Character Discussion - Kallen

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by yvj

What's sad was those tears of giving up she shed when he was being killed.

Spoiler for Kallen giving up:

This girl gave up, I have to agree. And darn a better proof is this crazy moment where she was yelling while the sword was piecing Lelouch.

(On a side note I'm bawing now. seriously, if you watch this screenshot + those of the scene where she is yelling, your day is wasted, BELIVE ME <_<)

And LOL Kakashi, good points.

And come on this girl is smart. I mean, Taniguchi said kallen realized she loved him after their kiss, and she said she gave up after her kiss.
Come on can't you see the level ? She is so damn fuckin' smart that she knows better than Taniguchi himself !
Genius, medium, patricia Arquette, whatever.

[Sonae]

Also, the thing with "geniuses" is that, while they may be really smart, they lack in the common sense category. Trust me, I know a walking calculator who has no common sense what so ever.

Kalulu kiss was sad, but that's cause it was also goodbye. I cried =(

[yvj]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

"Giving up"? I thought that those tears Kallen shed at the moment, were the most epic tears {after Turn 19}, since the man she loved was exactly, what she thoughts he was, originally. Combo, of Zero's real symbol + sexy Lulu = epicness
Those tears, are made of epic win. Actually, that is what dreams are made of. <--had to insert a Van Halen reference 8)
Goddamit Kallen, why so epic girl, why?

Huh but there was this fangirl who was "smarter" than you and who had "a good eye for theme recognition" that told me different.

Kallen's theme: So baby dry your eyes save all the tears you've cried oh, that's what dreams are made of Because we belong in a world that must be strong oh, that's what dreams are made of

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

And come on this girl is smart. I mean, Taniguchi said kallen realized she loved him after their kiss, and she said she gave up after her kiss.
Come on can't you see the level ? She is so damn fuckin' smart that she knows better than Taniguchi himself !
Genius, medium, patricia Arquette, whatever.

Ffff, like Kallen had not realized that, since Turn 9. Come on. |DD {and Turn 21, btw, too much of an angst scene in the beginning? Along with Guren in the background, symbolizing the step-forward? Nice shot Taniguchi}

I am telling you. Taniguchi knows shit. I mean, hell he made half of the show, but so what? There are people, who are always right and have TRAINED EYE, like, please. The trained eye, NEVER, ever misses.
It is like, Scarface in the end of the movie, only better. Because Tony, died without killing them all, that girl, can shoot them ALL with great accuracy. <--twin, instert our motivational poster here. LOL

"SAY HELLO, TO MY MY TRAINED EYE" <--canon.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

"SAY HELLO, TO MY MY TRAINED EYE" <--canon.

Spoiler for Trained eye:

I've got a trained eye for theme recognition! You f with me, you f-n' with the best!

[snowdevil_crow]

Wait. WHAT is going on here?

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

Wait. WHAT is going on here?

I don't know, i think they're talking about Kallen, but i'm totally lost, hehe.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow

Wait. WHAT is going on here?

Spoiler for The answer:

We're discussion Kallen in regards to the dichotomy of the Japanese female role in the coming 21st century. Does she stem to inherit the traditional form of the "personification of an idealized Japanese woman" in the historical context of the patriarchal, traditional culture of Japan. Or perhaps she is a new aberration brought on by the ebbing flow of Western culture

[Kid Ying]

Well, if it's for DA lulz, i understand. That's the reason for anything after all. And to be honest, it's quite lol material. I feel myself in a movie with Jean Claude Van Damme, he's talking, i just don't understand, but still is fun to watch.


Ah... Kallen roksss a lot!! Yeah, i'm on topic now.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by yvj

Spoiler for Trained eye:

I've got a trained eye for theme recognition! You f with me, you f-n' with the best!

If I could give you rep I would just because Scarface is that good.

[snowdevil_crow]

... ah. I see.

[CC]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

When you simple don't care that much, it's easy to transfer the anger you have for a fan to the character or series he love.

Exactly. It'd have been different if I loved the character, but I didn't. I had become neutral to her.

Originally Posted by incorrupts

And the other point, is, that there is a mantra that was going {still} around that "Kallen is a..well, not a nice girl because her fans are aggressive" <--makes no sense, whatsoever. Oh well, each one rolls differently.

I'm not sure what others say, but for me, the dislike for Kallen's personality comes from her behaviour at the end of R2. I don't want to get into a discussion as to why she did what she did, but I just want to say that I was disappointed. Pre-R2, I adored Kallen for her loyalty, I was all for a C.C. x Lelouch x Kallen END. Throughout R2 I became to feel more neutral to her over time, though she had her awesome moments - even if I love Suzaku, her smacking him around was pretty awesome. Destroying Luciano Bradley in his Percival along with his Valkyries was also fantastic.

However, especially near the end there when she seemingly chose to listen to others over Lelouch, when she decided she had to be the one to kill him... I wasn't happy. Again, I don't want to get into why Kallen was scripted to do these things because I have considered it and it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

My point is that those times where I've felt angsty and called Kallen, say... a bitch (Lolipopo should be familiar with this lolol), it wasn't just because of the fandom. It was the fandom or whatever else that had me annoyed, amplifying my annoyance, and causing me to "lash out" on the things I disliked about the character. Normally I'd like to avoid that type of thing because I don't really think it's fair, that's why I tend to keep my annoyance off of forums and what not and keep it to private discussions or occasionally my blog posts.

That said, in the end, I don't hate Kallen. Or even dislike her. Not now at least.

** Note that these examples/explanations are about times where I have felt annoyed with Kalulu fans or Kallen as a character, it is not current.

Oh and... I was really pleased to see her crying when Lelouch was killed. Not because of any spiteful reason, but just the way she reacted... it showed she still cared and I think as a character she needed that. If for whatever reason, the writers made her unresponsive, I think I'd be pretty annoyed.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by CC

However, especially near the end there when she seemingly chose to listen to others over Lelouch.

then i suppose you misunderstood the entire point of final arc then
both kallen's actions during it, and lelouch's
kallen didnt choose to listen to others over lelouch
she didnt become convinced lelouch must be stopped becouse of anything anyone else told her or any evidence anyone else presented her with
lelouch HIMSELF made her believe he was evil by systematiclly BECOMING (not pretending. becoming) everything she had ever fought against

lelouch was the one who laughed in her face on the ikaruga (that was the only time he did pretend)
lelouch was the one who became the emperor of britannia
lelouch was the one who joined forces with suzaku
lelouch was the one who started purging anyone in britannia who opposed his rule
lelouch was the one who started geassing an entire army into brainwashed slaves (what the OOBK feared he had done to them, here he did for real)
lelouch blew her off in ashford (during the one time when she gave him a chance to explain himself, almost begging him to in fact)
lelouch broke the peace talks and took kaguya and the UFN leaders hostage (and later on used them as human shields, which shocked kallen even more)
lelouch CONQUERED JAPAN AGAIN (the one goal she was fighting for during the entire show)
lelouch triggered a natural disaster to sink most of the OOBK's fleet (almost killing her and many of her friends)

its the complete 180 from what actually happened with the OOBK's betrayal in ep 19
lelouch commits crimes in secret
they heard evidence about his crimes without seeing his actions first hand
and based on those evidence they tried to kill him without giving him a chance to speak in his defense
kallen walked right up to him to give him a chance to speak (risking her life to do so) and lelouch stays silent rather then explain himself, and after she walks away he starts acting like a monster in full view of the entire world
he had became an even bigger monster then his father was in his actions (which was the entire point of the plan)

kallen became convinced that lelouch had either snapped after losing nunnaly
or that he had always been playing her for a fool and the man she loved was just a lie (which he basiclly told her to her face at one point)
and either way she vowed to be the one to take him down becouse she was the one who helped him get to where he was (protecting him, fighting for him, and hiding his secret from the other OOBK)
she vowed to be the one to kill him BECOUSE she was the one who loved him (nunnaly was operating on the exact same mind frame)

if you hate kallen becouse she opposed lelouch during the final arc
then you fail to grasp what a monster lelouch was acting like during it
this extends past the realm of "well intentioned extremist", and well into Necessarily Evil
which is why he planned to die from the get go, he knew he had to pay for it

lelouch was always walking on the thin line between anti-hero and villain protagonist
in the final arc he had both feet firmly planted in the latter side (a Necessarily Evil, Utopia-Justifies-The-Means type)

[CC]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

if you hate kallen becouse she opposed lelouch during the final arc

Please refer to this:

Originally Posted by CC

That said, in the end, I don't hate Kallen.

Also while we're at it...

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

then i suppose you misunderstood the entire point of final arc then...

lol

Originally Posted by CC

I don't want to get into a discussion as to why she did what she did

Originally Posted by CC

Again, I don't want to get into why Kallen was scripted to do these things because I have considered it and it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

Way to make an entirely pointless textwall. Anime fandom is about opinions, you have yours, I have mine. I don't need what a character did justified to me when I don't even have problems with said character, if you read my post I simply said that I was unhappy. Not that she was wrong.

[bladeofdarkness]

you opinion was based on wrongful interpretaion of cahracter actions and motives
which i pointed out
you are free to have your own opinion
but if you choose to express it
other are free to slap it down
especially if the basis of this opinion was formulated based on a wrongful interpretaion of motives and actions

aint democracy great

[CC]

Again, grats on completely ignoring nearly everything I said. You only read what you want to read~

[Kid Ying]

Blade, C.C stated her point pretty well, she got her opinion and that's it, she got the right to have her opinion and there's no such thing as wrong interpretation(unless it's something really way off), after all. Let's go home, cause this mission is over.

[Levy]

Mh, generally you might be right Blade, but the premise of CC's post is that she understood the reason why Kallen acted the way she did, and she's not blaming Kallen for that, simply, the role she's been given make her like Kallen less.

RIGHT/TRUE and WRONG/FALSE are fields in wich interpretations can be proved wrong.

LIKINGS/DISLIKING/PREFERENCES are fields in wich personal opinion/gut feeling owns it all. They might be altered by debate for the worst or the better, but they aren't per se right or wrong.

One should make this distinction more clear because the equiparation of the two is exactly the source of all the faction wars, claims of aggressivity and such.

[yezhanquan]

Truth be told, I think of Kallen mostly as a Knightmare pilot. After all, her suit is the rival of Suzaku's.

Personality-wise, she didn't quite grew on me. I don't know why. But of all the ladies, Nunnally was the one who had me rooting for her all the way.

"Service" was welcome, but yeah, apart from the memes, she's... there.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Blade, C.C stated her point pretty well, she got her opinion and that's it, she got the right to have her opinion and there's no such thing as wrong interpretation(unless it's something really way off), after all. Let's go home, cause this mission is over.

my argument is that it is

opinions cant be challanged
if CC came here and said "i dont like kallen" and left it at that
then its an opinion and i cant really attack it
i can disagree with it, but i cant really discredit it becouse its and opinion (like yezhanquan's post)
but if the opinion is BASED on character interpretaion which is fundamentally wrong....
i can challange that much

Originally Posted by CC

Again, grats on completely ignoring nearly everything I said. You only read what you want to read~

who are you calling fat