Nanoha Manga Discussion

[dahak]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Lutecia and Nove are acting totally opposite to their role in StrikerS, they don't share any little tiny dust of similitude to their predecessors, so, if not for their names and looks, you could say those are totally different characters.

Pity there haven't been any stories in the four years since StrikerS. You know with the Numbers opening up and Lutecia on Carnegie.

You know with Teana and Suberu fighting a Zombie apocalypse along with a throughly gungho Nove and Lutecia baking muffins for Agito. Or Wendy being clingy to Genya as he tries to tame feral cyborgs with cake. Or Nove opening up to Genya and Ginga before Suberu. Or the Nakajima's having a family outing to watch a demonstration match between Nanoha and Signum.

Or a side story showing more of what the Numbers were like during StrikerS.

With Wendy getting over enthusiastic about blowing stuff up and Tre and Cinque discussing how Sette is excessively emotionless. Perhaps even Nove and Wendi horse-playing in the bath for fan service and Nove getting embarrassed by the possibility that Otto is male.

On the other hand, these sound awfully like Strikers Sound Stages M3 and X and StrikerS manga chapters 11, 12 and 15

Even if we haven't got the implied Ginga, Zafira and Cinque fight crime together sidestory yet.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by dahak

Pity there haven't been any stories in the four years since StrikerS. You know with the Numbers opening up and Lutecia on Carnegie.

You know with Teana and Suberu fighting a Zombie apocalypse along with a thoughrly gungho Nove and Lutecia baking muffins for Agito. Or Wendy being clingy to Genya as he tries to tame feral cyborgs with cake. Or Nove opening up to Genya and Ginga before Suberu. Or the Nakajima's having a family outing to watch a demonstration match between Nanoha and Signum.

Or a side story showing more of what the Numbers were like during StrikerS.

With Wendy getting over enthusiastic about blowing stuff up and Tre and Cinque discussing how Sette is excessively emotionless. Perhaps even Nove and Wendi horse-playing in the bath for fan service and Nove getting embarrassed by the possibility that Otto is male.

On the other hand, these sound awfully like Strikers Sound Stages M3 and X and StrikerS manga chapters 11, 12 and 15

Even if we haven't got the implied Ginga, Zafira and Cinque fight crime together sidestory yet.

where, when and which sound stage?

[prescience]

Like dahak said, Sound Stage M3 and Sound Stage X. And some of the StrikerS manga chapters. SSX should be up on YouTube courtesy of AtomicoX and Nagumo, and the StrikerS manga should be floating around various manga sites.

[itanshi1]

That's SSX, where Ixpelia was introduced and where Runessa came from

[Random Wanderer]

Must respond to this...

Nove was NOT cold blooded in StrikerS, Rick.

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

I suggest you go and see episode 17 from StrikerS again.

Would that be the part where she's yelling in HOT BLOODED rage every time she attacks? Where she yells in angry frustration when the forwards escape? When she panics at the idea of Cinque being left behind to face Subaru? How about an episode later where she's vowing violent revenge on the girl who dared hurt Cinque so much?

I think you may need to look up "cold blooded" because I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Sheba]

The whole cross media thing makes me miss the 1980s-1990s where there would not have no problem about having over 100 episodes shounen and shoujo series. Yeah, in other times, things like SSX would have been animated, the gap between A's and StrikerS might have been animated, and perhaps we would have Nanoha the Highschool Days filler arc. BUT we would have seen the characters developping!

[dahak]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

I suggest you go and see episode 17 from StrikerS again.

In which she was the most emotional of the Numbers. Ill disciplined combat chatter and displays of anger.

Unlike Cinque, Otto, Deed, Tre and Sette who are cool, calm and professional.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

where, when and which sound stage?

Mid Childa, about a year before Vivid in SSX.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

Personally, I was astonished by Lulu's change (even thought it was Megane for a few pages ), but I had no trouble accepting that this was a possible way for her to develop. I've seen a few emotionally repressed people in my life who bloomed to the point where you could barely recognize them when a person who had a knack for making them happy was around for long enough. If for Lutecia, such person was her mother, I thought, that would explain it. I guess it just correlated with my personal experiences, so I thought this change was plausible.

Hey, I like the new Lutecia too, and I do understand that it's possible for a girl to change in a short time, but storywise, that they didn't show the actual development and went for a complete 180 could have been done better. Showing a decent 90 degree in a soundstage track or two would have done.

[prescience]

Well, to be fair, they did show her lightened up a little in SSX. But I agree that it would have been nice to see more development.

[fukarming]

Am I the only person who like Vivid more than Force?

Vivid goes back to the magical girl route and the latest character showed that it is getting into the sports genre. Force focus on the political, strategical and tactical aspects of the nanoha franchise.

To me I dislike StrikerS. My personal philosophy is that is if you suck at something, don't do it. StrikerS shows the creator are relatively weak in terms of political/ strategical/ tactical elements. Force seems to be a continuance of StrikerS and I don't see any sign of improvement

Vivid, by focusing on Vivio and the sports aspects of magical battle, bypass one of the major barrier in the nanoha franchise - the power level. Because Vivio is not in life or death danger, it is OK Nanoha and Fate do not come out and blast everything. In contrast, Force is trying to bypass the energy level through the use of divider. They already fail it in StrikerS (AMF)

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Am I the only person who like Vivid more than Force?

Oh, believe me, you're not alone...

I like the appñroach ViVid does on the "macial" roots of the franchise, there are fun characters, a misterios Dark Magical Girl with an equally misterious past, and good action scenes, perhaps my only complain is that i find it maybe too much entusiasm on the fanservice(wich greatly surpasses every other installment of the franchise) and the slow pace of the story, other than that i find it very enjjoyable.

About FORCE i find interesting the new designs and, as much as i hate certain events, i finally accepted the show for what it has become(mecha/sci-fi) and waiting for things according to that instead of expecting what i am accustomed before. This manga has showed the intention of introducing new conventions to the franchise and experiment with plot devices never used before(or at least never used that deep) so i think that the right mindset to read FORCE is to don't think much on the past and expect the unexpectable.

On a side note, i like StrikerS, i mean A's will always be my favourite but even with it's flaws i find StrikerS a good season that introduces some intersting characters(Subaru, Cinque, Agito, Zest and Nove are my favourites) and FORCE go deeper into the route. I don't like that they're separated the two main aspects of the franchise because i think their blending is that was what make the charm, but again the experiment is done and on the course so i will follow ViVid for to watch good magical battles and have fun and read FORCE to follow the developement of Tsuzuki in terms of technology and battle strategy(at least would be interesting to watch how he explains each weapon, gadget adn phenomenon now that he apparently want to go more specific on details).

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by fukarming

Am I the only person who like Vivid more than Force?

Vivid goes back to the magical girl route and the latest character showed that it is getting into the sports genre. Force focus on the political, strategical and tactical aspects of the nanoha franchise.

To me I dislike StrikerS. My personal philosophy is that is if you suck at something, don't do it. StrikerS shows the creator are relatively weak in terms of political/ strategical/ tactical elements. Force seems to be a continuance of StrikerS and I don't see any sign of improvement

Vivid, by focusing on Vivio and the sports aspects of magical battle, bypass one of the major barrier in the nanoha franchise - the power level. Because Vivio is not in life or death danger, it is OK Nanoha and Fate do not come out and blast everything. In contrast, Force is trying to bypass the energy level through the use of divider. They already fail it in StrikerS (AMF)

I don't hate Vivid, and indeed, it has some redeeming qualities. But you should be aware that Nanoha and Fate have limiters on them, so power level is playing a role there. :P

I have to disagree with you about StrikerS being weak in terms of political machinations. That Jail was used as a way to get around the Bureau's rules, that he employed tactics and gained some victories over more powerful forces, showcases a good deal of planning. With Force, we're still left guessing about the larger ramifications; this is good. If you can't predict where the story is going, then it's a good plot. It means you have to keep watching.

Vivid is predictable and simplistic, but that isn't a bad thing, either. Pretty much, I like all the Nanoha seasons and stories for various reasons; they all have good points. Heh, looking at this thread lately, I have to wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way, or whether I have to hate something to be cool. ;p

[Xellos-_^]

being wondering a bit, why did lulu get exile to a penal colony? A very comfortable place and her mother is with her but still. Isn't the TSAB's motto, "grab them while they are young" and "beat them and recruit them"?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Okay, apparently my preview review was deleted because it was a bit to harsh for some sensible feelings here, so I'll edit my previous post and I'll post it according the rules.

Reposting with corrections:

... right, I think I've been "nice" enough with his crappy, pseudo lolikon-hentai manga so called 'Vivid'. This is the last time I read this, last time I waste my saliva talking about it and last time I waste 1 hour of my life reading 3 poor chapters filled with a cliched lame fight, absurd dialogues and the same old fanservice packaged stuff (because fanservice is not only echii, it's also seeing the same old 'signature' attacks doing the exactly same stupid thing they did on the previous presentations) Vivid is truly a 2nd hand manga that seeks only to force out of us tears of fake joy seeing the same old thing that eventually makes you sick and throw up all that wasted stuff that these dudes so called professional scriptwriters and artists can't improve or try something different. Vivid is a BAD manga, no, not bad, terrible, it's a blasphemy in the world of comic and every single printed chapter of it should be burned along with the people who made it.

I've never seen such lame and plane script that shows 4 chapters of the same without progressing any tiny little thing with the main story (if we can say this cheeped story can have a main argument). Seriously, 4 chapters for a ridiculous mock battle that gets interrupted by absurd "logical" explanations of the attacks and events that don't explain a thing and only interrupt the visual narrative to fill us with senseless explanations. Add the daily (and kind of obligatory) echii stuff that only puts poor Fate into a very low pit of hentai-wanna be character and degrades her person to only think on breasts and butt when hearing her name. This manga should had never be done, in fact, they should stop doing it, the artist & scriptwriter should be fired and Nanoha Vivid should be put in a Vault of forgotten or turned into what it should had been since the beginning, a hentai-lolikon manga for those who only want to see breasts and lolis.

I'm afraid to say but Nanoha Vivid is nothing but a stupid, crappy, retarded, absurd, idiotic, lame, pathetic, rotten, putrefactive, heretic, cheap, cliched and a list of 45 more adjectives that I cannot add or my post would be deleted again, all these the proper adjectives that should be used when referring to this manga in any blog, post or thread ever mad in existence of time and space.

In Vivid's defense, Rick, I think the manga abandoned the idea of having a serious plot awhile back (and if they still have one, they're taking their sweet time developing it). It's not supposed to be a manga with a deep, moving story. It's a fun little OVA series that focuses on Vivio and her own way of growing up compared to Nanoha, and gives the spotlight to some characters who might not have as much of a role in Force.

Granted, I'm not a major fan of Vivid either, but it's good for what it does: being light and fluffy, and a rather easy, relaxing read. There's really no reason to get so upset about it. And hey, if it turns out the manga has a plot, I'll be interested to see it developed. Until then, I have to admit, I'm enjoying the rather easy ride through the series.

[Tiresias]

Only six days of vacation and I miss more than ten pages already? oh dear...

What makes me chuckles about the "Vivid is to slice-of-life!" sentiment is that the previous scanlator dropped it because the fighting part makes it not too slice-of-life anymore(well, slice of yuri life to be exact). You just can't please everyone, can you?

Well as long as there's a prospect of having Heidi-chan kick Vivio's ass in full glory, new device and all, I'm sold!

PS: Who's the new scanlator?

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

being wondering a bit, why did lulu get exile to a penal colony? A very comfortable place and her mother is with her but still. Isn't the TSAB's motto, "grab them while they are young" and "beat them and recruit them"?

Maybe they're letting the mother handle the basic training? She is with the TSAB, right?

[Evil Rick]

Looks like everyone is either misunderstanding me or didn't read my whole review, I don't think Vivid it's bad because it lacks a deep story or action scenes more intense, nah, that's just matter of preferences, I think it's bad because every damn chapter they repeat the same thing and don't progress the story in any sense (because even a lighten, fluffy story needs a progress). Every chapter you'll see the half-naked lolis, every chapter will be filled of Ein's toughs of being stronger, every chapter will be filled with the same mock battles, every chapter will be filled with loooong dialogues of attacks explanations. I mean, seriously, 4 chapters for 1 single mock battle that ends in a most ridiculous draw?

To resume, Vivid it's bad because it's repetitive, because it's cliched and because is a mere fanservice manga.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

To resume, Vivid it's bad because it's repetitive, because it's cliched and because is a mere fanservice manga.

And really, what's so bad about that? It's not unusual for a manga to be repetitive, cliche, or for a manga to focus quite a bit on the fanservice. We knew after several chapters that Vivid was probably going to depend on the same formula again and again. I really don't see anything wrong with it.

On Ein being stronger, that's hardly a fair claim. Vivio certainly hasn't beaten her yet, but as of this chapter she managed to knock her out before being taken down. So Vivio's definitely getting strong enough to match Ein.

[itanshi1]

It was still one of the best fights in all of Nanoha and of course its a draw. I've oft said it's just touch football, relax.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Looks like everyone is either misunderstanding me or didn't read my whole review, I don't think Vivid it's bad because it lacks a deep story or action scenes more intense, nah, that's just matter of preferences, I think it's bad because every damn chapter they repeat the same thing and don't progress the story in any sense (because even a lighten, fluffy story needs a progress). Every chapter you'll see the half-naked lolis, every chapter will be filled of Ein's toughs of being stronger, every chapter will be filled with the same mock battles, every chapter will be filled with loooong dialogues of attacks explanations. I mean, seriously, 4 chapters for 1 single mock battle that ends in a most ridiculous draw?

To resume, Vivid it's bad because it's repetitive, because it's cliched and because is a mere fanservice manga.

And everyone one of Rick's posts will be filled with hate and disdain for Vivid...

You're right! This stuff is repeating and making the readers nauseous!

Edit: Seriously, dude, Vivid isn't repeating. It's okay to not like it, but if you're trying to justify it, your rationale isn't working. I don't see any long explanations of attacks, and nothing has repeated so far. Vivid has valid things you could dislike it for, but most of your reasons ain't it.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

What makes me chuckles about the "Vivid is to slice-of-life!" sentiment is that the previous scanlator dropped it because the fighting part makes it not too slice-of-life anymore

It's just slices of some rather abnormal lives (by our standards). As long as it's still just their day-to-day lives, I think it qualifies.

On a mostly random note, I find myself wanting to see Einhart's parents (assuming they exist...). I'm curious as to how one raises a daughter who has real memories of life as (male!) royalty in the middle of a war some hundreds of years ago, and all the pain that comes with that.

I don't see any long explanations of attacks

I believe that is referring to things like Megane's explanation of the move the translator called "Unchain Knuckle" which Einhart used to break out of Nanoha's bind. The combat commentary, in essence. However, that is part of ANY mock (or sometimes not-mock) battle where there are outside observers. Tournament arcs and manga are FULL of that, and anyone who's read them should be used to it and won't give it a second thought.