Maria-sama ga Miteru 4th - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Proto]

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You might want to use them, but maybe you got some of those evil French keyboards that don't evil have points and commas.

[Droplet]

It'll be very hard to top this episode. The pacing kept me at the edge of my seat, but at the same time told me to sit back and relax.

Here we see Touko from a more intimate perspective. A stellar installment. 10/10. I could be out on a leg here but that was more intense than what I've seen from the novel translations.

"You keep running away, but you want to be caught." <3

[Kaoru Chujo]

I've never liked Touko before. But now I get it. Sometimes we can't help doing things that hurt us, and we have to learn new ways of being.

I agree that this was one of the best eps of the season, but I've been away and had to catch up by watching three episodes in a row, and they were all good. This is just a good series, period.

[xris]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

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[Kylaran]

I've really enjoyed the past few episodes of MariMite, but did anyone find Touko's reactions this episode to be a bit incredulous? I mean, from a viewer's stand point some of those animations of her face were very, very dramatic. Dramatic to the point that it was hard to believe in their authenticity.

Nevertheless, I quickly forgot about those few moments of drama and enjoyed the rest of the show. Just wondering if I was the only one that felt this way about some parts to this episode.

[inisipis]

Originally Posted by Kylaran

I've really enjoyed the past few episodes of MariMite, but did anyone find Touko's reactions this episode to be a bit incredulous? I mean, from a viewer's stand point some of those animations of her face were very, very dramatic. Dramatic to the point that it was hard to believe in their authenticity.

.

Perhaps Touko just can't turn-off being a Drama Queen, even when she is being true to herself. I guess being in the Drama club has it's drawbacks.

But, you're right i find the Touko her more expressive and more emotional than the norm, that it's quite surprising to those who watched her in the past. I guess she's been keeping inside all her sadness and fears for such a long time , it overwhelms her and at this episode the Dam finally burst.

[4Tran]

I've been on a bit of a shoujo anime binge (30 episodes of Utena in three days) lately, but Marimite still hits a high note relative to that. I'm really quite pleased with the way Touko dug herself deeper into a hole before realizing just how self-destructive she's been. Her reasons for turning Yumi's offer was what I thought, but the creators did a very nice job of putting that into words and pictures. It's nice to see everyone - Sachiko, Suguru, and especially Yumi - finally get angry at her for how she's been behaving. I imagine that Touko is going to feel obligated to do a bit of grovelling to get back into Yumi's good graces; and given what we've seen with the "count to a hundred", it's pretty clear who's going to be figuratively wearing the pants in that relationship .

Overall, I especially appreciate all the nice little touches of nonverbal communication that's in the show. This episode does a little more with little gestures, but it's been very well handled all season. I feel that these touches do way more to establish meaning than most other shows can aspire to.

I also have to commend Kugimiya Rie's acting in this episode. I haven't been all that fond of her other recent work, but she's been excellent in Marimite so far.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Question: why would the three ojou know, but not Sachiko?

Quite simply, the others are obsessed with status and actively look for ways to bring down those who seem to challenge it. Sachiko never gave a damn about status so she never pried into the affairs of the Matsudairas (and of course, wouldn't really care even if she knew).

Originally Posted by Kylaran

I've really enjoyed the past few episodes of MariMite, but did anyone find Touko's reactions this episode to be a bit incredulous? I mean, from a viewer's stand point some of those animations of her face were very, very dramatic. Dramatic to the point that it was hard to believe in their authenticity.

The overly dramatic reaction has been a staple of shoujo manga/anime pretty much from the beginning. It's not for everyone, but it's actually more restrained than some older shoujo like Oniisama e. In this case, I think that it's well warranted given the depths of Touko's realization, and how much her little world/facade have shattered. She used to be able to convince herself that she was the victim in this whole affair, but that's no longer an option - and something like that has got to hurt.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I've been on a bit of a shoujo anime binge (30 episodes of Utena in three days) lately, but Marimite still hits a high note relative to that. I'm really quite pleased with the way Touko dug herself deeper into a hole before realizing just how self-destructive she's been. Her reasons for turning Yumi's offer was what I thought, but the creators did a very nice job of putting that into words and pictures. It's nice to see everyone - Sachiko, Suguru, and especially Yumi - finally get angry at her for how she's been behaving. I imagine that Touko is going to feel obligated to do a bit of grovelling to get back into Yumi's good graces; and given what we've seen with the "count to a hundred", it's pretty clear who's going to be figuratively wearing the pants in that relationship .

She may feel the obligation, but I think Yumi will forgive her relatively easily, once she knows what that was about. In fact, I think there's good chance she may blame herself for blundering to the situation blindly.

Suguru isn't really angry at Touko. He knows what she's doing to herself and he's worried for her.

Sachiko will be the hardest sale. No matter what the circumstances, Touko hurt her beloved little sister pretty bad.

[agila61]

Originally Posted by Kylaran

I've really enjoyed the past few episodes of MariMite, but did anyone find Touko's reactions this episode to be a bit incredulous? I mean, from a viewer's stand point some of those animations of her face were very, very dramatic. Dramatic to the point that it was hard to believe in their authenticity.

Nevertheless, I quickly forgot about those few moments of drama and enjoyed the rest of the show. Just wondering if I was the only one that felt this way about some parts to this episode.

But she's been wearing her "mask" for a long time

Spoiler for ep11:

... as we learn in this episode in part in reaction to taunting from the rich girls the cluster jealously around Sachiko ...

... its fairly realistic that when the dam breaks on a long-suppressed pain, the original pain is relived.

Its not in character with "the perfect little actress", but its in character with the reason why she became the perfect little actress.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She may feel the obligation, but I think Yumi will forgive her relatively easily, once she knows what that was about. In fact, I think there's good chance she may blame herself for blundering to the situation blindly.

Precisely. And that's also why it makes for such compelling drama. Yumi's nature is such that she wouldn't care about what Touko's apology entailed, or even if she made one. All Yumi would care about is Touko's sincerity. Touko's nature is quite different, and she simply wouldn't be comfortable without making some sort of grand gesture. And it's in these two dichotomies where all the fun lies - we know that Yumi is so easy-going that she wouldn't really care what Touko does, but the latter is going to go all out because she doesn't know that (and because she doesn't really function that way). And really, if Yumi took any pleasure in Touko's grovelling, then it would seem vindictive, and it'd be harder for it to be fun.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Sachiko will be the hardest sale. No matter what the circumstances, Touko hurt her beloved little sister pretty bad.

Nah, Sachiko is only angry for Yumi's sake, and as long as Yumi is fine with it, she would be as well.

[Mentar]

This was the single best episode in the MariMite universe in a long long LOOOONG while. Awesome. A 9.5 in my book, and I'm extremely stingy with anything above 8.

So many things done right.

o They gave Touko a credible backstory for her behavior

o Finally the "old" Yumi from seasons 1/2 reemerges

o Even Sachiko finally gave one of her trademark withering glares. Her all-soft-and-kind elder oneesama always felt a little off to me. It's good to get a glimpse on her steel beneath after all.

o Nice symbolisms in the technical handling. The counting, the gradual desertion...

o I always liked Noriko alot due to her independence and resilience. Here, she picked up some extra brownie points with me.

o Let the healing begin...

Wonderful stuff, looking forward to 12+13 alot.

[Maceart]

As sad as I am that it's only going to be 13 episodes, this episode made me drop my mouth in awe due to its amazing plot handling and characterization.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Mentar

o Finally the "old" Yumi from seasons 1/2 reemerges

I don't really think that it's the old Yumi at all. Her mannerisms are fairly toned down from the old Yumi, and she exhibited a restrained disappointment towards Touko that we've never seen before. It seems to me more as if she's showing off more of the kind of character she's growing into than anything else. This new Yumi is very similar to the old one in terms of values and what not, but she's also a lot more capable of taking things in stride.

Originally Posted by Mentar

o Even Sachiko finally gave one of her trademark withering glares. Her all-soft-and-kind elder oneesama always felt a little off to me. It's good to get a glimpse on her steel beneath after all.

She just hasn't had as much chance to use it in quite a while. You can chalk it up to a mollifying influence from Yumi.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Wonderful stuff, looking forward to 12+13 alot.

I have to agree with that; and I really wish that some more shows would go to similar lengths of character and mood work. The facial expressions in Marimite have been top-notch all along, but they're done even better in this episode. Unfortunately, this seems to be very hard to accomplish, so there isn't more of this kind of richness of material.

[Sinestra]

I really need subs for this episode i had hard time following i really need to brush up on my Japanese more.

I thought this bit of news was pretty cool

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...issho-ni-manga

[gokigenyou]

I loved this episode. Probably my favorite of all the episodes, in fact.
We finally got some great insight on Touko, and finally got to see her without her mask.

I thought this was also the best animated episode. The facial expressions, the constant body-movement... usually, alot of anime series will have lots of motion, but bad character design. Or, good clean character design, but the animation is very static. I was really surprised (and pleased) to see that we saw alot of motion (watch Touko in the drama club room, for example) that was still well animated.

I give this episode 10 gokigenyou's!

[Sinestra]

Another emotionally charged episode and i think it was delivered perfectly. Touko's secret is out and those of us that knew kept quiet about it which i like since it was part of the emotional experience and a huge chunk of why Touko is the way she is. But her parents love her like she was their real daughter. Very few people knew the situation surrounding Touko's birth and i believe her parents wanted it that way they never wanted her to feel she was adopted she is their daughter in ever sense of the word. There is a lesson here for people who keep things bottled up it effects others around you even if you dont notice it and when it come bursting forth its the like flood gates have opened. Even Sachiko didn't know and much to a very shocked and very emotional Touko.

I wouldn't call Touko jaded but her birth and constant conflicting feelings really puts her on edge. Once again she lashes out at Yumi in front Maria-sama (i love how most of the important conversations are done in front of her). She once again misunderstands Yumi's intentions and goes back to the angry spiteful Touko speaking without listening rarely ends well, we have seen and heard all this before. What made this scene so great was of course Yumi, who has matured at an alarming rate since the events around Christmas. Yumi taught Touko a lesson by telling her to count to 100 and keep her eyes closed. The result was Touko realized how very much alone she was this event only reinforced what Kashiwagi told Touko "If you keep running one day no one will chase you" I cant stress how true these words are. I felt this whole episode was just a giant eye opener for Touko.

Its been a while since we have heard such harsh words and tone from Sachiko. But when it comes to protecting Yumi Sachiko is all business. That look she displayed while setting Touko straight said so much. Touko finally understood that Yumi knows her and cares for her more than she could have ever thought. Yumi knew nothing of her families circumstances but just pointed out that whatever was going on with her doesn't matter her feelings will not and would not change and as usual Touko misread what she was trying to say. When Sachiko said she felt for sorry for Yumi for always worrying about Touko i think that was the nail in the coffin and finally that little light bulb in Toukos head went off. The result was a rush of emotion and regret and her finally realizing that even before the audience was aware of Yumi's feelings for her it had started long ago when she first caught a glimpse of Yumi when she first became Sachiko's en bouton. The link is great because it shows that Yumi and Touko have been connected for a lot longer than everyone thinks and Touko now is just realizing what all those weird feelings she was having were. She was scared of Yumi but in a way it was more like being in awe of someone or being drawn to them.

I was happy that Noriko came along and so was Touko who for the first time can admit that she does not want to be alone she does not like being alone and watching her have a good cry and let it all out i couldnt help but to think it was long over due. Noriko is a great person to support Touko at the moment because i feel that she cares for Touko as much as Yumi does and Norioko has shown that she can be super supportive even when Touko is not cooperative.

I suspect that we will have further developments as the card race begins and im sure that Touko will enter the race which is funny because its a race to find a card but instead of running away Touko would running towards something namely Yumi.

Great episode 10/10

[Avacado Burger]

Wow, what an amazing outburst of emotion that came out under Touko's mask! This episode was incredible, and completely changed the way I look at her.
I can completely relate though; having someone think so highly of you, while you think so lowly of yourself... You end up pushing everyone away until there is no one left. It was refreshing to see this kind of story done in such a compelling manner.

And I've never really cared for Kugimiya Rie's work, since they always pigeonhole her into the bitchy, bipolar roles; but her as Touko this season wants me to shower her with the respect knuckles!

[arleen3]

Definitively this is one of my favorite episoses and I have to say that I kinda cried a little bit

[Sorrow-K]

They've done a good job at actually making Touko sympathetic, since she's not exactly an easy character to sympathize with.

A good episode, but not as elegant as some of the episodes that have come before it (I thought it was a little on the predictable side).