Fate/ Series Q&A

[Exellon_Nanoha]

Have you try The Moonlit World? I think that site has a good summary (and it's one of the best English Type-Moon related stuff site).

yes i have and it doesnt realy have anything about dark sakura herself, and the info that is has is basicly the same as on wiki.

[Blade_Lord]

Can someone tell me more about the background of the zelretch sword?

Whats up with Berserker eyes? After he kills Archer his eyes glows in the anime.

Who is Rider's master? Shinji or Sakura??

Quote:
But Shirou also said that "there is no rule that the imitation cannot defeat the original".
Which route? And didnt Gilgamesh states that The fake cannot defeat the original when he slash Shirou during their second confrontation?

Spoiler for Fate/zero:

1)Caster mistaken Saber as Joan of arc. Why did he he thought so??
2)Who kill Lancelot??

[Alaya]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Can someone tell me more about the background of the zelretch sword?

Taken from Fuyuki wiki (I can't remember precisely so sorry to copy-paste):

Spoiler for Jewel Sword of Zelretch:

Allows for the brief opening of a hole to peek into a neighboring world "with different possibilities." On its own, it doesn't have the ability to amplify Prana at all or create it out of nowhere. Rin draws on energy through the hole using Zelretch and releases it. What's being released from the sword is just pure Prana. Interference with the neighboring world other than what was mentioned is not possible. Not as good as the original, which is said to have stopped the moon-crash. There is also a physical cost associated with continuing to use it like that. From each use, Rin's muscles were being cut (may have been the result of using her circuits to the max). Can be exploded, just like any other jewel.

Traced by Shirou using Archer's know-how and the memories/records existing inside of Ilya of Zelretch and his sword.

The one appearing here is a traced version based on seeing the original Zelretch and design schematics left behind by Zelretch as homework for the Tohsaka line. A little different from the original which is said to have stopped the "moon fall".

Said to only be able to be used by the inheritors of Schweinorg.

Rin can make another one of these over time, provided she has the money, which would imply that she won't need Shirou's help in making it.

Whats up with Berserker eyes? After he kills Archer his eyes glows in the anime.

I don't think anything special. I think it just show that Berserker response to Ilya's order.

Who is Rider's master? Shinji or Sakura??

Spoiler for Rider's Master:

Sakura is Rider's true master but Shinji force her to give him command spells in the form of books.

Which route? And didnt Gilgamesh states that The fake cannot defeat the original when he slash Shirou during their second confrontation?

Spoiler for Imitation and original:

Shirou said it in the game in UBW route. He said like "There's no need to be surprised. These are all imitations. As you say, there are all trifling swords", "But there's no rule that an imitation cannot beat the original. If you say you are an original, I shall surpass every one of your weapons and destroy your existence", and the becoming classic phrase of Emiya Shirou, "Here I come, King of Heroes. Do you have enough weapons in stock?"

In Fate, I think Gilgamesh said something like the son cannot it's father. I have to replay the route though (because I replay only UBW many times).

Spoiler for Fate/zero:

1)Caster mistaken Saber as Joan of arc. Why did he he thought so??
2)Who kill Lancelot??

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

I can't remember about Caster. But for Berserker, he is killed by Saber because his master runs out of prana.

[Archer]

Originally Posted by Alaya

Spoiler for Imitation and original:

Shirou said it in the game in UBW route. He said like "There's no need to be surprised. These are all imitations. As you say, there are all trifling swords", "But there's no rule that an imitation cannot beat the original. If you say you are an original, I shall surpass every one of your weapons and destroy your existence", and the becoming classic phrase of Emiya Shirou, "Here I come, King of Heroes. Do you have enough weapons in stock?"

In Fate, I think Gilgamesh said something like the son cannot it's father. I have to replay the route though (because I replay only UBW many times).

The rule here is that the son cannot surpass the father. Any derivative of the original will be weaker than the original, no matter how strong or how different that derivative might be. This stems from not the weapons themselves, but rather the concept behind the weapon.

However, that doesn't mean that the father can't be defeated by the son.

[Blade_Lord]

Archer claimed that Saber defeated him because he dropped his guard. Is this true??Why?

SIlly question: IS there a chance Shirou accidentally make Saber pregnant when he supposed to give his magic circuit??

Spoiler for UBW:

Why did lancer offers Shirou and Rin help...Is it on Bazzete order or is his mood that good??
Kirei told Lancer to kill himself but Lancer stabs him instead. Why doesnt the command mantra work??
How does Lancer knew Archer really mean it when he told them he doesnt follow caster anymore??
Can anyone give me a description on Lancer vs Archer battle? I mean how does the battle goes on until it ends.

The rule here is that the son cannot surpass the father. Any derivative of the original will be weaker than the original, no matter how strong or how different that derivative might be. This stems from not the weapons themselves, but rather the concept behind the weapon.

However, that doesn't mean that the father can't be defeated by the son.

You confused me archer. If the son defeated the father doesnt that mean it has surpassed its father??

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Archer claimed that Saber defeated him because he dropped his guard. Is this true??Why?

Archer said Saber defeated him in an instant because he was surprised. But Saber will still defeat him in a 1 on 1 fight without circumstances that is significantly advantageous to Archer as the difference between their status are too big.

Spoiler for UBW:

Why did lancer offers Shirou and Rin help...Is it on Bazzete order or is his mood that good??

Lancer was doing on his own accord. It has nothing to do with his master.

Spoiler:

Kirei told Lancer to kill himself but Lancer stabs him instead. Why doesnt the command mantra work??

Lancer did obey his order--he stabbed himself, and then stabbed his Kirei. According to him a heroic spirit won't die instantly even if you strike them at their weak point.

Spoiler:

How does Lancer knew Archer really mean it when he told them he doesnt follow caster anymore??

No idea...

Spoiler:

Can anyone give me a description on Lancer vs Archer battle? I mean how does the battle goes on until it ends.

Play the game...

You confused me archer. If the son defeated the father doesnt that mean it has surpassed its father??

A sword is stronger than a butter knife but the person holding the knife can still beat the person holding a sword if he has better skill.

[Exellon_Nanoha]

can anyone tell me what dark sakura's personailty is like, in detail please iv been looking everywere and cnt seem to get a good answer.

[Blade_Lord]

Quote:
Spoiler:
Can anyone give me a description on Lancer vs Archer battle? I mean how does the battle goes on until it ends.
Play the game...

Okay. Who defeated Dark/black berserker??
If Shirou were to become archer will he be stronger than the previous archer??

[Alaya]

Originally Posted by Exellon_Nanoha

can anyone tell me what dark sakura's personailty is like, in detail please iv been looking everywere and cnt seem to get a good answer.

My best bet would be waiting until Heaven's Feel translation. Dark Sakura's personality is like..... quite complicated.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Okay. Who defeated Dark/black berserker??

Shirou

If Shirou were to become archer will he be stronger than the previous archer??

Depend which Shirou you're talking about...In my own opinion Fate Shirou will grow up to be the Archer we see, UBW Shirou will be a version. B or the original Archer who's ten times harder to kill and HF Shirou will never become Archer as he gave up his original goal.

Originally Posted by Exellon_Nanoha

can anyone tell me what dark sakura's personailty is like, in detail please iv been looking everywere and cnt seem to get a good answer.

Erm...Dark? I agree with Alaya, it's hard to describe in a just few paragraphs...

[Fuuma]

Someone told me archer got an idea on creating UBW by thinking of reversing GOB? is that true?

What does GOB mean?

[Kimiko Khan]

one thing that bugs me is it seems like everyone says archer has an immense disadvantage. rank considering rank thats obvious but skill wise he's incredibly impressive and not only is unlimited blade works in my opinion a huge asset but the broken phantasms he uses aren't something to laugh at and i read in wiki that he has the ability to use any possible strategy to use his advantage or is it just that this war is a war with incredibly exceptional servants that can outclass him no matter what even though he too is an exceptional servant

[Blade_Lord]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

What does GOB mean?

Wikipedia is about 50% correct.So dont take it seriously.

GOB means Gate Of Babylon. It also bugs me when Gilgamesh uses it on Saber, Saber didnt know his real identity.
Also about archer yes he's outclass by the other servant in ability, I doubt the one he fought during his life is anything like the servant he fought in the holy grail war.
But still im impressed Archer hold his ground against Lancer and Berserker(Yes he was defeated but he managed to bring down at least 5 lives with him.). If archer uses battle tactics then it explains why the heck he's able to keep the batttle pace.

iamandragon, which NP did shirou uses to defeat Dark Berserker?

Also does activating UBW considered as a situation advantageous to archer(against saber that is)??

[OceanBlue]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Also does activating UBW considered as a situation advantageous to archer(against saber that is)??

Not necessarily. He may have the ability to trace without using materials, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't have enough mana. That's why he can't use a full-powered Excalibur in his reality marble. Depending on Saber's stats [UBW Saber vs. Fate Saber], Saber could probably end up beating Archer even with UBW, especially if Saber decides to use Excalibur or can use Avalon.

Edit: Actually, I might need confirmation on this. Since Archer was able to take out 5 of Berserker's lives, who has all or almost all stats at A or higher [If I remember correctly, around the stats of UBW Saber. I need to check.], it's possible that UBW could beat Saber. The difference between Saber and Berserker is in terms of skill [Berserker's skill was taken away from him by Mad Enhancement if I'm not mistaken], abilities [Saber has Instinct, which actually helps her a lot in the VN], and NPs [Berserker only has God's Hand due to being the Berserker class, but Saber has both attacking and defensive NPs].

[kuchiki]

Hey all, just a simple question for those who have played the Visual Novel as well as seen the anime.

Does the anime include important aspects from the Heaven's Feel and Unlimited Blade Works routes? I have finished the Fate route of the novel, and am considering to check the anime out next. Should I go for it, or will it spoil the two remaining routes of the game for me? Since in that case, I'd rather watch the anime afterwards.

For some reason, I don't mind watching an anime of a story I know, but I hate reading something I can predict.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

What does GOB mean?

Gate of Babylon--the actual Noble Phantasm of Gil is the key to open Gate of Babylon, which he stores all his other Noble Phantasms and Ea.

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

iamandragon, which NP did shirou uses to defeat Dark Berserker?

Nine Lives--that's the bow-type Noble Phantasm of 5th Berserker, who cannot use it due to mad enchantment. Shirou managed to project it out and take out all 12 lives of Dark Berserker in 1 hit.

Also does activating UBW considered as a situation advantageous to archer(against saber that is)??

UBW does give Archer a huge advantage against anyone, but gap between Archer and Saber's status are way too big for that advantage to change the outcome of the battle if they are both to fight unrestrained. Apart from against Gilgamesh, Archer's ability in sword making is really just a nuisance for other servants. Saber has can repel even Gilgamesh's swords the same way, Lancer have the passive ability to repel them without trying, Rider is too fast to catch up, Caster can defend against the sword with a shield/field as Archer's attacks are actually weak, while Berserker completely ignores them. The only one who probably can't withstand it is assassin...(True or Fake)

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Edit: Actually, I might need confirmation on this. Since Archer was able to take out 5 of Berserker's lives, who has all or almost all stats at A or higher [If I remember correctly, around the stats of UBW Saber. I need to check.], it's possible that UBW could beat Saber. The difference between Saber and Berserker is in terms of skill [Berserker's skill was taken away from him by Mad Enhancement if I'm not mistaken], abilities [Saber has Instinct, which actually helps her a lot in the VN], and NPs [Berserker only has God's Hand due to being the Berserker class, but Saber has both attacking and defensive NPs].

We don't know if Archer used UBW to fight Berserker, as the anime is really not canon and nothing was mentioned in the game. But Archer was able to hit Berserker because he is slow enough for Archer to use 'charged up' attacks in exchange of power. In the UBW route, Archer could only fight on even footing against a Saber who was completely drained of mana, so imagine if Archer were to fight a full powered Saber--UBW can bring him advantages, but not that much.

Originally Posted by kuchiki

Does the anime include important aspects from the Heaven's Feel and Unlimited Blade Works routes? I have finished the Fate route of the novel, and am considering to check the anime out next. Should I go for it, or will it spoil the two remaining routes of the game for me? Since in that case, I'd rather watch the anime afterwards.

Not much of HF were demonstrated in the anime. In fact the anime is actually the Fate route orientated with little aspects of the other routes. Some scenes are altered slightly for metaphors of other routes, but you'll have to pay much attention to catch them.

[Blade_Lord]

UBW does give Archer a huge advantage against anyone, but gap between Archer and Saber's status are way too big for that advantage to change the outcome of the battle if they are both to fight unrestrained. Apart from against Gilgamesh, Archer's ability in sword making is really just a nuisance for other servants. Saber has can repel even Gilgamesh's swords the same way, Lancer have the passive ability to repel them without trying, Rider is too fast to catch up, Caster can defend against the sword with a shield/field as Archer's attacks are actually weak, while Berserker completely ignores them. The only one who probably can't withstand it is assassin...(True or Fake)

Hold it...A few weeks/months ago you said that when Archer sneak attack Caster she didn’t fire blue lights out of hand to block the sword because its like stopping a missile with bullets.
Caster is so good she didn’t need to say the incantation to block riders attack(fast attack) using her shield so why did she die by archer “so-called” weak attack??

I guess i take back my word.Archer is a counter guardian. That means he faced a lot of “menace” that brought the world to the brink of destruction.And he kill all of those despite his feeling. If he’s weak do you really think archer stood a chance against those?? Archer don’t only fight in his lifetime but also being summoned again and again to protect the world and to do his master bidding. His experience in the ways of war should be able to match Saber. However since archer is not fighting for justice I don’t think he give his all against the servant in the 5th holy grail.


* Hrunting (フルンディング, Huruntingu?): The Hound of the Red Plains (赤原猟犬, Akahara ryōken?)

Rank:
Type: Anti-Unit
A thick, serrated jet black sword, first seen in Archer's possession during Fate/hollow ataraxia. When fired as a Broken Phantasm, Hrunting actively seeks out the most direct route to its target so long as Archer continues to aim at the target. It will continue to home in even if its blade is evaded, deflected, or blocked. This Noble Phantasm will also penetrate obstructions of its fight path, and it possesses enough power to bypass four layers of Rho Aias. In Dene, an enchanted sword named Hrunting was gifted onto the hero Beowulf by Unferth, and was later used to no avail in battle against a large ettin known as Grendel's mother, although Beowulf was grateful to Unferth for its use.

Prsume that archer got this sword then Lancer, caster& rider will surely got hit by this blade. Saber perhaps use avalon to block it.
Rider is fast but

Spoiler for Manga:

She cannot dodge perfectly when Archer sniped her in manga

I wonder why didnt archer use nine lives against Berserker then?? Illya did told them her servant true identity right??

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Blade_Lord

Hold it...A few weeks/months ago you said that when Archer sneak attack Caster she didn’t fire blue lights out of hand to block the sword because its like stopping a missile with bullets.
Caster is so good she didn’t need to say the incantation to block riders attack(fast attack) using her shield so why did she die by archer “so-called” weak attack??

Caster could block Archer's attacks with her shield, but not when she's got her attention on something else(referring to the underground scene in UBW). Archer attacked Caster when she was distracted by Saber, heavily injured by Rin, and further more, when she thought Archer is her ally and took her guard against him. That's how he got her.
However, in the Fate route, she have demonstrated that she is capable of blocking some of Gilgamesh's weaker attacks, and knowing the fact that Archer's attacks are all weaker form of Gilgamesh's, she can block them if Archer is to fight Caster 1 on 1. Unfortunately is neither will allow the situation.

I guess i take back my word.Archer is a counter guardian. That means he faced a lot of “menace” that brought the world to the brink of destruction.And he kill all of those despite his feeling. If he’s weak do you really think archer stood a chance against those?? Archer don’t only fight in his lifetime but also being summoned again and again to protect the world and to do his master bidding. His experience in the ways of war should be able to match Saber. However since archer is not fighting for justice I don’t think he give his all against the servant in the 5th holy grail.

I'm not sure about it, but I remember Archer once mentioned in Fate/HA that he wears his red coat when he think he is fighting for justice--so I believe the chance of Archer actually holding back in the 5th HG war is slim.

* Hrunting

Prsume that archer got this sword then Lancer, caster& rider will surely got hit by this blade. Saber perhaps use avalon to block it.
Rider is fast but

Spoiler for Manga:

She cannot dodge perfectly when Archer sniped her in manga

Lancer is partially immune to projectile weapons--if he can't see them then he can't block them--hrunting is a weapon that takes long to charge up and is to be used for long distance/sneak attack. So yes you are right, Lancer cannot block it--though in regular battles none of Archers weapons are capable of defeating Lancer when both hold nothing back.

As for Caster, Archer is capable of beating her with some strategy when her attention is distracted by Rider and Shirou(as demonstrated by the UBW route).

I was not considering sniping/sneak attacks when I wrote out the assumption, but I can't see a reason why Archer won't use such tactics if he really want to win...

I wonder why didnt archer use nine lives against Berserker then?? Illya did told them her servant true identity right??

Nine Lives was only aquired when Shirou actually abandons his own ambition to be the hero of justice and decided to be the hero of Sakura alone--Im not sure how, but I guess he acquired Nine Lives via the link of him and Berserker through Sakura. Archer on the another hand have never seen Nine Lives...allow me to read HF again to comfirm...

[Archer]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

Nine Lives was only aquired when Shirou actually abandons his own ambition to be the hero of justice and decided to be the hero of Sakura alone--Im not sure how, but I guess he acquired Nine Lives via the link of him and Berserker through Sakura. Archer on the another hand have never seen Nine Lives...allow me to read HF again to comfirm...

Assuming that Archer knew about Nine Lives Blade Works:

Nine Lives is not a weapon that could be used so casually. Wielding that large slab of rock is difficult in itself, but Archer's wounded body wouldn't be able to handle the strain of using that technique without having some serious consequences that could, at worst, kill him. Actually, he would still have problems even if he was at prime condition. Since Berserker was at his full strength (unlike Black Berserker, whose stats suffered under Sakura's control), using NLBW would actually give him the advantage, as Archer would be too heavily injured to put up a good fight. Therefore, it would probably be a last resort of sorts (although, considering how Archer was confident that he would win even before the battle began, it was a resort that Archer never really intended to use anyway).

Remember, Archer wasn't fighting that battle to destroy Berserker or to make them use up precious time. He was fighting to win (which was something different from just simply defeating Berserker), and to win he had adopt a strategy that would give him the greatest chance of success with the least amount of risk. While this is all speculation, this is something that Archer, a man who emphasizes efficiency over anything else, would probably come up with.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Archer

Assuming that Archer knew about Nine Lives Blade Works:

Nine Lives is not a weapon that could be used so casually. Wielding that large slab of rock is difficult in itself, but Archer's wounded body wouldn't be able to handle the strain of using that technique without having some serious consequences that could, at worst, kill him. Actually, he would still have problems even if he was at prime condition. Since Berserker was at his full strength (unlike Black Berserker, whose stats suffered under Sakura's control), using NLBW would actually give him the advantage, as Archer would be too heavily injured to put up a good fight. Therefore, it would probably be a last resort of sorts (although, considering how Archer was confident that he would win even before the battle began, it was a resort that Archer never really intended to use anyway).

Remember, Archer wasn't fighting that battle to destroy Berserker or to make them use up precious time. He was fighting to win (which was something different from just simply defeating Berserker), and to win he had adopt a strategy that would give him the greatest chance of success with the least amount of risk. While this is all speculation, this is something that Archer, a man who emphasizes efficiency over anything else, would probably come up with.

Many thanks for the explanation. That made soooooo much more sense when I try to spit things out from my memory...