(L) Assassination Classroom

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Starlightz

-snip-

fact is Nagisa techniques actually work, no, rather than techniques, it's better to called it a trick, Kendo's kiai worked the same principle. A sudden yell can shocked someone for 1-2 second while a sword strike can reach it target in less than 0.5 sec and if you want RL example, Takanabe can pull of a Men strike in 0.1 sec. However, it's nature is it's useless once people knew it exist or seen it before. Karma seen Nagisa techniques before so it's useless by this point. And cause a CQC specialist or an experienced martial artist that's is superior than yourself by surprise during a match is impossible unless you have 4 or 5 hidden card.

again, so what if he is taking hit on purpose? it'd would be another story if their endurance is the same, but Karma have among the best endurance in the entire class. Again, 10 or 15 hits from a featherweight can't do much to a heavy weight, but a single hit from heavyweight can possibly kill featherweight. proof is in the very image you quote from Karma completely knocked Nagisa back in 1 hit while Nagisa with 4 or 5 hit can't do any real damage.

Why am i bring in logic in real fighting?? because this fight is focused on nature of fighting vs assassination and logic is the best way to differentiate them, or are you going the route of "it's manga, screw logic??" if that's the case, i have nothing left to say.

EDIT: FYI, Nagisa 's tricks exist in Koryuu Jujutsu, of course the original version have no clap. The original version involved a warrior drop either a Bo(staff), Katana, Yari(spear) to get their attention leading to either tackle opponent while drawing the tanto to stab through the necks or side. And many of it's variation include a yell to further distract someone while stab them with small arm. The army techniques of throwing an empty gun or barrels towards the opponents while moving in to stab them work in the same principle. Sword drop -> pinning is considered to be widely used techniques in tradittional Kenjutsu as well.

[Calliso]

Originally Posted by steam fish

dont you mean karma brought the fight to what he is good at? i mean it is close combat and we know that is karmas forte. the only time when it turned to nagisa's advantage is when he tricked karma at the end and karma got clap stunnered

Actually Karma was not tricked at the end. I think in the first early translation I do seem to remember it looking like Karma was shocked for a moment by the clap stun but then managed to break it by biting his tongue. But in the I think Mach 20 translation which from what I hear is supposed to be the better one he does not seem surprised at all in fact he seems to know it is coming right then. Which might be why he was able to bite his tongue in time. It also appears right now that he is likely the one trying to pull a trick on Nagisa. He is not only trying to beat Nagisa in fighting but in a straight up assassination as well. I would be really disappointed in Nagisa though if he doesn't manage to see through Karmas trick. Not to mention thinking about how Nagisa feels about Karma and his abilities I do think it would be sort of weird if he thought that simply the clap stun alone was enough of a trump card. He thinks Karma is a better assassin then him not to mention he knows Karma knows all about the clap stun and how it works.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

fact is Nagisa techniques actually work, no, rather than techniques, it's better to called it a trick, Kendo's kiai worked the same principle. A sudden yell can shocked someone for 1-2 second while a sword strike can reach it target in less than 0.5 sec and if you want RL example, Takanabe can pull of a Men strike in 0.1 sec. However, it's nature is it's useless once people knew it exist or seen it before. Karma seen Nagisa techniques before so it's useless by this point. And cause a CQC specialist or an experienced martial artist that's is superior than yourself by surprise during a match is impossible unless you have 4 or 5 hidden card.

again, so what if he is taking hit on purpose? it'd would be another story if their endurance is the same, but Karma have among the best endurance in the entire class. Again, 10 or 15 hits from a featherweight can't do much to a heavy weight, but a single hit from heavyweight can possibly kill featherweight. proof is in the very image you quote from Karma completely knocked Nagisa back in 1 hit while Nagisa with 4 or 5 hit can't do any real damage.

Why am i bring in logic in real fighting?? because this fight is focused on nature of fighting vs assassination and logic is the best way to differentiate them, or are you going the route of "it's manga, screw logic??" if that's the case, i have nothing left to say.

EDIT: FYI, Nagisa 's tricks exist in Koryuu Jujutsu, of course the original version have no clap. The original version involved a warrior drop either a Bo(staff), Katana, Yari(spear) to get their attention leading to either tackle opponent while drawing the tanto to stab through the necks or side. And many of it's variation include a yell to further distract someone while stab them with small arm. The army techniques of throwing an empty gun or barrels towards the opponents while moving in to stab them work in the same principle. Sword drop -> pinning is considered to be widely used techniques in tradittional Kenjutsu as well.

Made all the worse by the fact that Karma learned CQC by just watching Karasuma and was able to do it perfectly from the get go.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

again, so what if he is taking hit on purpose? it'd would be another story if their endurance is the same, but Karma have among the best endurance in the entire class. Again, 10 or 15 hits from a featherweight can't do much to a heavy weight, but a single hit from heavyweight can possibly kill featherweight. proof is in the very image you quote from Karma completely knocked Nagisa back in 1 hit while Nagisa with 4 or 5 hit can't do any real damage.

It's not about the damage, it never was. Nagisa is able to kill you in one hit regardless of damage.

[Calliso]

I think even applying manga logic does not mean Nagisa would be able to do some of the techniques mentioned before. Even manga characters have rules and limitations. We have a pretty good idea I think of what Nagisa's are. We know he is weak the author has made that clear many times not to mention fighting is not his strong suit either. So him pulling off some of the stuff mentioned earlier would not only break real world logic it would also go against how the character has been established.

[Eisdrache]

That's just a misconception. Nagisa is physically weaker than Karma but he's still much stronger than an average human thanks to his training. Also he's a genius at assassination. Just because they're having a brawl now doesn't mean that only physical abilities are relevant.

[Calliso]

Eh I have my doubts he far stronger then your average human, but that is not really important amongst the Class E students he is certainly one of the weakest and compared to Karma its like night and day. He may be a genius at assassination but in a fight like this it is going to pretty hard to really use that talent. I think in assassination you want to kill your target before they even realize you were there or that you were actually a threat. A fight like this does severely limit Nagisa. I mean he does have the clap stun but Karma knew about that already and as we saw already came up with a way to defeat that. I will admit though now that Karma is trying to turn this into more of an assassination that that hopefully should even things out more since assassination is Nagisa's specialty. I am hoping next week we will get to see Nagisa really show off his assassination skills. Though I think that whether or not Nagisa wins this will likely be determined in the next few moments of the fight. I think it could possibly be one of his best and maybe last chances. It does seem like Karma seems to think he has defeated Nagisa's trump card. That line that said something like "there it is the last of your strength" when Nagisa used the clap stun. So if Karma thinks that was Nagisas last trick/trump card he might be caught off guard here if Nagisa has something else up his sleeve. However even if that is the case Nagisa would have to make sure that attempt really counted because he probably would not get another one.

[Eisdrache]

Nagisa climbed up a cliff without breaking a sweat and so did everyone else of the class that was present. They are certainly far stronger than an average human.

It has been said multiple times already but Nagisa only needs one good hit to turn the tables. Where people got the idea from that Karma is aware of all of Nagisa's abilities is unknown. Even if that were the case, Nagisa can always come up with something new during the fight and assassinate Karma.

[Starlightz]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

<apply real life logic to Assassination Classroom>

In case you somehow missed it, I never said Assassination Classroom's techniques aren't based on real life techniques, so I'm not quite sure why are you listing techniques that are similar to, *but not the same as*, what happened in the story. I'm quite sure most of us are aware that there are similar stuffs in real life. However, Assassination Classroom is NOT a manga aiming to depict real life martial arts, so most techniques in the story are amplified (in comparison to real life) - that's my point.

As you pointed out in your own post, there are real life techniques that similar to Nagisa's are aimed to distract the opponent for a moment. However, that's all they do. Now, let's have a look at Assassination Classroom. You have Nagisa's Nekodamashi being capable of a mindblowing effect that somehow almost physically knock his opponent down. Then there is the improved version, a clap that fully paralyze and knock down the opponent for minutes (at least) without even touching them. Going further than that, you have the chairman who went from a complete newbie in martial art to beating a black belt just by watching him for a day, or Karasuma dodging bullets *after* they were shot and effortlessly blocking an arrow / knife shooting at him from close distance by his teeth. The list goes on and on. Good luck finding anyone in real life capable of that. That was my point.

The techniques in AC may resemble those in real life, but they are amplified up (for the cool effect, obviously), so don't just apply common logic into it. They might not defy common logic to the point of FTL attacks or killing people with a finger and such, but Nagisa being capable of delivering strikes that can defeat people in one shot isn't that far-fetched. In fact, Korosensei - the strongest fighter and assassin there - pointed out that Nagisa can. Is there any reason for us to believe Korosensei was wrong or lying? Nope. Of course, Karma still has his advantages, but it's not like he has no (or very low) risk in this fight. Tanking Nagisa's attack carry certain amount of risks (according to Korosensei, again), and Karma is doing that willingly. That's why I was predicting that in the end, Karma will beat Nagisa in their fight, but Nagisa will be able to hit Karma with a weapon at the last second and win the battle. Both used their all in their respective strengths, and everyone can accept the result in the end.

[Calliso]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Nagisa climbed up a cliff without breaking a sweat and so did everyone else of the class that was present. They are certainly far stronger than an average human.

It has been said multiple times already but Nagisa only needs one good hit to turn the tables. Where people got the idea from that Karma is aware of all of Nagisa's abilities is unknown. Even if that were the case, Nagisa can always come up with something new during the fight and assassinate Karma.

Ok he is stronger then the average person. However when you compare him to his classmates he is quite weak. Especially compared to KarmA it's like night and day. Now I realize strength alone is not all that matters in CQC but Karma also has the speed,sramina,skill and natural talent to really make use of that strength.

Nagisa may only need one hit but could he actually pull it off? Karma was not just standing there taking his blows. He was fighting back as well and we saw just how hard Karma was hitting him. How much longer do you think he could take those kind of hits and not not only manage to fight back but also avoid Karma's blade as well? Fortunately for Nagisa Karma seems to want to end this fight in an assassination. So now I do feel Nagisa has a legitimate chance.

Karma probably knows whatever we know for the most part. We can't say that is everything though. I am sure Nagisa has been trying to come up with something. What I can't say since I get the feeling whatever he does whether it succeeds or not will surprise us. Karma may end up really regretting not sticking to what he excels in lol.

[Ramero]

Karma was already a natural talent as a close combat fighter. Nagisa currently is the most spotlighted person because he kept evolved from time to time. From Lovro until God of Death itself he was evolved to a higher level. For nagisa i think he will be defeated this time but for the next match against number two, Karma will be defeated, most likely total defeat while Nagisa will be the only person that can defeat number two.

[Starlightz]

So yeah, spoiler out, translated version probably coming out soon. As expected and unexpected

Spoiler:

Nagisa wins. Both the CQC fight and the battle, however, no trick involving hitting Karma with a knife as I expected involved.
Karma had his chance to grab victory when he was losing, but he decided not to take it since it won't be persuasive.

[NeutralZero]

well the translation is out...
kinda ironic that what Karma did in an earlier chapter became the reason he lost their fight...
also kinda pity Kanzaki, another sucker fall for her
and now that they also mentioned the outside force that want Tako-sensei to die, wonder if they will be the next foucs of the story alongside the cure...

[The One Above God]

Nagisa gave him a taste of his own medicine. Seems like a fitting end to me.

[GreyZone]

When Nagisa didn't stop after Karma admitted defeat... I wonder if he was just so strongly in "killing mode" that he wasn't aware of what Karma said, or if he actually continued on purpose for some reason, but it's probably the former one.

[NeutralZero]

They probably put in for a somewhat comedic purpose as to that he is to focus to hear that Karma is surrendering...

[Sixth]

So, Nagisa threw away his chance to snipe Karma and with that, Karma repay Nagis'a kindness by throwing the fight too?

Hmmmm...why don't both of them just get a room?

Hooray Kanzaki. She got another fanboy. She is destined to get surrounded by a poor men.

[NeutralZero]

It's not like he threw away the battle because of Nagisa's kindness
it is the same with Nagisa not sniping him unarmed and accepting CQC
If he uses the dagger and not over power Nagisa then his victory would be cheap and none will be able to accept it, his stance would also lose its merit
in a way if he use the knife he won the battle but loses the war...
him accepting defeat also mean that what Nagisa wants to convey reaches him

[Wandering Soul]

So Nagisa managed to win by turning Karma's trick around on him and got him to surrender. While this will probably end in assassination I'm looking forward to what they come up with when it comes to saving him.

Kanzaki also managed to get another admirer from thus battle.

[Calliso]

Well that was a relief! Though I guess it isn't too surprising I mean a blue team/Nagisa win was sorta hinted at since the beginning. Still Karma surrendering like that was not something I saw coming same with Nagisa and that choke hold. My opinion of Karma definitely went up as well. He could have won and I do not think he would have been in the wrong for doing so. He felt strongly about his own position but was still able to make the choice he did. Not to mention he had a good attitude afterwards no pouting or grumbling under his breath lol.

Also even though I do still kinda wish it would have taken longer I am glad they made up this chapter. Yeah it's very unrealistic and all that but it was just so sweet I can't bring myself to care too much. My only gripe though is it does make it seem like they had just a minor disagreement and minor issues in their relationship. At this point though I am just looking forward to the next arc.