Regios - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Do they or Leerin have any idea about what to do or what she's capable of?

Let’s see, if Nina had told her secret, when Leerin enters picture, what’s with all of you? Nina is screwed, then maybe I could help her. But she didn’t, Hollow Nina surfaces.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Other? The 'original' would be more correct. In any case, I already made my comment on the anime.

Same could be said as Missing Mail, Claymore, Mai Hime, Evangelion, FMAs, Tsukihime series, Fate Stay Night, where they have their own respective spinoffs to stand in their own universe. So we should concentrate on the anime personifications alone.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

I'd say that anyone here would keep such a secret if the outcome could be veggie state. It's not like she doesn't care about others' worries, see: apologizing to them and Felli sincerely.

Not if they trust their teammate enough and thinking the possible remedies. For Nina it’s ‘caring for them’, for the team it’s ‘I’m worried about her’.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

But Felli couldn't care less about the team or their worries, according to her portrayal in the anime. See:

- Her dialogue with Layfon - How can you trust her?!!
- Her comment after killing a trash bin - Why is he so happy because of her return?!!

So yeah, if you delve into the anime portrayal, Felli is on the borderline of being a villain.

And what I stated previously, her ‘love/jealousy’ is one thing, but as a team member her demands to know what had happened because she was missing were well-placed and understandable.

[azarhal]

Actually, Layfon is the real damsel in distress using TrueKigth definition.

He's the one who cause the most worries to his friends and would-be-lovers (Leerin, Nina, Fellis, Mei, etc.) and he doesn't stop getting big injuries along the way too.

Personnaly, using my definition of damsel in distress, only Mei can be considered members of that select club. Fellis sometimes seem to want to stay in it too, but she have shown that she can take care of herself want nobody is looking.

By the way, why do people have the impression that Goat-Chan is going to be removed from Nina? Or that she actually need help to take care of it?

Maybe Goat-Chan want to stay with Nina forever.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Actually, Layfon is the real damsel in distress using TrueKigth definition.

He's the one who cause the most worries to his friends and would-be-lovers (Leerin, Nina, Fellis, Mei, etc.) and he doesn't stop getting big injuries along the way too.

Personnaly, using my definition of damsel in distress, only Mei can be considered members of that select club. Fellis sometimes seem to want to stay in it too, but she have shown that she can take care of herself want nobody is looking.

By the way, why do people have the impression that Goat-Chan is going to be removed from Nina? Or that she actually need help to take care of it?

Maybe Goat-Chan want to stay with Nina forever.

If it'll keep Nina away from Layfon, she can have Goat-chan.

[Ultramarinus]

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

Let’s see, if Nina had told her secret, when Leerin enters picture, what’s with all of you? Nina is screwed, then maybe I could help her. But she didn’t, Hollow Nina surfaces.

Leerin already saw the haikizoku but she has no idea whatsoever to do with it. Saya made her pray once and based on this ep, she seems to be unaware of a certain method to calm it down. In fact, it can be said that she has no idea whatsoever about what the goat is. She acted clueless about these matters throughout the whole series, even when she got attacked by MF-infested blackmailer man. So it's not like she can offer anything. Layfon knew what the goat was, so he put the pieces together when she told him.

Same could be said as Missing Mail, Claymore, Mai Hime, Evangelion, FMAs, Tsukihime series, Fate Stay Night, where they have their own respective spinoffs to stand in their own universe. So we should concentrate on the anime personifications alone.

I already did.

Not if they trust their teammate enough and thinking the possible remedies. For Nina it’s ‘caring for them’, for the team it’s ‘I’m worried about her’.

It's not that Nina doesn't trust them but you know the saying that goes: The walls have ears. She knows that certain high powers want to claim it for themselves, mercenary company being hired for that reason suggests the intrigue runs deep. The team worries about her, well, life is tough. It's not like she gets a kick out of it, right?

And what I stated previously, her ‘love/jealousy’ is one thing, but as a team member her demands to know what had happened because she was missing were well-placed and understandable.

Her love/jealousy is the SOLE and ONLY reason she presses the matter further. Up until now, she either:

- Underperformed when left to her sense of duty
- Did enough just to look good to Layfon
- Pushed herself to impress/save Layfon

So yeah, her sole motivation can be read like a book. For all she cares, she'd leave whole city and her squad to their deaths if it meant living a carefree life alone with Layfon. This literally happened in earlier episodes. So much for being a 'team member', she scolded them for their willing to trust her and disrespected her seniors. Incapable of any apologizing throughout the series no matter how faulty she gets, inconsiderate about others' feelings, including 'her preciousss'. (quite a bit of examples littered here and there)

To be honest, I don't think that it can be called love in the true meaning of the word. Infatuation would suit it better, like how children wants to get a toy no matter what and then get bored fast after they finally have it.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

... You know... Both Ultramarinus and TrueKnight really needs their venting thread here sometimes I love seeing their battl-- Errr... I mean, exchange of ideas. It gave so much inspiration <3

I swear I'm not shipping them! Honest! D:

/me runs away from accusing eyes

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Leerin already saw the haikizoku but she has no idea whatsoever to do with it. Saya made her pray once and based on this ep, she seems to be unaware of a certain method to calm it down. In fact, it can be said that she has no idea whatsoever about what the goat is. She acted clueless about these matters throughout the whole series, even when she got attacked by MF-infested blackmailer man. So it's not like she can offer anything. Layfon knew what the goat was, so he put the pieces together when she told him.

No, the bird told her that if she pray it could help to calm the Haikizoku down, which she did, and Nina was saved. You’re downplaying her ability and persona.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

It's not that Nina doesn't trust them but you know the saying that goes: The walls have ears. She knows that certain high powers want to claim it for themselves, mercenary company being hired for that reason suggests the intrigue runs deep. The team worries about her, well, life is tough. It's not like she gets a kick out of it, right?

She didn’t tell them and that’s fact. Her team mate got worried sick because of her.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Her love/jealousy is the SOLE and ONLY reason she presses the matter further. Up until now, she either:

- Underperformed when left to her sense of duty
- Did enough just to look good to Layfon
- Pushed herself to impress/save Layfon

So yeah, her sole motivation can be read like a book. For all she cares, she'd leave whole city and her squad to their deaths if it meant living a carefree life alone with Layfon. This literally happened in earlier episodes. So much for being a 'team member', she scolded them for their willing to trust her and disrespected her seniors. Incapable of any apologizing throughout the series no matter how faulty she gets, inconsiderate about others' feelings, including 'her preciousss'. (quite a bit of examples littered here and there)

To be honest, I don't think that it can be called love in the true meaning of the word. Infatuation would suit it better, like how children wants to get a toy no matter what and then get bored fast after they finally have it.

Agreed on the love part, disagree on her duty, here are what she did as I posted previously….long ago >_>

- Helped Layfon detected the mother FM in ep 5 where other squads or ppl couldn’t do crap.
- Saved the girl trio at ep 4.
- Giving surveillance on the bugs in ep 7 from miles away, making the FM;s noticing the bait aka Nina, exhausting herself in the process;
- Giving support in ep 8 and until 10 to the squad.
- Giving support and inform the squad about the Haikizoku in ep 14;
- Giving support in ep 16 to the squad without Layfon;
- Recording the battlefield in ep 17;
- Giving surveillance to Layfon at ep 18; and finally
- Located Zuellni and Nina in ep 19;

Her ‘motivation’ to do so is indeed mostly because of Layfon, nevertheless her feats have helped thousands of lives. She had done her duty properly as a soldier.

Originally Posted by azarhal

He's the one who cause the most worries to his friends and would-be-lovers (Leerin, Nina, Fellis, Mei, etc.) and he doesn't stop getting big injuries along the way too.

With all due respect, if you look at another perspective Layfon’s damsel in distress comes after he had beaten hordes of Fms, saving thousands of lives and friends alike.

[Ultramarinus]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

... You know... Both Ultramarinus and TrueKnight really needs their venting thread here sometimes I love seeing their battl-- Errr... I mean, exchange of ideas. It gave so much inspiration <3

I swear I'm not shipping them! Honest! D:

/me runs away from accusing eyes

That sounded something like Ogiue's virtual pairings from Genshiken.

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

No, the bird told her that if she pray it could help to calm the Haikizoku down, which she did, and Nina was saved. You’re downplaying her ability and persona.

So, um, why didn't she do or say anything to Nina on this ep then?

She didn’t tell them and that’s fact. Her team mate got worried sick because of her.

Uh, you seem to be avoiding the veggie state part. You know, that physical situation that's worse than death? Not to mention you're exaggerating the worrying part. They were worried. Nina asks for their trust, they accept. From that point onwards, nobody except Felli brings the matter forward.

Agreed on the love part, disagree on her duty, here are what she did as I posted previously….long ago >_>

Her ‘motivation’ to do so is indeed mostly because of Layfon, nevertheless her feats have helped thousands of lives. She had done her duty properly as a soldier.

She happened to do her duty 'barely' and just because it served her self-interest on claiming her preciousss, the one ring.. I mean, Layfon. She'd turn a blind eye to all those people dying if that's what would take her to get him. So yeah, motivation defines people ultimately, not their achievements. See example: Savaris killing FM's saves tons of people as well but he doesn't care one bit about them. Is he doing it out of his sense of duty? Quite doubtful.

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

So, um, why didn't she do or say anything to Nina on this ep then?

Because Nina hid the fact it’s dangerous and she couldn’t control it so she thought its fine and she wouldn’t know? Until Layfon finally snapped her out.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Uh, you seem to be avoiding the veggie state part. You know, that physical situation that's worse than death? Not to mention you're exaggerating the worrying part. They were worried. Nina asks for their trust, they accept. From that point onwards, nobody except Felli brings the matter forward

Well combined with the above point, the veggie part could’ve been prevented.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

She happened to do her duty 'barely' and just because it served her self-interest on claiming her preciousss, the one ring. I mean, Layfon. She'd turn a blind eye to all those people dying if that's what would take her to get him. So yeah, motivation defines people ultimately, not their achievements. See example: Savaris killing FM's saves tons of people as well but he doesn't care one bit about them. Is he doing it out of his sense of duty? Quite doubtful.

Did she so far show she’d turn a blind eye if people were dying? Well maybe in ep 5, but after ep 7 I don’t see it at all, from what shown so far, what she did saved thousands of lives, she obeyed her orders up from ep 7 onwards. What intention that defines Felli as ‘evil’ so far? Did she like to torture people? No. And regardless her motives, she had saved thousands. Compared to Nina who from ep 10 onwards did nothing but losing and worrying her squad. As for Savaris well, he saved thousands, but he likes to torture people, which we did saw.

[cheesie]

Now where have we read all this before? Perhaps it's wise just to agree to disagree. I can't say pitting the girls against each other makes for a very inspiring discussion, but if you want to talk it out further, why not move to the respective character threads at least, and let the episode thread get back on track?

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Now where have we read all this before? Perhaps it's wise just to agree to disagree. I can't say this makes for a very inspiring discussion, but if you want to talk it out, why not move to another thread at least, and let the episode thread get back on track?

Well I admit my third paragraph may strand off a bit, however the first and second statements are somewhat close to touch the merit of the current episode, where we saw the result of Nina’s possession, and her teammates finding out her secret. Though my arguments are more close to the ‘result’ and ‘impact’ of her secrecy.

[Ultramarinus]

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

Because Nina hid the fact it’s dangerous and she couldn’t control it so she thought its fine and she wouldn’t know? Until Layfon finally snapped her out.

Leerin herself saw that goat and how badly it affected Nina, she herself says she was worried after how Nina disappeared that suddenly. What you're saying further proves her lack of knowledge about the matter.

Well combined with the above point, the veggie part could’ve been prevented.

You're making one big presumption here. Leerin knows that a goat possessed Nina, yet does nothing about it and moreover, she doesn't even show the least bit of interest in the matter even though she gets along well with Nina and cares for her. Nothing would be prevented, it's not like she was going to extract the goat without harming her before a third party intervenes forcefully.

Did she so far show she’d turn a blind eye if people were dying? Well maybe in ep 5, but after ep 7 I don’t see it at all, from what shown so far, what she did saved thousands of lives, she obeyed her orders up from ep 7 onwards. What intention that defines Felli as ‘evil’ so far? Did she like to torture people? No. And regardless her motives, she had saved thousands. Compared to Nina who from ep 10 onwards did nothing but losing and worrying her squad. As for Savaris well, he saved thousands, but he likes to torture people, which we did saw.

How many times would she need to repeat ep 5's deed to prove her selfishness to you? She goes against orders whenever Layfon is concerned, up till this ep. She didn't do what she did to save people. And it's not like she single-handedly saved people as well, everyone did what they could do.

I didn't say that she's evil but her motivations and actions are keeping her on the borderline of being a villain. A villain isn't necessarily evil as well, many turn out that way just because they did what's required of their self-interest. Say, if the queen would say to her: "I'll have Layfon matched with you and you two will live in a palace all your life, just don't oppose me destroying Czellni", how would she reply? Can you tell me that she'd refuse for sure?

As for Nina, she led the squad and fought to the best of her abilities, (which includes going out there and putting your life on the line, not playing 'walkie talkie' safe back up there) trying to improve herself at every opportunity. She's not content with just doing her part, she goes beyond the line of duty at every opportunity, without ulterior motives. Just show me another person except her that fought to the brink of death to protect the city and its people. Arguably only Layfon, then again he always outclassed the opposition.

Originally Posted by cheesie

Now where have we read all this before? Perhaps it's wise just to agree to disagree. I can't say pitting the girls against each other makes for a very inspiring discussion, but if you want to talk it out further, why not move to the respective character threads at least, and let the episode thread get back on track?

Yeah, true enough as it's already devolving into that. It's he that started this though!

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Leerin herself saw that goat and how badly it affected Nina, she herself says she was worried after how Nina disappeared that suddenly. What you're saying further proves her lack of knowledge about the matter.

You forgot that the bird had told her the remedies, pray for Saya to appear. You think she won’t do the same when the same accident occur? I think she will.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

You're making one big presumption here. Leerin knows that a goat possessed Nina, yet does nothing about it and moreover, she doesn't even show the least bit of interest in the matter even though she gets along well with Nina and cares for her. Nothing would be prevented, it's not like she was going to extract the goat without harming her before a third party intervenes forcefully.

She did show interest when he talked to Layfon, she knew what happens in Myath but because Nina kept quite she thought everything was fine. But facts stated otherwise. All because of Nina hiding her secret.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

How many times would she need to repeat ep 5's deed to prove her selfishness to you? She goes against orders whenever Layfon is concerned, up till this ep. She didn't do what she did to save people. And it's not like she single-handedly saved people as well, everyone did what they could do.

Before ep 7 everyone the squad are bums. Nina still being emo, Sharnid goofing around, and Felli being selfish. Ep 7 is the turning point of the 17th. She didn’t singlehandedly save the town in ep 5, it’s both her and Layfon who did the job.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

I didn't say that she's evil but her motivations and actions are keeping her on the borderline of being a villain. A villain isn't necessarily evil as well, many turn out that way just because they did what's required of their self-interest. Say, if the queen would say to her: "I'll have Layfon matched with you and you two will live in a palace all your life, just don't oppose me destroying Czellni", how would she reply? Can you tell me that she'd refuse for sure?


As for Nina, she led the squad and fought to the best of her abilities, (which includes going out there and putting your life on the line, not playing 'walkie talkie' safe back up there) trying to improve herself at every opportunity. She's not content with just doing her part, she goes beyond the line of duty at every opportunity, without ulterior motives.

You say her ‘actions’, then I say Felli did her job properly as a soldier from ep 7 onwards, saving people. And seriously, Nina’s feat is pale compared to Felli’s with the list I’ve posted prior. You can have a good intention, but if you don’t have the ability, all you have for yourself is being a burden to others. Such as Nina, making others worried sick, and even she realized she indeed suck in controlling the goat.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

It's he that started this though!

I'm only expressing my thoughts at the first place.

[Ultramarinus]

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

You forgot that the bird had told her the remedies, pray for Saya to appear. You think she won’t do the same when the same accident occur? I think she will.

And maybe she'll do that in 23, we shall see.

She did show interest when he talked to Layfon, she knew what happens in Myath but because Nina kept quite she thought everything was fine. But facts stated otherwise. All because of Nina hiding her secret.

As you said above, Leerin wouldn't have done anything until that particular moment, so Nina keeping it a secret ultimately didn't make any difference. There's also the difference of Grendan and together with it, behemoth FM's arriving.

Another thing is that there's no harm done to anyone other than Nina so far, it may prove to be good for Czellni after all as she'll dispatch those FM's. We've yet to see if the goat-mode will do any harm to the city of her friends.

Before ep 7 everyone the squad are bums. Nina still being emo, Sharnid goofing around, and Felli being selfish. Ep 7 is the turning point of the 17th. She didn’t singlehandedly save the town in ep 5, it’s both her and Layfon who did the job.

Nina herself is the only reason the platoon survived that far without disbanding, the rest are bums though. And sure she didn't save it all herself but she went as far as losing her life trying to hold the line against all odds. Battles are won thanks to such people, whoever routs first loses.

You say her ‘actions’, then I say Felli did her job properly as a soldier from ep 7 onwards, saving people. And seriously, Nina’s feat is pale compared to Felli’s with the list I’ve posted prior. You can have a good intention, but if you don’t have the ability, all you have for yourself is being a burden to others. Such as Nina, making others worried sick, and even she realized she indeed suck in controlling the goat.

Nope, Felli did what she needed to stay on Layfon's good side. That's exactly what she did. It's no more noble than obeying the speed limit because you saw a patrol car on the side of the road.

Nina is doing her best, you know that not everyone can have ultimate power thanks to their genes. And she didn't want to have the goat in the first place.

[TrueKnight]

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

As you said above, Leerin wouldn't have done anything until that particular moment, so Nina keeping it a secret ultimately didn't make any difference. There's also the difference of Grendan and together with it, behemoth FM's arriving.

What I said above was she already figured the necessary remedy. Why she couldn’t use the remedy beforehand was because Nina’s keeping the secret hidden. The team knew she was keeping something but didn’t know what. They all know there’s a problem with her, but because of her hiding the source, then everyone thought its fine. Except Felli and Leerin.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Another thing is that there's no harm done to anyone other than Nina so far, it may prove to be good for Czellni after all as she'll dispatch those FM's. We've yet to see if the goat-mode will do any harm to the city of her friends.

Well aside from the trouble and worrying fiasco she’s given to her squad, I agree.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Nina herself is the only reason the platoon survived that far without disbanding, the rest are bums though. And sure she didn't save it all herself but she went as far as losing her life trying to hold the line against all odds. Battles are won thanks to such people, whoever routs first loses.

In ep 5 case, who ever stays back then becomes bug food, with the exception of Layfon and Felli. And seriously the rest including Nina prior ep 7 were bums.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Nope, Felli did what she needed to stay on Layfon's good side. That's exactly what she did. It's no more noble than obeying the speed limit because you saw a patrol car on the side of the road.

Compared to what Nina had done to Zuellni, in terms of overall usefulness, Felli is definitely higher.

Originally Posted by Ultramarinus

Nina is doing her best, you know that not everyone can have ultimate power thanks to their genes. And she didn't want to have the goat in the first place.

Doing your best with good attention without the necessary power is moot because you ended up being a liability. Example shown is Nina.

…….I’m kinda tired bashing Nina all the time so I’m going to mention a positive thing on her for a change.

Nina didn’t have the natural born gifts like Layfon and Felli, but she have however, the authority to control and utilize them with her position as a platoon captain. Nina’s lawfully good behavior had somehow affected her squad. Nina already has Layfon in full control and check, where Layfon intends to ‘survive’ in a lawfully ‘good’ way instead ‘bad’. If you control Layfon, then basically you’ll manage indirectly to influence Felli, seeing she’d only listen to him.

In short, Nina’s the one capable of making Layfon and to some degree, though indirectly, Felli; manage to do some the good feats mentioned before.

Uhhh there's a bunch more positive stuffs, but this'll do for now I guess.

[Ultramarinus]

Well, we returned back to the old discussion so I guess it's best to call it a disagreement like we did back then. We have quite drastic differences in valuing and judging characters' actions and motivations. So I sheathe my dites to stop the derailing of the thread.

Still, thanks for writing that last part, as I had asked back then but couldn't get my answer. It eventually is here.

[Patriot's Blade]

oh, c-mon! Layfon!, where are the H-scenes, oh wait, that would make him look more evil!

& why did Leerin forget to give Lays his uber upgrade h4xx machine?, despite its directly under his bed?, or is there a reason about it?.

[justinstrife]

Finally watched the sub. Outside of Savaris, I'm losing interest in this show fast. Gave the episode a 6.

[Slick_rick]

So in this episode Layfon admits he has a bit of a hero complex. He could have found a different way to live/protect the people he cares about but he enjoys taking the risk/responsibility on himself. It really amazes me how similar Layfon and Nina truly are on many levels. I think they were meant for each other.

[black_cat1]

I think they're not that similar. Layfon take the risk cause he want to protect his friend, Nina take it just because her own thought about justice and responsibility.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by black_cat1

I think they're not that similar. Layfon take the risk cause he want to protect his friend, Nina take it just because her own thought about justice and responsibility.

I think its been stated many times that her primary reasoning is to protect Zuellni which would certainly be similar to his protect his friends. Remember what she said to him earlier that the reason for gaining power was to protect the things important to a person. She has a sense of justice and responsibility that Layfon lacks but he is starting to come around more to her way of thinking or at least appreciate it.