Character Discussion - Kallen

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Oh, give her a break, guys. Kallen's mom's been working her ass off for how many years now? Lady just wants to lounge in bed for a while, and I say more power to her.

Ha, too true. That and after all she's done the Black Knights at least owe it to Kallen to cover her expenses.

[Kang Seung Jae]

*Facepalm at the current discussion*


People, stop. Let's be positive here.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

*Facepalm at the current discussion*


People, stop. Let's be positive here.

S/he compared the fairly normal raging of a fairly normal tsundere to third grade fanfiction.

And then backpedaled by saying it was a joke.

What is there to be positive about when people fling themselves into denial or delusions?

UH and yes, Kallen is my golden favourite, and I've stated before that I am more a Kallen fan than a CG fan.


BTW it's the Kallen thread. If you don't like her or don't like that other people like her, then I suggest you not wasting your time on her or her fans.

Neither of these things are the problem. You don't seem to get it. You are allowed to love Kallen on some kind of insane untold level. The series doesn't stop and completely deconstruct EVERYTHING it established for a fairy tale ending for one character because you like them.

The writing is not sophomoric because you didn't like the way your favorite character was characterized, even if they were acting completely in character. You're entitled to want everything to play out exactly as you scripted it in your mind, but then you also look idiotic by complaining if it doesn't work out that way.

[Narona]

Calm down guys. Let's talk about hat for women! And what kind of hat Kallen could wear XD

No I'm joking

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

*facepalms*
Even if it's true, that line she said to C.C. reminds me of third-grade fanfiction, when the writer can't resist to make one party look bad to ship his/her OTP....

You know, maybe okouchi did that on purpose because there are a lot of cluclu fans in japan. Or maybe because himself is a cluclu fan of his own story ^^

The fact is that it seems we will never know.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by Narona

You know, maybe okouchi did that on purpose because there are a lot of cluclu fans in japan. Or maybe because himself is a cluclu fan of his own story ^^

The fact is that it seems we will never know.

Narona, you're a bit more civil to talk to, so maybe some examples can be drawn for them off our conversation on the same thing: maybe it's not so much that she was turning into some horrible caricature of what opposing fans would show her as so much as she was just angry.

I mean, sure, they'd be appeasing the majority fanbase, but Kallen is still very popular in any area. It was a mean line, but it also fit her state of mind and characterization extremely well. It's like saying that any time Lelouch broke into evil posing and laughter, they were appeasing the anti-Lelouch people. It's just...part of what they do. Kallen wasn't going to stay squeaky clean until the end of the show, and we found her weakness: Lelouch.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Narona

You know, maybe okouchi did that on purpose because there are a lot of cluclu fans in japan. Or maybe because himself is a cluclu fan of his own story ^^

The fact is that it seems we will never know.

The problem comes from that if it was really the case then instead of focusing the time on Kallen there could have been actual development between C.C and Lelouch, perhaps using her past as a bridge to connect the two farther. That way perhaps we would have gotten better development from her and maybe farther explanation and development on Geass.

As it stands if that was really true then basically Kallen was shafted because C.C and Lelouch was more marketable rather then for any story related reasons. -.-

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Narona

Calm down guys. Let's talk about hat for women! And what kind of hat Kallen could wear XD

No I'm joking


You know, maybe okouchi did that on purpose because there are a lot of cluclu fans in japan. Or maybe because himself is a cluclu fan of his own story ^^

The fact is that it seems we will never know.

There are A LOT of Cluclu fans.. that's why I don't understand why they made Kallen a potential romantic interest in R2... its weird.. then the made the ending ambiguous.. 70 percent fans are Cluclu, so what was the big deal if he made it cannon? isn't strange?

As a Kallen fan, I would rather have her kick ass more or turned on Lulu way before and that would have made thing much more interesting..

whatever, she got a good ending..

and true..

[Narona]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

The problem comes from that if it was really the case then instead of focusing the time on Kallen there could have been actual development between C.C and Lelouch, perhaps using her past as a bridge to connect the two farther. That way perhaps we would have gotten better development from her and maybe farther explanation and development on Geass.

As it stands if that was really true then basically Kallen was shafted because C.C and Lelouch was more marketable rather then for any story related reasons. -.-

In my opinion, cluclu was developed in R1 (because it was popular in japan), Kalulu in R2 (because it was popular in some other asian countries like korea and china who buy, i guess, a lot of merchandising).

Then they did an ambiguous ending to try to please everyone.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

There are A LOT of Cluclu fans.. that's why I don't understand why they made Kallen a potential romantic interest in R2... its weird.. then the made the ending ambiguous.. 70 percent fans are Cluclu, so what was the big deal if he made it cannon? isn't strange?

That's why so many people are in the "he's alive and with her!" camp. No comment. In all honesty, with such an unpleasable fanbase, it doesn't make a single difference what they do with the ending. And if you ask me, they did everything they needed to for Kallen. We got the point of her character, her development remained there. Just because she didn't end up with Lelouch doesn't mean she didn't GAIN anything on the way to almost getting there.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Narona

Then they did an ambiguous ending.

To make everyone happy (at least, those that aren't hardcore).


I'm satisfied with the ending as is. Of course, learning what Lelouch thought of Kallen would have made things more perfect, but I guess it's something hard to add in given the ending.

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

There are A LOT of Cluclu fans.. that's why I don't understand why they made Kallen a potential romantic interest in R2... its weird.. then the made the ending ambiguous.. 70 percent fans are Cluclu, so what was the big deal if he made it cannon? isn't strange?

As a Kallen fan, I would rather have her kick ass more or turned on Lulu way before and that would have made thing much more interesting..

whatever, she got a good ending..

and true..

70 percent? Was that a conservative estimate?



(The percentage in the mainland Chinese fandom is more...horrifying...)
Hmm, 90% of the female fans are yaoifangirls, but most of them have nothing against CluClu.
Then we have male fans (those interested in shipping) who support Lelouch's harem, with C.C. as the empress and the rest as concubines.

Many Kallen fans in the Chinese fandom either want siscon to stay away from Kallen or dabble a little in Casino...

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Vakir

That's why so many people are in the "he's alive and with her!" camp. No comment. In all honesty, with such an unpleasable fanbase, it doesn't make a single difference what they do with the ending. And if you ask me, they did everything they needed to for Kallen. We got the point of her character, her development remained there. Just because she didn't end up with Lelouch doesn't mean she didn't GAIN anything on the way to almost getting there.

THIS... I agree with.. she got practically one of the best closures IMO

and the rest of your post.. I think you can tell if I agree or not..

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

70 percent? Was that a conservative estimate?



(The percentage in the Chinese fandom is more...horrifying...)
Hmm, 90% of the female fans are yaoifangirls, but most of them have nothing against CluClu.
Then we have male fans (who are interested in shipping) who support the Lelouch harem idea, with C.C. as the empress and the rest as concubines.

I will never understand this.. EVER

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

To make everyone happy (at least, those that aren't hardcore).


I'm satisfied with the ending as is. Of course, learning what Lelouch thought of Kallen would have made things more perfect, but I guess it's something hard to add in given the ending.

Yup. This is serious buziness. Almost everything is about money, and that's sad because it really feels that they did an ambiguous romance plot and ending on purpose<_<

Yup ^^. But TBH I would have prefered a no ambiguous ending, even if it means that they would have chosen kalulu and not cluclu.

[Vakir]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

To make everyone happy (at least, those that aren't hardcore).

Not necessarily. It could've been ambiguous for any number of reasons, not limited to Lelouch not giving a flying eff about either party for the sake of the world. The fact that he barely showed any more favor to either party and his favor could've been interpreted in several ways doesn't work against the argument that he's almost literally a celibate hero in the name of "the world, omg." Let's face it: I want my friends of the opposite sex to "live on," and I also want to make them "smile." It doesn't mean I want to screw them on top of it. Well, maybe a couple, non-romantically.

The ending's ambiguous, but it wasn't necessarily to favor both parties or neither party. It may've been ambiguous even if no one gave a rat's ass about shipping in the entire collective viewer base, probably because it just wasn't necessary.

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Narona

Yup. This is serious buziness. Almost everything is about money, and that's sad because it really feels that they did an ambiguous romance plot and ending on purpose<_<

Yup ^^. But TBH I would have prefered a no ambiguous ending, even if it means that they would have chosen kalulu and not cluclu.

But then that would have pissed off 70 percent of shipper fans..

Plus there are the Yaoi girls... My god... Poor Kallen, so much hate for her on her episode 22 kiss.. "oh no she kissed a boy and she liked it!"

Sometimes I feel sorry for these writers and what they have to deal with..

Originally Posted by Vakir

The ending's ambiguous, but it wasn't necessarily to favor both parties or neither party. It may've been ambiguous even if no one gave a rat's ass about shipping in the entire collective viewer base, probably because it just wasn't necessary.

I honestly think it mostly had to do with his death.. lets face it, if there was not enough hints that Lulu is alive... people would have been raging, boycotting, and sending death letters ect...

That's why it was "ambiguous" IMO

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

I will never understand this.. EVER

Then you'll never understand a fanboy who has an inner fangirl: I also support yaois and yuris

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Then you'll never understand a fanboy who has an inner fangirl: I also support yaois and yuris

Well, as a fangirl I loathe yaoi, but I sorta like the C.C.XKallen ship....and EuphieXNina would be my OTP WITHOUT the table incident.

[kir44n]

Originally Posted by Vakir

Not necessarily. It could've been ambiguous for any number of reasons, not limited to Lelouch not giving a flying eff about either party for the sake of the world. The fact that he barely showed any more favor to either party and his favor could've been interpreted in several ways doesn't work against the argument that he's almost literally a celibate hero in the name of "the world, omg." Let's face it: I want my friends of the opposite sex to "live on," and I also want to make them "smile." It doesn't mean I want to screw them on top of it. Well, maybe a couple, non-romantically.

The ending's ambiguous, but it wasn't necessarily to favor both parties or neither party. It may've been ambiguous even if no one gave a rat's ass about shipping in the entire collective viewer base, probably because it just wasn't necessary.

The only problem I can see with this interpretation of course, is that they decided to include the romance subplot within the show. If they fully intended Lelouch to be "Lelouch of the no hormones", they could have left it out and let there be only the other standard drama. They were fairly aware of the shipping that occured, and gave enough material out too keep the shipping war going. This can especially be viewed on the Kallen side of the matter with the teases that lasted all R2.

With this in mind, the idea that it was left ambiguous to not definitively sink one fanbase gains a certain amount of credence over the "permanently celibate hero". Of course, theres always the possibility of them leaving it open/ambiguous to pick up the plot again at a later time (and still have the anxiety/shipping ready to pick up when they do).

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Well, as a fangirl I loathe yaoi, but I sorta like the C.C.XKallen ship....and EuphieXNina would be my OTP WITHOUT the table incident.

Ah, you were a fangirl? Never noticed.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Narona

In my opinion, cluclu was developed in R1 (because it was popular in japan), Kalulu in R2 (because it was popular in some other asian countries like korea and china who buy, i guess, a lot of merchandising).

Then they did an ambiguous ending to try to please everyone.

C.C and Lelouch was not developed in season one, it had some development and scenes that could amount to that but again was not exactly explicit and could be taken in a more of a maternal light. However not to completely dismiss it, R1 was merely the start or could have provided a solid foundation to build on. Which they dropped in R2. My point was that if that were the case then I would have preferred a more developed pairing rather then starting the possibility of one, shift gears for the next season to focus on building another only to force things near the end for the first one.

But an ambiguous ending is not really pleasing the fans or anything when it gives you either an undeveloped couple or a developed paring that was screwed for marketing purposes. Hell if they had focused more on C.C, we may even have gotten more exposition on Geass and perhaps that plot could have been wrapped up neater then it did. At the very least we development in R2 would not be so forced.