, it was still funny and witty to the most part and I did enjoy it a lot. Even during serious moments, the quality of the dialogue is well done and the voices never feel ridiculous at those times.

Music Themes & Sound Effects 6/7: I didn’t lose my mind over the songs. They range somewhere between elegiac and average pop and they are definitely well made but I am not fond of such types to know if they are really good to the ear. I sure have no qualms about them. The thing I liked most is how they used said music themes in slapstick moments (slow motion jokes) and even in-story (a school band playing music to distract the students from the battle raging outside). The rest of the battle or comical sounds are nothing much but thanks to the uniform of music and story, they feel far more relevant and good.

TOTAL FOR SOUND: 9/10



STORY SECTION [ Gantzers meet the SOS Brigade ]

General Scenario 2/2:

Spoiler:

Well, the main idea is sure interesting. It’s about people with harsh lives who are killed being sent to an in-between stage of afterlife, where they are students in a school full of NPC people as well as an Angel who is sent by God to kill them. And by “kill” means to just stop them from being rebellious towards the system of this virtual reality. For you see, they are already dead and no matter what happens to them, they come back to life a few minutes later. But if they comply with the school regulations for too long, they disappear entirely. So the main team of high-schoolers has this arsenal of weapons and fights the Angel all the time, while causing chaos in the school in order to make sure they stay alive... or dead… or whatever.

That is the main idea and it’s indeed intriguing. Too bad it also…

Believability/Reasoning/Realism 0/2:
…falls apart in 30 seconds and it’s mostly thrown aside for lots of comedy and rushed drama.

Spoiler:

Why do the students refuse to disappear? They clearly know that they will be reincarnated or go to heaven or something like that. Why do they want to stay stuck in a world full of fake people, and battling indefinitely messengers from God? And how did they find the means to make all those weapon manufacture facilities? And what’s stopping them from leaving the school? Are there boundaries in this world? And who appoints the Angel? Why did she accept the role? Why did she allow them to make all those military facilities before going there to destroy them? Why doesn’t she recognize them in the class although she is fighting them every day? How was she replaced? All these are never told, never shown, and the producers hoped nobody would care asking. Well, hello, I do and we clearly see that with all this randomness…

…it simply ain’t taking itself seriously. Neither did Suzumiya Haruhi’s story (which has nothing to do with this “original” work that was coincidentally made by the same people) but then again it did not prevent that one from becoming a smash hit. The whole presentation is much closer to a school comedy or an anime parody that is easy going to the mind and simply has a semi-serious premise hanging around in the font. Part of catering all tastes; remember?

It also feels like they ripped off made a tribute to many other famous works. In the second episode for example, you get a Resident Evil scene and in the third a Howl’s Moving castle reference. So imagine taking a hundred ideas from a hundred titles and using most of them as an excuse for a joke and the result is the Gintama counterpart of soft sci-fi. And I don’t know how much you liked Gintama ; I for once found it sub-par to the most part. Based on tastes, you may like the whole insanity or you may not. Plus, it also hurts to see how it’s…

Form of Development/ Pace of Plot 0/2:
…rushed as hell. With such an engrossing story and a large number of characters, it would take far more episodes to unfold properly. Thus when a new development comes along, it happens so fast that the emotional impact on you is ruined to the most part. One moment they are making jokes, the other drama falls from the sky and crashes them. One day someone disappears, the next day they go make fun at each other like it didn’t matter at all. Mystery exposition happens in long monologues, development is mostly flashbacks, and battles are resolved in seconds. But jokes? Nope, those can last for entire episodes. That alone shows how much they cared about the actual story; doesn’t it? So although the series has a developing story that changes from comedy, to drama, to mystery, to something else in a span of only 13 episodes, it happens so fast and rushed that most of the emotional binding is lost. Which in turn…

Side Stories/Extra Spices 1/2:
…ruins all the importance of side stories and throws to the side most characters. Each one of them is there for a reason but the story focuses on only a small part of them. Heck, most of the times you think there are only 5 people in the entire world. Makes things feel autistic and barren at times. One could of course argue that it was never about all the characters and only about 3 or 4, leaving the rest as minor support. Sure, ok, I agree. They are still useless as characters and exist only to make jokes

Conclusion 2/2: UNKNOWN, I LEAVE IT AT 2

TOTAL FOR STORY: 5/10



CHARACTER SECTION [ Itoshiki Nozomu meets Suzumiya Haruhi ]

Presence 2/2:
It’s a KeyAni work and thus it’s all about the looks. Nothing surprising in this “original” work. Yes, they are all attractive, cute, perky, Haruhi rip-offs , and many more. The high budget animation helps to infuse them with great liveliness and thus they feel far better than the average frozen caricature with a flapping mouth anime character out there. Of course, all these count as external or superficial attributes, which are very well done, following the pre-constructed package in the field. This does not apply very well to their…

Personality 1/2:
… personalities, which are pretty simplistic and almost uninspiring for most of them. Most of the cast consists of generic archetypes, whose "character" can be described in just 2 sentences. The hypno-guy, the karate-guy, the ninja girl, all these are characters who are just what they appear to be, plus a quirk at best. You can’t add anything to their characterization thus they may be funny but also shallow and forgettable and add nothing to the plot in the long-run.
Still, whatever they do is overall eye-catchy and backed up by their lively voices and witty dialogues. They are imposing to the most part even without actual…

Backdrop & Development 2/4:
… immersion for more than 4 of them. Most don’t have a story or development. Even for the major four, development is nothing else but characters talking to each other about their pasts through mostly rushed flashbacks. Way to go KeyAni, that was a breath of fresh Air-tv from you. You follow your own established Kanon to the letter. You may as well do a Clan Add so the tribe will thrive.
The main three are ok all things considered.

Spoiler:

Rurippe gets a fair amount of attention and development at the start, yet she slowly loses her importance later on and by the 10th episode she feels almost like any other comic relief character.
Otonashi moves the plot forward and has a very strong presence. He began as a generic high school teenager we have seen a million times already, with the amnesia routine we have seen a billion more. But he actually feel better as he goes on as he has some guts (unlike most of his brood) , and his flashbacks flesh him out nicely later on, without the revelation of his lost memory being the key to the solution of everybody’s problem, as it usually is. Other than that, yup, he is just the nice guy whom we see in hundreds of other anime. Hard to see distinctive personality on him.
And then there is also Kanade the Angel. Starts as an average cooldere but later on becomes a lot more. Her personality is excused and affects the story beyond her original role as the messenger of God.

There also some running jokes about some gimmicks that colorize some of the secondary characters’ personalities (like the glass-guy having a well-built body) but in all it feels like they don’t really move forward during the show. The few that actually do…

Catharsis 2/2:
…they get catharsis and disappear entirely. Weird huh? Shooting a million bullets at you does nothing, yet admitting your fears and hopes leads to your removal from the series. Feels almost like if you like someone, you wish he/she never comes to terms with him/herself or it’s game over. How original… Unless you have watched Haibane Renmei. Anyways, as weird as it feels having development as synonym to perm-ban, it is excused and rather gutsy to actually see characters being removed. They sure don’t resurrect with Dragonballs or any of that shounen crap. They stay dead… or better say, they come back to life as reincarnated. Or go to Heaven; I don’t know, the series never shows what comes next.
In fact, past the main trio, the only others who are good so far are the ones who got removed from the series;

Spoiler:

that is the singer girl and the cheery devil girl

for actually giving a giant hint on the purpose of the world and whose character is firmly tied with the core story (and overall thematic).

TOTAL FOR CHARACTERS: 7/10



VALUE SECTION: 5, ENJOYMENT SECTION: 7 [There are all Kagebushin no Jutsu; they go poof when you touch them]

Like most titles of its era, Angel Beats tries to cater all tastes by combining the serious with the silly, the humorous with the dramatic, the cute with the gore. It’s not a bad thing if done right as we live in an era where a series which tries to focus too much on only one genre, ends up being ignored by everyone who is not a fan of said genre. In turn, that translates to low sales, cancellation of further projects, firing staff and making people jump off windows to their untimely deaths. So the anime producers thought right while in the making. They threw in as much as they could and tried to cater as many different tastes as possible. They even went mostly for laughs, as we indeed live in cynical times and trying to pull a successful serious series is not easy at all. Not a bad move; most of the best anime of all times are multi-genre and easy-going. Sadly, most of the times instead of a full course dinner, we end up with a soup where all flavors are thrown in the blender and the end result is this gross pulp with a boring taste that drives you to the nearest sink. Unfortunately, Angel Beats is with one foot in this category.

Why, oh, why is that you may wonder? Well, for starters it’s practically a rip off of most successful commercial anime of recent years. It’s desperately trying to pass for a second Suzumiya Haruhi . Or a second Bakemonogatary . Or a second Haibane, Gantz and many more. So down to it, it is NOT an original work, despite being labeled as one for not being based on some game, manga or novel. It is also NOT an original story as most think, as the same elements have been used in the past and in far more smart and successful ways. But you know what? That is not a bad thing as nothing seems to be original anymore. It’s just that if it was made special in the way it presented its otherwise unoriginal story, then we could have another goody on the block. And we didn’t.

But why? Why is that, if it obviously used the best of what there is??? Simple; it didn’t take itself seriously. And I don’t mean the comedy aspect of the series. I mean the mental part. The aesthetics are done great and the tested formula of success is played along nicely but there is no heart in this work. It can’t stand on its own two feet. Compared to all the series it made a tribute to, it’s less interesting. It feels weaker next to Haruhi (far better moe-feast) , Bakemonogatary (far better witty comedic dialogues) , Haibane (far better atmosphere and well shown theme) , etc. Just think of how simpler those were and yet made a stronger impression on you. This series threw so many spices in the cauldron and the end result was not a super spice; it was another spice far weaker in flavor than the others. You were also forcefeeded to swallow it all in a few seconds too, not allowed to savor the taste on your tongue. And let’s face it; it didn’t use the hype monster that is the internet to establish an army of zealot fanboys/girls before it airs. They just said “KeyAni made it so it’s going to be great” . Sorry dears, it takes more than that. Not only that but it also failed to break out from its origins and become something special on its own later on. No, it remained a work of tribute to all that came before it. It didn’t manage, let’s say, to create distinguished characters like Gintama , a parody of other shounens that still managed to have memorable characters even without the parody part. Not here; they all feel like pale imitations of others. So, no, it is NOT a masterpiece or even something people will discuss in 5 years from now. It is a high budget pop-corn work that rehashes other scenarios, like the Avatar film did with Pocahontas . It may end up being entertaining and a commercial success because it’s labeled KeyAni and most are suckers for cool animation and cute girls but future generations of fans will almost certainly won’t give a damn about it. Because it has less to offer than others that were made fairly close to it.



VERDICT
I really liked all the references they made to anime and movies. It gave a meta-series parody aspect to it. The humor was generally successful. But it was so rushed, uneven and silly that shot to the head all hopes of becoming really good. Well, let’s just wish the next “original” work KeyAni makes will take these simple pointers into account.

SUGGESTION LIST
The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi
Sayonara Zetsubo
Bakemonogatari
Gantz
Haibane Renmei

[Khu]

Uhm, just one thing.

It ain't KyoAni.

lol.

It's P.A. Works.

About...haaaaaaaaaaalf of your verdict is now invalid. XD

[Haak]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Why do the students refuse to disappear? They clearly know that they will be reincarnated or go to heaven or something like that. Why do they want to stay stuck in a world full of fake people, and battling indefinitely messengers from God?

They don't actually. They explained in episode one that they don't actually know what happens to them when they disappear. The whole barnacle thing was just a joke. We know that Yuri stayed to rebel because she hates God and the other characters motivations are revealed in the prequel. or in the episodes.

And how did they find the means to make all those weapon manufacture facilities?

Basically if you remember something well enough then you can make it. Chaa (that bearded guy in episode 2) managed to make guns out of thin air in the prequel. It's most likely explained in more detail in the prequel. Unfortunately the translation has only gotten halfway there.

And what’s stopping them from leaving the school? Are there boundaries in this world?

Good question actually. Maybe it's explained in the prequel.

And who appoints the Angel? Why did she accept the role? Why did she allow them to make all those military facilities before going there to destroy them? Why doesn’t she recognize them in the class although she is fighting them every day? How was she replaced? All these are never told, never shown, and the producers hoped nobody would care asking. Well, hello, I do and we clearly see that with all this randomness…

Spoiler for future revelations:

As it was revealed, Kanade isn't actually an Angel. It's just the conclusion Yuri came to in the prequel (something us veiwers figured out easily very early on). In actual fact she's just another student that took it upon herself to help others disappear just like Otonashi. She was probably unable to discover the military facility until now and she doesn't fight them because that would probably lead to a lot of slaughter and mayhem (the SSS members carry their guns around with them) which is exactly what she wants to avoid. And she can't just go around repeatedly murdering SSS members in front of the teachers. She's supposed to be a model student so all those that follow her example disappear. Look how easily she got knocked off the Student Council President position simply because she did bad in a test.

Even if all the above wasn't true i fail to see why they would have to answer all that at the start. Those could've simply been revelations later on.

[Khu]

Yes, many of those questions are in the other media...

remember this is a MIXED MEDIA project, to get maximum enjoyment out of the whole franchise you should read/watch everything.

Although I think that the anime itself is relatively self contained.

[seiftis]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Whose who can not see TK's brilliance clearly have not watched enough anime.

I've watched enough anime surely, but still feels TK is just a meh character.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Here is what I think of the series so far. I doubt it will change my opinion when it finishes.

<snip>

Haha. Besides the error about the studio (It's P.A. Works) and stuff Haak addressed, that's a pretty funny review. I agree with a lot of it too.

[Haak]

I would have to disagree with the idea that it's trying to rip off Haruhi or Bakemonogatari. It has very little in common with Haruhi besides the fact that Yuri is somewhat similar to her but not very much. And I don't see how it's anything like Bakemonogatari. The style of comedy and the plot is completely different. And whilst I like Bakemonogatari more, in terms of pure comedy Angel Beats made me laugh a lot more and harder too.

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, you have a point there too. Though I really haven't seen enough of Bakemonogatari to know.