Aquarion EVOL - generic discussion thread

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

They're not. Only one did, when Amata awakened the false Aquarion, Kagura saw HIS OWN wings, because the memory is buried in his subconcious. Aquarion is HIS powers, he saw his own wings. That is why you did not see Apollon when he did it

Two words... MUGEN PUNCH

Only Apollonius/Apollo can do that.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Zuul

Some said that Mikage's talking about a flaxen-haired, golden-eyed dude when seemingly alluding to Amata, was refering to Amata's dad.

Or maybe Amata's eyes are originally golden but Mykage could have done something to him (suspiciously, he has that same eyecolor of the Altain guys who were affected by his flower petals). In the Ed image, he has thorns as Kagura does.

It seems that his ability to fly is from her mother, so it's backing more and more he's more of Apollonius/Apollon/Apollo's bloodline than a reincarnation. He also is suspiciously lacking visions in this episode.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Two words... MUGEN PUNCH

Only Apollonius/Apollo can do that.

In Aquarion Evol. But EVOL isn't the original Aquarion. Most likely, is one of the mass produced Aquarions produced based on poor Futuba who was a Shadow angel with, dun dun dun, wings in his feet like certain main character we know.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

OTOH, I'm not sure if I like how Zessica's character has been handled lately. It's fine for her to have some self-doubt and not be totally genki girl, but it almost feels like she's giving up without a fight here. I hope that she'll at least make a serious attempt to win Amata over soon.

Actually I liked how she's handled. She's backing off since she knows they have feelings for each others. How she apologized about the juice and tried to not create incidental strife is a good example. She would only make a serious move if Mikono doesn't want Amata.

That's pretty classy behavior so far. Which confirms when she was flirting in the past it was just trolling.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

In Evol. But EVOL isn't the original Aquarion. Most likely, is one of the mass produced Aquarions produced by Futuba who was a Shadow angel with, dun dun dun, wings in his feet like certain main character we know.

Futaba's feathers were only applied to the augmented pilots and remote pilot system.

As shown with the OVA where the mythological Aquarion was still undiscovered Deava used Assault Type Aquarions piloted by elements. And they called them Aquarions. The original is called Mythological Aquarion.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

As shown with the OVA where the mythological Aquarion was still undiscovered Deava used Assault Type Aquarions piloted by elements.

In the The OVA, yes.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Because of the past Mikono is friggin Emo (much like Sylvia in the OVA)

While I don't agree you with in everything, I do agree with you that Mikono is like OVA Sylvia and Kagura is almost identical to OVA Apollo (not so much to his series counterpart). If there are indeed multiple reincarnations of Apollo and Sylvia and parallel dimensions (which I hope not) rather than a mishmash AR, I'm betting Altair is more based on OVA (but Sylvia was somehow born in Vega because women population issue) and Vega more of TV series.

[germanturkey]

LoP, you've clarified a few things for me. i guess i should watch the first series. haha.

[miketyson]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

>Well I'm not the writer so I don't know what she intended, but "yurushite" as a short for "yurushiteageru" just... doesn't work. It doesn't work like that. I'm no native speaker so feel free to correct me, but I don't think a native speaker would even think of this option. Also, on a more practical note: with all in mind, and given the context, there's no way anyone, including Amata, would understand that "yurushite" as "yurushiteageru"...

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree 100% with what you're saying here.

Spoiler for Spoiled for length:

I'd flesh out "my" theory as this: the writer knows that Mikono actually meant the unlikely thing: "I forgive him. I have to apologize him." (So presumably last time around there was some big misunderstanding).

Writing ep6 the writer decides to be "clever", and just writes "yurushite", *knowing full well* that the audience *will* take it to be something like asking for forgiveness, and that no one in the audience would ever naturally interpret it to have the in-story "true" (albeit unusual, contrary-to-context) meaning. Writer thinks this is *clever* because on a rewatch, after all the big reveals have come in, the rewatchers will be like "a-ha! what she really meant was 'I forgive you', but who would've guessed that at the time?").

Up until now it's not too objectionable a decision: what Mikono said makes sense and seems natural in context, doesn't give away any strong hints about as-yet-unrevealed information, and the fact it "really" meant something other than what it looks like adds a bit of depth to subsequent re-viewings.

Then we hit episode 11 and (per this theory) we have Amata giving it the "true" interpretation (which, again, is in fact "true" in-universe, but would be an unusual way to interpret what he heard in the context in which he heard it...). Having Amata take it that way is clearly a mistake, but it's question of what type of mistake. It could be (1) that the writer just plain forgot what Amata'd heard back in episode 6, and this mistake made it past QC. It could also be (2), the writer knows what the "truth" is, but accidentally let that information "leak" into Amata (without having any in-story explanation for why Amata would know to interpret it in that unusual way).

If different writers had been credited for episodes 6 and episodes 11 I'd think (1) was almost certainly what happened. With the same writer responsible for both -- and with no credits for any intervening episodes, either -- I think there's at least some chance that (2) might be what happened.

So it's bad writing / a writer mistake however you slice it, and we're just discussing what type of mistake it is: is it a simple continuity error? or or is it accidentally leaking writer-knowledge into the characters? I guess in-show events will reveal the truth eventually.

Oof, that took a long time to type up.

There's actually a name for the kind of "cleverness" I was thinking of, and I found it: "garden path sentence". It covers sentences that're misleading until you hear the whole thing, like "the horse raced past the barn fell" or "the old man the boats"...the single-word sentence with an unusual intended interpretation isn't quite a garden path sentence, but it's similar in spirit...and in particular they'd both be meant to be misleading to the audience.

Oh, and for the record, I'm not native speaker either, and consider my language skills fairly mediocre. In particular they're more due to family circumstances than formal study, which means I have a lot of vocabulary gaps and unfamiliarity with a lot of the in vocabulary (particularly written forms), and certain families of sentence patterns. Picture a sphere of competence thinning out rapidly the further you get from the family kitchen...

Enough said on it, really. Sorry if I wasn't clearer with what I was saying earlier, I just got excited when I saw that Amata's line in ep 11 wasn't 100% coming out of nowhere, just 98% out of nowhere, give or take.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Actually I liked how she's handled. She's backing off since she knows they have feelings for each others. How she apologized about the juice and tried to not create incidental strife is a good example. She would only make a serious move if Mikono doesn't want Amata.

That's pretty classy behavior so far. Which confirms when she was flirting in the past it was just trolling.

But it wasn't just trolling, that's part of the problem. Zessica has given more than enough hints by now to indicate that she's genuinely interested in Amata. Why, there was even one such hint given in this episode when Zessica expressed a degree of jealousy over Mikono. That expression of jealousy makes no sense whatsoever unless Zessica is genuinely interested in Amata, and feels like Mikono is outdoing her in trying to win him over. If Zessica was just trolling this entire time, then that mirror scene in this episode doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, I don't buy this notion that you should just give up on a person you're attracted to and interested in, just because somebody else is also interested in that person. To me, that's not being "classy"; that's denying your own heart, which I think is usually a bad choice to make.

Sure, there comes a point when it would demonstrate a lack of class to engage in the romantic pursuit of a person that somebody else likes, but Amata/Mikono is not at that point yet. Also, it would be understandable for Zessica to give up on Amata if he had shown no interest in her, but he at the very least likes her as a friend and he clearly finds her attractive.


On a more personal note, I don't want Zessica to be this anime's version of True Tear's Aiko. I want her to be this anime's version of True Tear's Noe (since Mikono has the Hiromi role taken). I want an actual well-executed love triangle with good romance drama, dammit! This is much of what Mari Okada is known for, for crying out loud. It's one of the main things I was hoping and expecting to see in this anime, and we're not going to see it (at least not with the male lead in the middle) if Zessica gives up without a fight.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why, there was even one such hint given in this episode when Zessica expressed a degree of jealousy over Mikono. That expression of jealousy makes no sense whatsoever unless Zessica is genuinely interested in Amata, and feels like Mikono is outdoing her in trying to win him over. If Zessica was just trolling this entire time, then that mirror scene in this episode doesn't make any sense at all.

I don't think Thess is arguing that she's still trolling in this episode,but that she started out trolling in the first couple episodes she appeared in and then over time grew genuine feelings for Amata which she's now had for a little while.

On a more personal note, I don't want Zessica to be this anime's version of True Tear's Aiko.

Dude,if she was this anime's Aiko she wouldn't even be able to make Amata fly

I want an actual well-executed love triangle with good romance drama, dammit! This is much of what Mari Okada is known for, for crying out loud.

Even if she's known for this on this forum it still isn't what the majority of her work consists of,though like you I'd like to see it happen

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But it wasn't just trolling, that's part of the problem. Zessica has given more than enough hints by now to indicate that she's genuinely interested in Amata. Why, there was even one such hint given in this episode when Zessica expressed a degree of jealousy over Mikono. That expression of jealousy makes no sense whatsoever unless Zessica is genuinely interested in Amata, and feels like Mikono is outdoing her in trying to win him over. If Zessica was just trolling this entire time, then that mirror scene in this episode doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, I don't buy this notion that you should just give up on a person you're attracted to and interested in, just because somebody else is also interested in that person. To me, that's not being "classy"; that's denying your own heart, which I think is usually a bad choice to make.

Sure, there comes a point when it would demonstrate a lack of class to engage in the romantic pursuit of a person that somebody else likes, but Amata/Mikono is not at that point yet. Also, it would be understandable for Zessica to give up on Amata if he had shown no interest in her, but he at the very least likes her as a friend and he clearly finds her attractive.


On a more personal note, I don't want Zessica to be this anime's version of True Tear's Aiko. I want her to be this anime's version of True Tear's Noe (since Mikono has the Hiromi role taken). I want an actual well-executed love triangle with good romance drama, dammit! This is much of what Mari Okada is known for, for crying out loud. It's one of the main things I was hoping and expecting to see in this anime, and we're not going to see it (at least not with the male lead in the middle) if Zessica gives up without a fight.

I think what Thesis was referring to was all those episodes before she had a crush on Amata, not in this episode or the one after.

As for 'still have a chance'... Not from what I'm seeing currently. Amata is head over heels for Mikono, yes Zessica is still attactive to him, but I cant see/sense any of the hesitiation or uncertainty that usually plagues these kinds of situation... I mean, has he even taken the initative to see her once?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by totoum

I don't think Thess is arguing that she's still trolling in this episode,but that she started out trolling in the first couple episodes she appeared in and then over time grew genuine feelings for Amata which she's now had for a little while.

What went on for "a little while" was the trolling. Most of the gestures Zessica has made to Amata were and are genuine. Zessica has had serious feelings for Amata for a fair stretch of time now.

Dude,if she was this anime's Aiko she wouldn't even be able to make Amata fly

Amata would fly for almost any girl.

Even if she's known for this on this forum it still isn't what the majority of her work consists of,

A lot of her work is adaptation work, where she can't just throw in whatever she wants, of course.

But due to her work on anime originals, Okada has rightly earned a reputation for great romance drama. So it's only natural for viewers to expect that when watching anime originals wrote by her that at least have some romance in them.

It's not just True Tears that gives Okada this reputation (although that anime is the main reason why), but also AnoHana and Hanasaku Iroha to lesser extents.

though like you I'd like to see it happen

And this is precisely why I don't like how Zessica is being wrote lately. She's becoming too passive, too accepting of the status quo, imo. The romance in this anime is becoming far too straightforward for my liking.

[Guido]

I say this episode was everything from metaphorical, symbolic, and literal with all the meanings that Mikage delivered to free Kagura's spirit and be released as the beast of forbidden love.


I never watched the last OVA chapter, and I still uphold with many you out there that EVOL may be actually following the timeline after the OVA.

Spoiler:

Mikage's intent to awaken the Holy Genesis Aquarion machine through the forbidden union of love left by Apollon and Sylvie is to gather all the pieces for a revival, but definitely it's not for Vega.

And, what this episode hints from the ending sequence is coming up....

Spoiler:

Zessica sees through the mirror the memory of Apollon and Sylvie; Mikono taking the place as Sylvie.

Zessica's confused and feeling down and lost, because she's holding recent feelings for Amata, but he doesn't her with more attention than Mikono.

Could they were hinting at a connection with Zessica and her past self?

[Lord of Pandemonium]

^^ it's just like the OVA V V


Alright, I opened a can of worms here--- and honestly I really don't like to say much unless I have time to fully explain and honestly I have been squeeing so much, I haven't slept much...because I had no one to talk to about it and talking to myself was okay, but for the most part the conversation was one-sided because anything else would have been freaky and meant that I was bordering on insane



but I dont want to leave you hanging so I am just going to go through some parts of episode 11 and the OVA and Series and touch on some of the the things I said in the last two or three posts and the rest will take place after I get some sleep it's almost 1 am here and I have to get up at about 7 am...

Spoiler for some of my thoughts with screens and thumbnails. CLICK THE THUMBNAILS!!!:

Originally Posted by Thess

In the The OVA,.



While I don't agree you with in everything,

ah but you will grasshopper. I read your posts on episode 11 we agree on MOST things.

Originally Posted by Thess

. If there are indeed multiple reincarnations of Apollo and Sylvia and parallel dimensions (which I hope not) rather than a mishmash AR, .

Yes there are. Mikage says it in Evol, and Touma and Fudo say it in the OVA

"Do you know the term "Ichigo Ichie"?

"No it's not a belief, it really is something you will experience ONCE. Even if all the ingredients are the same, that tea will be different than any you've ever tasted before. AND it will be DIFFERENT than any tea you will taste in the future


"So what you're saying even if the Apollo is Apolloinous's reincarnation and Aquarion is revived.... the end result can still be different from the legend?!? "
(Apollo dreams of Fudo whom he's never met in the OVA)
"Past lives are the same! Power, wisdom, a soul which passes from life to life...it is a series of oceans and you are but a mere bubble in the ocean"



"remembered before"..

"Do you know how long I waited for this moment? How many times the moon has risen and fallen, how many times I've wept (he loses Apollonious in every lifetime)


"Following her warmth is a love that has been REBORN countless times"

Spoiler for Oh yeah:

that's KAGURA'S Flashback, they're in shadow, because his "eyes cannot see" he hasn't gotten his memories of the past back. Amata HAD NO FLASHBACKS OF HIS PAST. No flashback means=NOT the reincarnation. This has been established in the OS, OVA and now EVOL. Apollo had them, even if he forgot them later he still had them. Kagura has them and he's truly have the wings, the genesis light, he acts like Apollo, he looks like Apollo, he tracked "his women by her scent" Amata has done NONE of those things. All he did was awaken a false Aquarion oh and Mugen Punch but he hasn't done anything that says "Hey I'm Apollo" seriously Mugen Punch wasn't that big of deal like you guys are making it out to be. The "genesis light" was the big deal

Originally Posted by Thess

I'm betting Altair is more based on OVA (but Sylvia was somehow born in Vega because women population issue) and Vega more of TV series.

My theory is, Mykage was looking for Sylvie because he needs her to awaken Aqaurion. (Apollon doesn't love him enough to awaken for him. I will show you later today what I mean) When he learned that she wasn't on Altair but another world entirely, he fed the women of Altair to his garden because the one constant that hasn't changed is Mikage/Touma is sucking prana from the HUMAN women they abducted. That one constant has not changed. He needs HUMANS

Look at Altair. ...

Look at Mikage's room...


Does Altair really look like a place that a garden like this should bloom? They're being used for fertilizer

He cannot create such beauty only the "wingless ones" can nor can he live without Prana from HUMANS.

Spoiler for Um didn't anyone notice that:

Alisa has been turned into a plant? Edit...OMG SHE'S LITERALLY FOOD SHE'S CORN!!! She's food for his garden

It's metal but she's in a potted plant. It makes no sense to keep useless or dead women.

If his goal was to populate Altair then he'd want "used trash" because he knows that she's not infertile. But that is not is goal at all. He needed to find Sylvia and so he went into a stasis after putting the "idea" in the man's head to find those "Rare Iguras" . So they would find Silvia, because he's NOT looking for Apollo My guess is he kidnapped her but Kagura didn't react to her, so he knew she wasn't Silvia . Because in this life he doesn't have the abilty to recognize her.They're being used for fertilizer

Originally Posted by germanturkey

LoP, you've clarified a few things for me. i guess i should watch the first series. haha.

Yes you should, and please watch the OVA--all shall become clear after you watch it.

Because the thing I want you to understand, I am not being arrogant, I am not saying I know Aquarion better, when I asked a person if they watched the entire series + 2 OVA and if they did was it a really long time ago. Because I can tell when your memory is fuzzy. Aquarion is my first Mecha that I loved, and as much as I love Macross Frontier. It doesn't hold a candle to my love for Aquarion. It's just a lot older and I noticed that a lot of people didn't like it. Some didn't finish it. Some didn't find it that memorable, and some thought that it tried to be deep but it really was deep and it's a tragedy sur it has a lot of comedy and hijinks but that's what makes it all the more tragic. Seriously the ENTIRE cast dies in the OVA.

My memory is fresher because ...I watch it all the time That's all...

If you want an online stream or you want to direct download it. Let me know. I will upload or give you the link to them.

Tired but I wanted to leave you with this as food for thought

Spoiler for Let your brain feast on that...:

Because...

okay I am sorry for this post, but I was tired. I will explain it all but before I go I have to say

In short. They reincarnate, and it's a case of the more things are the same, the more things change

Apollon is an Angel of Massacre, I suspect that he might have actually killed Sylvie before. Or vice versa. So Kagura as he is now does not say that he's not Apollon. Because he can be good or bad, depends on the lifetime


I also suspect that Sylvia may have indulged in a little "selfcest" and that's the true reason love is forbidden

Oh and that little beast that you guys kept saying maybe Kagura was her little doggie..IT WAS A CAT....A "Neko". I will find a better pic of him later

(this also explains why Shu-Shu is an anti-AmataXMikono Shipper but didn't attack Kagura at all)

It's 3 am and this is not even up to my personal standards---yet it took 2 hours. I won't be able to fully explain until after 5pm today..ciao. I gotta get some sleep

[cyberdemon]

Spoiler for memories:

that's KAGURA'S Flashback, they're in shadow, because his "eyes cannot see" he hasn't gotten his memories of the past back. Amata HAD NO FLASHBACKS OF HIS PAST. No flashback means=NOT the reincarnation. This has been established in the OS, OVA and now EVOL. Apollo had them, even if he forgot them later he still had them. Kagura has them and he's truly have the wings, the genesis light, he acts like Apollo, he looks like Apollo, he tracked "his women by her scent" Amata has done NONE of those things. All he did was awaken a false Aquarion oh and Mugen Punch but he hasn't done anything that says "Hey I'm Apollo" seriously Mugen Punch wasn't that big of deal like you guys are making it out to be. The "genesis light" was the big deal

Spoiler for memories:

Problem is that Kagura's "memories" can't be deemed conclusive since they are caused by Mikage messing with his mind. It could just be things Mikage WANTED him to see to make him believe that he actually was the reincarnation.

However if it is real then it's becomes likely Zessica is the reincarnation since she was able to view the memories. As you said memories= reincarnation. Zessica seems to be the only one who saw those supposed memories besides Kagura. Mikono has shown no memories of Silvia. Who knows what her feelings of guilt are from.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Spoiler for Want yea or nay?:

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Spoiler for memories:

Problem is that Kagura's "memories" can't be deemed conclusive since they are caused by Mikage messing with his mind. It could just be things Mikage WANTED him to see to make him believe that he actually was the reincarnation.

However if it is real then it's becomes likely Zessica is the reincarnation since she was able to view the memories. As you said memories= reincarnation. Zessica seems to be the only one who saw those supposed memories besides Kagura. Mikono has shown no memories of Silvia. Who knows what her feelings of guilt are from.

Mikono's negativity reminded me of TV Reika. Only her brother has Reika's power.

Zessica having third person perspective reminds me of OVA Reika whose the reincarnation of Scorpius.

[Zuul]

LOP :

I find your theory about Mikage using Altean women as fertilizer very convincing.

He's even worse than I though.

You've also pratially convinced me that Amata is another Silvie.


There are 2 dimensions, so why not 2 Sylvie.

Mikono and Amata have similar personnalities. In episode 01/02, Amata said something about just not wanting to watch destiny but actually participate to it, which would fit Sylvie's character more than Appollon.

And it could even explain the lack of odor thing. It's not that Amata doesn't have a smell, he just happens to have the same one as Mikono and Kagura mistakes it thinking it's not his own but just Mikono having rubbing some of hers on him.

The wings could be easily explained by Amata being one of the descendant. Like Sylvia actually.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What went on for "a little while" was the trolling. Most of the gestures Zessica has made to Amata were and are genuine. Zessica has had serious feelings for Amata for a fair stretch of time now.

To me she realised her own feelings at the end of episode 8,she might have had serious feelings about him before but she doesn't admit it to herself before then.

A lot of her work is adaptation work, where she can't just throw in whatever she wants, of course.

Well I was taking that into account when I said that but then again despite Canaan,Fractale,Black butler II,Black Rock shooter being anime originals most of them are based on an already established franchises while the 3 you mentioned are not so you score a point there.

And this is precisely why I don't like how Zessica is being wrote lately. She's becoming too passive, too accepting of the status quo, imo. The romance in this anime is becoming far too straightforward for my liking.

I don't think her passiveness will last,of course I've got nothing to prove this lol so we'll see.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What went on for "a little while" was the trolling. Most of the gestures Zessica has made to Amata were and are genuine. Zessica has had serious feelings for Amata for a fair stretch of time now.

If they were real indications she was attracted to Amata in, say, episode 5. The ring would have show some reaction. It showed none. She seemed to become a little interested since episode 7 and seriously since episode 8, where she became aware of it. Thus, her previous flirting was trolling. Immediately after she realized she was interested in Amata, she backed off, only murmured to Mikono she would take him if she didn't want him.

Look, she tried to troll in this one and back-pedaled immediately.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Spoiler for memories:

Problem is that Kagura's "memories" can't be deemed conclusive since they are caused by Mikage messing with his mind. It could just be things Mikage WANTED him to see to make him believe that he actually was the reincarnation.

However if it is real then it's becomes likely Zessica is the reincarnation since she was able to view the memories. As you said memories= reincarnation. Zessica seems to be the only one who saw those supposed memories besides Kagura. Mikono has shown no memories of Silvia. Who knows what her feelings of guilt are from.

Spoiler for oh yeah:

This is a good point. Mikono didn't see any memories. She saw Kagura in Amata's reflection, which could be because she has been thinking about him earlier (and so did Amata).

The two who actually saw the same memories were Zessica and Kagura.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by Thess

If they were real indications she was attracted to Amata in, say, episode 5. The ring would have show some reaction. It showed none. She seemed to become a little interested since episode 7 and seriously since episode 8, where she became aware of it. Thus, her previous flirting was trolling. Immediately after she realized she was interested in Amata, she backed off, only murmured to Mikono she would take him if she didn't want him.

Look, she tried to troll in this one and back-pedaled immediately.

I don't think the ring is really indicative of anything. Mikono's ring didn't react at all until they had their little moment on the building roof.

However, in that episode, Zessica made a really sour face when Amata left her to run after Mikono.

I wouldn't exclude her already having some sort of feelings at that moments, she wasn't just aware of them. She started withdrawing herself only when she realized what they were.

My own interpretation.

I would also like to see Zessica makes a move, but her being so passive at the moment proves she is a decent girl. Maybe this little vision is going to trigger something. It would be lame to have her feeling for Amata and yet never act on it.

[dark44]

in episode 11 they say they search foe eve and they take alicia didnt amata and jin and kagura are nearly the same age so who is jin and kagura mother and why searching for eve and they have woman pregnant with jin?

[Sixth]

Is Izumo Amata's father?