2006-11-03, 20:19 | Link #121 | |
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Evading as long as possible...is not a viable long term solution. If Light waits it out, L may be brought off the case...but if he's gonna do that, Light might as well and pray for a better world instead of him trying to create one himself. Light wants to take things into his own hands and not rely on fate and luck.. Anyways ignoring L will be difficult. If L prevents Kira from knowing the names of criminals, how else is Kira gonna continue doing what he's doing? Besides, if Kira ignores L, L may take longer to find Kira, but eventually he will. Building his world is gonna take time, and Kira is thinking of creating a "better" world now and not sometime in the future. |
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2006-11-03, 20:35 | Link #123 | |||||
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2006-11-03, 21:23 | Link #124 | ||
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If you claim that euthanasia is morally wrong in the areas where it is illegal, but morally right where it is legal, then that is a moral system called legalism. Since it's possible for laws to be immoral, I don't think that legalism is a valid moral system. Quote:
The jury system has two moral advantages over Light: authority and due process. Society gives juries the authority to weigh the guilt and innocence of suspected criminals. Light has no such authority: he has only power. It would be no different if he had an assault rifle and an invisibility cloak. Why would anyone want to place their trust into his judgments? The jury system is also relatively fair: they study all the aspects of a case before pronouncing a verdict. Also, the more severe the case, the more it is the onus of the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Even if convicted, a criminal is often still given chances to prove his innocence. This system exists to cut down on the number of people punished unjustly. There are no checks on Light. He simply punishes whomever he feels is guilty. He doesn't even take the time to make certain that those he kills deserves it (this is impossible to do in just 5 days). And the punishment is always the same - death. By no measure of the imagination can this be considered fair. Again, Light is little more than a serial killer who preyed upon the equivalent of a prison population. This does nothing to mitigate the severity of his crimes.
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2006-11-03, 22:06 | Link #125 | ||||||
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2006-11-03, 22:17 | Link #126 | |||
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Spoiler for manga:
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2006-11-03, 22:46 | Link #127 | |
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For people who are going to continue posting Raito doesnt have the "Right" to do this or that, Raito breaks the "LAW", he killed "innocent" people such as FBi agents, something call "unfair" exist in the "Kira world" etc........
I am not going to repost or requote again. For people who are going to think hard and expose more Raito's mistake go ahead. LOL I understand people are demanding perfection . Something like Raito got provoked and kill the Fake L, so L can narrow down the location etc.... Even Raito himself know he made a mistake, Spoiler for manga:
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And for people like 4Tran, using ur "moral" or the NOwaday Current world "moral" "Law" to judge Yagami Raito. Like I said this is a REVOLUTION. 4Tran, Raito is not killing the people HE think is guilty Quote:
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2006-11-03, 23:55 | Link #128 | ||||
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Euthanasia is completely different from what Light does. Euthanasia is the ultimate expression of self-determination while Light doesn't give a damn about what his victims want. Murder is the illegal act of taking away someone's right to live - this is essentially what Light does. Euthanasia is quite the opposite: it is the act of allowing a patient to choose his manner and timing of death. Quote:
The one gives you a trial and then sentences you. The other simply offers a summary execution. While they may seem to serve similar ends, the latter has no basis in morality. In general, killing is murder. There are a few caveats, and euthanasia and capital punishment meet the conditions of qualifying; the way Light kills falls far short. Quote:
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2006-11-04, 00:22 | Link #129 | |
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When did i say u shouldn't do that -_-?? I was just pointing out the fact.
Not he feels, but EVERYONE in the world think, so ur "intent" should go to everyone in the world. He erased "Major Criminals" May be u skipped this part Quote:
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2006-11-04, 00:45 | Link #130 | ||
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In addition, there's no indication that those people were guilty of anything outside of Light's words. At best, this is shaky justification; at worst, it's nothing more than wanton slaughter. Even if they were, murder of a "major criminal" is no better than murdering someone like you. The question isn't whether Light is "perfect", it's how much of a monster he is. Quote:
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2006-11-04, 00:58 | Link #131 |
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Ok he kill "major criminals" Why they are "major criminals"? Because they were judge by the jury system u mentioned, and that is why they are "major criminals".
Now return to the penalty problems, and the reason u are saying he is a murderer is probably because what have people mentioned before, he doesnt have the "right". |
2006-11-04, 01:07 | Link #132 | ||
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I'm sort of curious; why do you think that Light has the right to kill people?
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2006-11-04 at 01:31. Reason: Forgot the word "deliberately". |
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2006-11-04, 01:23 | Link #133 | ||||
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Last edited by ThisIsDream; 2006-11-04 at 01:35. |
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2006-11-04, 01:40 | Link #134 | ||
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Whether or not the current justice systems are perfect has no bearing on Light's actions. Quote:
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2006-11-04, 03:08 | Link #135 | ||||
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OK, so u think some crimes really deserve to die. (penalty problem) What do u mean by no proof ? Those criminals were judge by the current jury system. And that is why they are criminals in jail and have criminals records. Those criminals wasnt judge by Light to put them in jail. So it will come down to the penalty problems. Quote:
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For people who gonna compare Countries Vs Countries, Nations Vs Nations etc.. to Yagami Raito, it is a little bit different. European taking other people lands, colonized areas, destroying other nationals' cultures, Hitler eliminating Jews, White people slaving different skin's colour people, a country invading another country for own benefits, Communist Vs Capitalism, Liberalism VS Conservative etc......... Compare to Yagami Raito eliminating "Criminals" As you can see the differences - First are a group of people (I am right) VS a group of people (I am right) - Second are "Criminals" which are Everyone (or most ppl? Some may think Criminals are good who knows) in the world recognize as "Criminals" - People who are doing Bad, evil things. It is really hard and rare for Everyone to accept on one thing or come up with a same statement. However, u can say is majority judge minority. Quote:
There are people(police) who kill criminals from harming innocent. (short term) Criminals after sitting in the jail and go out harming innocent again. (long term) No one can guarantee those criminals will go harm people again or not for the 2nd or more times. Light's way is just more effective and frighten, which preventing people from committing crimes for the first time. People will be more aware of their attitude and actions. There are people demanding penalty stronger to prevent more people committing crimes. Last edited by ThisIsDream; 2006-11-04 at 03:47. |
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2006-11-04, 04:26 | Link #136 | |
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Alternately you could define the difference in another way. (This is complementary to the above paragraph, not contradictory.) Murder is a selfish act while lawful execution is a selfless act. It seems a nice tag-line, but perhaps that's way too simplistic.
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2006-11-04, 06:53 | Link #137 | ||
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No offense, but it's getting obvious your understanding of english is far from perfect, which makes it hard to have a proper discussion because you regularly misunderstand what is being said. In this case, it was never said the current system is perfect, because no system is perfect. The point was that discussing the current justice systems is irrelevant to discussing Light's actions. |
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2006-11-04, 07:29 | Link #138 |
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To be completely honest, I hardly found Light any subject to moral ambiguity at all. I don't know about anyone else, but it's extremely obvious half his actions are driven solely by his egoistic nature and his need to prove that his penis is bigger than L's, or whoever is challenging him in a direct manner.
First off, there's no proof that judging by law, all of the criminals Light killed deserve murder. Clearly there's even some who's not in prison, but just because a criminal does a crime and is sentenced to decades, that is because the law deems a criminal whether that person deserves inprisonment, death or any other punishment as deemed by law. Each nation has their own appliance of how they treat criminals as judged by their moral laws and unless someone tells me Light is murdering while taking into account technicalities of criminal and human rights, then Light's acts are far from even gauging the moral line. The weakness of the justice system is hardly relevant. Every society system written by humans are undoubtedly flawed, be it government bodies to justice systems. Our world is far from perfect, but that doesn't give Light the right to murder people. He has the power to, but this hardly equates to morality. Being humans, there are always time when people wished "criminal A" would just die, etc etc etc, but there's a large gap of right, human ethicalism, and other factors between actually thinking and doing it. Light crossed that gap.
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2006-11-04, 07:39 | Link #139 |
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Some more musings on Light... I forgot how he phrased his original intentions but ridding the world of evil is essentially a good goal. However, his desire to rule the world as a malevolent god is already a huge indication that he's not as righteous as he likes to think. He's essentially a tyrant acting on his own, eventhough he does gain supporters that sympathize with his actions. However, he has already crossed the line by killing off law enforcers to protect his own desire, and from there I imagine it can only get worse. Where does it end? It doesn't seem unlikely that he might start killing off people that commited light crimes at some point, and eventually even people that speak out against him openly, or other petty reasons. Ofcourse in his own mind, he does this to protect his "justice" but he's really protecting his own perverse desire to play god and will truely have become the evil dictator. Might makes right, as they say, but doesn't necessarily make righteous. And history is written by the victors, but is always biased.
Last edited by Trax; 2006-11-04 at 07:54. |
2006-11-04, 09:51 | Link #140 | |||||
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Can you address the actual point? Intent is irrelevant to morality, so you can't use it as an excuse for committing murder. Let me put it in a different context. Let's say that you are caught littering. This is obviously a (minor) crime. The police are afraid that you will commit more crimes in the future. Would they then be justified in executing you?
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